abs fault, twice, blew 10amp running light fuse twice, hit the taillights to turn on

[SethO]

SO Yeah, good day to ride going thru my usual death race and the abs fault comes up when I was braking for a corner, not as hard as I have but I get off, push the relays back in and its fine first corner, does it again.

Stop get off reset relays release parking brake pull it back because it does not seem to be disengaging (this is by the back wheel) and it faults again.

shut it off, wait till the parking brake is reset release it and start the bike, works pull the brake a few times , load the wheelchair back up again and when I use the brake hard again, abs fault.

My brother in law gets on it I spray down the parking brake (went on some dirt roads, thought I got something stuck somewhere again) he puts it into gear (se5) gives it some gas and it dies, will not start, the running light fuse blew. After figuring that out he gets on it, rides it and has no problem. Fixed right well

Take off to beat a tornado warning home, 70 miles at night, realize that somewhere around 30 miles I have no running lights or brake lights, the turn siginals work. Get home and the running lights (F7, 10 amp) is blown again, I put a 15 amp in and check the wires on the front running light that has been screwed up from the deer hit and the wires from the not longer there license plate light, both fine.

Start the bike and it starts, the running lights in the back are not on, I hit the back tail and they turn on and everything works, brakes lights, all of it, WTF.

Are the brake lights going out? what would cause this problem, I have nothing extra electrical except for the JB.

Damn this is annoying.

 

[NancysToy]

Sounds like a short somewhere. They can be difficult to find. Best of luck in your search. Be mighty careful with substituting a larger fuse. You are likely to eventually damage more wiring that way...and you certainly don't need a fire.

 

[retired1]

Grief

Sorry I can't be of more help to you buddy. Scotty's suggestions sound like the best idea. I think I remember a post about someone worrying aout the wire to the tailight rubbing on some piece of metal o the back of the bike. That is the only sugestion I can add.

 

[SethO]

after looking thru I am getting a set of the pep boys led's to see if it will hold up with the 10amp fuse, all though it does not make sense with the 15 amp fuse in the running lights slot the brakes seem better. IF I had know that I would have smashed a 45amp in there and had rocket style brakes.

 

[gjco]

do you keep your spyder outside? drop the tail pan and look at the wires sounds like the mouse that got me might have move in to your area. you are have the same problems that I had to the TEE. My bet is up inside the tail pan.

 

[docdoru]

do you keep your spyder outside? drop the tail pan and look at the wires sounds like the mouse that got me might have move in to your area. you are have the same problems that I had to the TEE. My bet is up inside the tail pan.

:agree: or trace the wire from the brake switch to the cover on the right side of the swing arm...opcorn:

 

[SethO]

:agree: or trace the wire from the brake switch to the cover on the right side of the swing arm...opcorn:

I will check that out

do you keep your spyder outside? drop the tail pan and look at the wires sounds like the mouse that got me might have move in to your area. you are have the same problems that I had to the TEE. My bet is up inside the tail pan.

I park inside, I think it was the major sand where I had to wash my spyder that maybe got something screwed up. I will check.

Thanks guys.

 

[bjt]

Most likely, a bad bulb would not cause fuses to blow. Substituting the standard bulbs with LEDs probably will not solve your problem. It is more likely to be a wiring issue, similar to what retired1 says, a wire has the insulation pinched, cut or rubbed through and the bare wire is contacting metal somewhere. Substituting the standard fuse for a bigger amperage one will eventually cause the wire to be the fuse and burn itself open where it's shorting out. That is a potential way to find the bad section of wire but it's not a good way. It could be very expensive if it burned up a section of a wiring harness or your whole Spyder.

Start the bike and it starts, the running lights in the back are not on, I hit the back tail and they turn on and everything works, brakes lights, all of it, WTF.

If you bump on the tail piece and the lights work, start looking hard at the wires back there to see what wires can be jostled by vibration to contact metal. Any section of wiring that moves when hitting the tailpiece could be damaged and a bared hot wire could be touching a bared ground wire or grounded metal. Also, check any connectors that may be loose and can bounce around from what they are supposed to be connected to (light sockets or plugs) to touching metal or an uninsulated section of ground wire. Finding something like this could be as easy as seeing an obviously damaged section of wire or a loose connection when looking in the undertail pan area. It could also be as hard as having the damaged wire in a hidden spot where a slight metal rub has worn away insulation over time. You may have to find the wires where they attach to the lights that don't work and inspect them while tracing them back until you find the problem.

 

[NancysToy]

Most likely, a bad bulb would not cause fuses to blow. Substituting the standard bulbs with LEDs probably will not solve your problem. It is more likely to be a wiring issue, similar to what retired1 says, a wire has the insulation pinched, cut or rubbed through and the bare wire is contacting metal somewhere. Substituting the standard fuse for a bigger amperage one will eventually cause the wire to be the fuse and burn itself open where it's shorting out. That is a potential way to find the bad section of wire but it's not a good way. It could be very expensive if it burned up a section of a wiring harness or your whole Spyder.


If you bump on the tail piece and the lights work, start looking hard at the wires back there to see what wires can be jostled by vibration to contact metal. Any section of wiring that moves when hitting the tailpiece could be damaged and a bared hot wire could be touching a bared ground wire or grounded metal. Also, check any connectors that may be loose and can bounce around from what they are supposed to be connected to (light sockets or plugs) to touching metal or an uninsulated section of ground wire. Finding something like this could be as easy as seeing an obviously damaged section of wire or a loose connection when looking in the undertail pan area. It could also be as hard as having the damaged wire in a hidden spot where a slight metal rub has worn away insulation over time. You may have to find the wires where they attach to the lights that don't work and inspect them while tracing them back until you find the problem.

Well explained, Brian. It always pays to listen to the electrician that does this kind of stuff for a living. :thumbup:

 

[SethO]

Most likely, a bad bulb would not cause fuses to blow. Substituting the standard bulbs with LEDs probably will not solve your problem. It is more likely to be a wiring issue, similar to what retired1 says, a wire has the insulation pinched, cut or rubbed through and the bare wire is contacting metal somewhere. Substituting the standard fuse for a bigger amperage one will eventually cause the wire to be the fuse and burn itself open where it's shorting out. That is a potential way to find the bad section of wire but it's not a good way. It could be very expensive if it burned up a section of a wiring harness or your whole Spyder.


If you bump on the tail piece and the lights work, start looking hard at the wires back there to see what wires can be jostled by vibration to contact metal. Any section of wiring that moves when hitting the tailpiece could be damaged and a bared hot wire could be touching a bared ground wire or grounded metal. Also, check any connectors that may be loose and can bounce around from what they are supposed to be connected to (light sockets or plugs) to touching metal or an uninsulated section of ground wire. Finding something like this could be as easy as seeing an obviously damaged section of wire or a loose connection when looking in the undertail pan area. It could also be as hard as having the damaged wire in a hidden spot where a slight metal rub has worn away insulation over time. You may have to find the wires where they attach to the lights that don't work and inspect them while tracing them back until you find the problem.

Got it, I am going to tear into the back, it just does not make sense that the brakes do work better with a 15 amp fuse, I would like to know if its just me, so if someone without a brake problem wants to put a 15amp in the running lights so they can say its just your craziness getting the best of you.

 

[NancysToy]

Got it, I am going to tear into the back, it just does not make sense that the brakes do work better with a 15 amp fuse, I would like to know if its just me, so if someone without a brake problem wants to put a 15amp in the running lights so they can say its just your craziness getting the best of you.

If the brake lights are out, and you have an ABS/VSS fault, it could affect the way the VCM engages the brakes. Just a wild guess, but I would think it would be possible. Cure your wiring problem and there will probably be no difference between 10 amp and 15 amp fuses.

 

[SpyderFun]

Got it, I am going to tear into the back, it just does not make sense that the brakes do work better with a 15 amp fuse, I would like to know if its just me, so if someone without a brake problem wants to put a 15amp in the running lights so they can say its just your craziness getting the best of you.

IF any electrical system is running fine with no problem then NO FUSE IS NEEDED (direct wiring from power source to component), BUT fuses are designed to add circuit protection (wires and components) to prevent further damage and at a very specific amp rating using "electrical math".

Intermittent electrical faults are the WORSE to troubleshoot because if you can't duplicate the problem, you cannot fix it!!!

I have never seen a direct fault to ground that would not blow the highest rated fuse each and every time. But Seth you have a system that appears to function by upping the amp rating of the fuse. I suspect there is a poor connection somewhere in the circuit that is causing additional, and unintended, resistance for which the higher rated fuse is able to overcome this added resistance (for now). An example would be lights that seem "dimmer than normal".

I have seen electrical connectors on aircraft that had just a small amount of corrosion and made the circuit completely inoperable; cleaned the corrosion off and PRESTO - works as advertised! You may also have a loose "connector" or "wire" which maybe the cause of the short but does so only at a specific angle or applied force.

Good Luck & hope this helps with the troubleshooting!

 

[SethO]

IF any electrical system is running fine with no problem then NO FUSE IS NEEDED (direct wiring from power source to component), BUT fuses are designed to add circuit protection (wires and components) to prevent further damage and at a very specific amp rating using "electrical math".

Intermittent electrical faults are the WORSE to troubleshoot because if you can't duplicate the problem, you cannot fix it!!!

I have never seen a direct fault to ground that would not blow the highest rated fuse each and every time. But Seth you have a system that appears to function by upping the amp rating of the fuse. I suspect there is a poor connection somewhere in the circuit that is causing additional, and unintended, resistance for which the higher rated fuse is able to overcome this added resistance (for now). An example would be lights that seem "dimmer than normal".

I have seen electrical connectors on aircraft that had just a small amount of corrosion and made the circuit completely inoperable; cleaned the corrosion off and PRESTO - works as advertised! You may also have a loose "connector" or "wire" which maybe the cause of the short but does so only at a specific angle or applied force.

Good Luck & hope this helps with the troubleshooting!

thanks, I just pulled all the plastics off and all the wiring was still cased and everything is still hooked up I put the 10 amp back in and it working but the brakes are NOT as touchy as they were, WTF!!!! I am going on a 70 mile adventure and I am going to see if I can make them pop again. I could not agree more that a inconsistant problem is more frustrating. There is some corrosion on the positive that come off the battery and goes to the silver circle (for the turn signal I think) under the rear seat, I will clean that off and see if there is a difference. The lights do not seem any dimmer but i will check that. I also have 2 leaking head gaskets and both dealerships brainerd and st cloud (where I bought it) both go just a message left.

 

[Wheelz]

I'm having the same exact problem. Running lights but no brake lights...VSS/ABS comes on when coming hard into a turn...when you find the problems..let us know....:thumbup:

 

[SethO]

so I put the led pep boys tail lights in made by pilotautomotive and one did not have the right amount of soter on it so the bottom spun and blew out a bulb I can not get locally and both of my stock bulbs do not have running light filiments so FML, I did cut the lights back to you can change them on the road but what a pain in the ass when you are wheelchairing it up. Swearing out loud style.

 

[SethO]

DAMN IT, abs fault

Ok WTF, I go on a few rides no more problems, went to mentor 70 miles from the town of dirt, no problems, replaced both running lights. the pipe side has a regular bulb and the other has a led, the pipe blew what I thought was a bad bulb (had a hole in it) well I let a few people ride it and then left this is slab freeway so I was going 80-105 until I got gas killed the motor put the key back on like I do everytime and when to start it and nothing, the running lights are off. HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH, so I have some kids replace the 15amp with an extra 10 amp, its starting to get wet now got 20 miles to dirt town 5 miles down the road the running lights go out again.

The fun begins, I hit the WORST rain I have ever rode in EVER, half a inch of water on the road, nanny is kicking in non stop for 2 miles, NO running lights, going to work, lucky I had my aerostich jacket (made in AmerICA) but the rest of me was soaked. hit the brakes at a light EPIC ABS failure, limp mode, rain is slightly less and is the suck.

What the hell is going on with multiple spyders in different areas having this electrical problems????? BRP reading this?

I mean I am hard on my stuff and if something breaks it breaks, but this is redick us. I mean not starting because of running lights?

The break issue has to be something from the gravel road I rode down that made me wash my spyder. I do not get a fault code but I am going in on wednesday for the value cover issue, can the fault code ID the area on the spyder doing the ABS fault?

 

[NancysToy]

Sounds more to me like you may have a bad, loose, or shorted (from gravel and water) wiring harness connector to the rear, although something must work if the nanny kicked in. Multiple, unrelated problems usually have a common cause. You (or the dealer) need to track the common thread. Off the top of my head, the only thing that would affect both running lights and ABS would be the wiring to the rear of the machine. Please note that it is also possible to have separate, unrelated problems, but looking for what they have in common is a good place to start.

 

[krb1945]

SethO, I know you said you re-seated the relays in the beginning and it started working again. The symptoms you are describing are indicative of a loose relay, plug/wire connection or damaged wire shorting to ground. Ok... now we've looked at the probable causes. Back to the relays... if the relays are loosening up and reseating them works for a few minutes. I suspect the the foam that is in the top of the relay box must be compressing enough to allow the e relays vibrate loose. I had this happen more than once. I took a 3/4 inch wide by appriximately 3/8ths thick by length of the fuse box lid of soft foam... put it in the lid and it stopped them from loosening because there is direct pressure on the relays. Be careful putting the lid on because it will be real tight and a bear to get the little latches to catch. You may consider using a thinner foam thickness.

A relay making and breaking, or arcing and a sparking as the old timers use to say, will blow fuses and cause many other random problems.

Buddy, I wish your location were closer to me... I could fix your relay/fuse box and trace those wires for you in just a few minutes. Good luck and please ride 'em safely! Ken krb1945

 

[NancysToy]

SethO, I know you said you re-seated the relays in the beginning and it started working again. The symptoms you are describing are indicative of a loose relay, plug/wire connection or damaged wire shorting to ground. Ok... now we've looked at the probable causes. Back to the relays... if the relays are loosening up and reseating them works for a few minutes. I suspect the the foam that is in the top of the relay box must be compressing enough to allow the e relays vibrate loose. I had this happen more than once. I took a 3/4 inch wide by appriximately 3/8ths thick by length of the fuse box lid of soft foam... put it in the lid and it stopped them from loosening because there is direct pressure on the relays. Be careful putting the lid on because it will be real tight and a bear to get the little latches to catch. You may consider using a thinner foam thickness.

A relay making and breaking, or arcing and a sparking as the old timers use to say, will blow fuses and cause many other random problems.

Buddy, I wish your location were closer to me... I could fix your relay/fuse box and trace those wires for you in just a few minutes. Good luck and please ride 'em safely! Ken krb1945

:agree: I made the assumption (always a mistake) that you had checked the simple things first. The relays are almost always #1. If you are having repeated loosening, in addition to the foam, bend the relay tabs a tiny bit. This puts side pressure in the slots, makes better contact, and helps prevent loosening. Also, you could have a bad relay. You might try swapping them around, or changing out the one for the offending circuit.

 

[SethO]

:agree: I made the assumption (always a mistake) that you had checked the simple things first. The relays are almost always #1. If you are having repeated loosening, in addition to the foam, bend the relay tabs a tiny bit. This puts side pressure in the slots, makes better contact, and helps prevent loosening. Also, you could have a bad relay. You might try swapping them around, or changing out the one for the offending circuit.

This problem is not the abs issue, I can just shut the spyder off and after the cpu resets it works, I just took the relays out first as something I do because of the DPS fault. I have stuck a bunch of foam there, if you ride this things has hard as I do you have to keep them taped in or they will screw you and you have to get off to fix them.

my buddies and i went thru and taped off the no longer there license plate wires, the front fender running light and the wiring below the headlights that is exposed from the deer hit and the test rider did not have a failure.

I am just wondering if the budds can tell me a more exact point of where is issue is coming from. I do not know if they are related abs fault and running lights, it was not raining when the running lights went yesterday but it was when the abs faulted. The first time the abs fault went it was NOT raining and then the running lights fuse went when my bro in law put it into gear, killed it which is werid cause I drive it with no running lights, would a bad GPS have anything to do with this?