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2022 Ryker Rally - Rattle in Drive Shaft/Under Seat at Low RPM/Speed - any ideas?
- Thread starter Fludtastic
- Start date
Fludtastic
New member
Sorry for the delay. I've been speaking with several people at the dealership including BRP Customer Service regarding this. To make a long story short. BRP has not provided support to the dealership as of yet to help diagnose this noise.
More importantly, the lead mechanic used the link I provided and reviewed the video. She got with the mechanic working on the unit and they reproduced the chattering. She contacted me shortly after informing me that I would not be getting the unit back that day. They don't know what it is. I'm to be contacted for an update as soon as BRP Technical Support reviews the case and provides the dealership mechanics a solution or instructions for further diagnosis. I'm still waiting and don't know when I'll be contacted. Which so far, I'm the only one doing the contacting here. So I'll give it some time and contact them Friday for an update.
Side note: I spoke with the GM 20 minutes ago regarding this case. I've offered to pay the difference for another unit if they'll honor my purchase value towards another vehicle. I'm getting the spiel that once the vehicle is registered it is a used unit and I'm being offered resale credit of $8k back on my purchase. "Bull****" I say!
If the vehicle cannot be fixed after a reasonable number of attempts, they'll have two options.
1) Accept a return of the vehicle from me and refund the full purchase price including fees and taxes, but excluding interest, less a reasonable allowance for the consumer’s use of the vehicle, or
2) Replace the vehicle with a comparable new model acceptable to the consumer, if one can be agreed upon.
I'm feeling like they're not thinking this through. I believe they can have BRP purchase back this unit, if factory defect, and lose nothing while still retaining a sale if they'd only stop beating around the bush and just let me snag another vehicle off their floor. If they don't do this, they'll simply lose my purchase all-together. I don't understand why they can't see this option as a win-win!?
Anyways, No solution to date. The outcome might not be what we're looking for, but I remain patient and hope the issue is identified and a confident, reassuring solution is found.
Though it's been only a couple of weeks, my patience is running thin. I've already missed a few state event rides. Feeling of depression and regret are starting to set in. I'll update as soon as I have something to update.
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racoon
Well-known member
You profile says you are in Oklahoma? Time to research the Lemon Law for Oklahoma:
https://www.oag.ok.gov/oklahomas-lemon-law
"According to the law, there is a presumption that the manufacturer, manufacturer’s agent or dealer has made a reasonable number of attempts, if they have attempted to fix the same defect four or more times during the warranty period or one year following the date of the original delivery of the vehicle, whichever is earlier; or the vehicle is out of service because of the repairs for a total of 30 business days during the same period."
https://www.oag.ok.gov/oklahomas-lemon-law
"According to the law, there is a presumption that the manufacturer, manufacturer’s agent or dealer has made a reasonable number of attempts, if they have attempted to fix the same defect four or more times during the warranty period or one year following the date of the original delivery of the vehicle, whichever is earlier; or the vehicle is out of service because of the repairs for a total of 30 business days during the same period."
Snowbelt Spyder
Well-known member
Hey Jason. I know nothing about Rykers. But what is disturbing to me is the dealership. If I've read this correctly, they didn't disclose to you that the machine was used as a trainer until AFTER you had a problem. And they were REALLY anxious to come get it and look at it, until they couldn't figure it out. And now it's on you. Seems like a training vehicle would fall into the same category as a demo vehicle, and as such, was legally required to be disclosed to you PRIOR to the sale. (it's not the crime, it's the coverup) Of course, this would vary state to state.
They sold it to you as a new vehicle, standing on the technicality that it had never been registered / titled. Now they are standing on the same technicality and you would be penalized because it is a used vehicle. I just have a trustworthiness issue with them. Maybe get some professional advice.
They sold it to you as a new vehicle, standing on the technicality that it had never been registered / titled. Now they are standing on the same technicality and you would be penalized because it is a used vehicle. I just have a trustworthiness issue with them. Maybe get some professional advice.
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Fludtastic
New member
Correct. At this point, I feel I need to remain patient, continue documenting everything and hope they find and fix it. I'd rather prefer to have the Rally than the alternative.
Fludtastic
New member
Hey Snowbelt,
That is all correct. Fortunately for me, we have two lawyers that work in my office. I've spoken to them about it. Right now it'll just be a waiting game.
That is all correct. Fortunately for me, we have two lawyers that work in my office. I've spoken to them about it. Right now it'll just be a waiting game.
Fludtastic
New member
BajaRon,
lol...I needed that. Thank you!
I hope so too. It probably reads worse than it is honestly. The dealership is doing their part to make it right, it just might take longer than I am willing to wait. I've been in a similar situation once before where I was out a new purchase for 3 months. I am just trying to look ahead and avoid such a situation again.
I'll definitely keep everyone updated and post the results in the end.
lol...I needed that. Thank you!
I hope so too. It probably reads worse than it is honestly. The dealership is doing their part to make it right, it just might take longer than I am willing to wait. I've been in a similar situation once before where I was out a new purchase for 3 months. I am just trying to look ahead and avoid such a situation again.
I'll definitely keep everyone updated and post the results in the end.
You might want to check that your State's 'Lemon Laws' actually DO apply to recreational vehicles &/or motorcycles! :lecturef_smilie:
I've got no dog in this fight, what with being on the other side of the World in Oz 'n all,
but from what I've seen here on this Forum & others, many States WITH Lemon Laws that could help, actually specifically exclude our Spyders/Rykers from those laws under either the 'recreational vehicle' or the 'motorcycle' labels! :sour: So it'll very likely serve you well to check on that before you start waving any mention of using that sorta thing around! :thumbup: Oh, and just another reminder that often, even the slightest mention, let alone any threat of legal action often slams the door on any quick &/or simple resolution!! As we've seen reported here more than once, even just a mention of potential legal action means your dealer may no longer make ANY effort on your behalf; and instead, they'll often insist that you only communicate with them thru their lawyers from that point on! :sour: Pretty much always, the ONLY people who benefit from any threats of &/or actual legal action/lawyer involvement are the lawyers themselves - and that often brings the whole argument down to 'Who has the deepest pockets' in order to pay the highest priced lawyers - you, or a multi-million $$ business operation with a high priced legal team on retainer?! :banghead:
Just Sayin'
Fludtastic
New member
You might want to check that your State's 'Lemon Laws' actually DO apply to recreational vehicles &/or motorcycles! :lecturef_smilie:
I've got no dog in this fight, what with being on the other side of the World in Oz 'n all,
Oh, and just another reminder that often, even the slightest mention, let alone any threat of legal action often slams the door on any quick &/or simple resolution!! As we've seen reported here more than once, even just a mention of potential legal action means your dealer may no longer make ANY effort on your behalf; and instead, they'll often insist that you only communicate with them thru their lawyers from that point on! :sour: Pretty much always, the ONLY people who benefit from any threats of &/or actual legal action/lawyer involvement are the lawyers themselves - and that often brings the whole argument down to 'Who has the deepest pockets' in order to pay the highest priced lawyers - you, or a multi-million $$ business operation with a high priced legal team on retainer?! :banghead:
Just Sayin'
Hey Peter,
That is sound advise. In all matters of dispute. Rest assured nothing of the sort has been mentioned to the dealership let alone threatened. They're doing their part to my knowledge. This side discussion about lemon-laws and possible alternative solutions is merely educational and preparation. My state does protect recreational vehicles under this law but certain criteria must be met of course. I doubt it comes to that in this case.
I'm expecting a phone call from the lead mechanic tomorrow afternoon for an update. ��
opcorn:Fludtastic
New member
Hello Everyone,
Update 05.17.2024 - 2022 Can-Am Ryker Rally
Response from BRP to the Mechanic.
TST Detail:
Problem:
Reports of an audible noise can be heard "toc toc toc" when moving at low speeds.
Solution:
This is caused by:
1) Low-speed driving: engine torque is at it's lowest, resistance torque varies (positive and negative) on every roughness on the road and drives clutch engagement.
2) Every time torque on the driveshaft input goes from positive to negative with the roughness of the road, the freeplay of the transmission (especially the dog -on- dog freeplay of the drive reverse dog clutch of 5 degrees) is activated.
3) A slight shock can be heard when the free-play is traveled.
Inspection Procedure:
This noise is considered normal and won't affect gearbox components. No parts need to be replaced.
Warranty:
NA
They also linked her a video related to the report.
https://youtu.be/5y1NcupHwM8?si=xEGFQUteNsRinvIf
Between this report and the mechanics not able to visually identify the cause, I'll be picking up the Rally tomorrow morning. This brings the case to a close. If there is in fact an issue, hopefully the failure doesn't occur at 65mph.
Thank you all for your support.
-Jason
Update 05.17.2024 - 2022 Can-Am Ryker Rally
Response from BRP to the Mechanic.
TST Detail:
Problem:
Reports of an audible noise can be heard "toc toc toc" when moving at low speeds.
Solution:
This is caused by:
1) Low-speed driving: engine torque is at it's lowest, resistance torque varies (positive and negative) on every roughness on the road and drives clutch engagement.
2) Every time torque on the driveshaft input goes from positive to negative with the roughness of the road, the freeplay of the transmission (especially the dog -on- dog freeplay of the drive reverse dog clutch of 5 degrees) is activated.
3) A slight shock can be heard when the free-play is traveled.
Inspection Procedure:
This noise is considered normal and won't affect gearbox components. No parts need to be replaced.
Warranty:
NA
They also linked her a video related to the report.
https://youtu.be/5y1NcupHwM8?si=xEGFQUteNsRinvIf
Between this report and the mechanics not able to visually identify the cause, I'll be picking up the Rally tomorrow morning. This brings the case to a close. If there is in fact an issue, hopefully the failure doesn't occur at 65mph.
Thank you all for your support.
-Jason
BajaRon
Well-known member
Hmmm... I don't know about that. Good move to document it. Especially the video with sound. I can't say that I've ever heard that sound before coming from a Ryker. And we've worked on many. I'm going to go out and see if I can get ours to do it. I kind of doubt it. I think I'd have noticed. Though I think BRP is right about at least that part where they say clutch is engaging and disengaging. I don't get the part about 'Roughness of the road'. In the video, there is no roughness of the road to affect clutch engagement, which seems to be their entire premise for saying it's normal. I'd try to ride so that the clutch engages just once and stays engaged, which means a bit more throttle from the git-go every time.
I hope BRP's diagnosis is correct. But I'd save EVERYTHING for possible future needs. It's good that you've done everything right here.
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Fludtastic
New member
For my safety, I hope so too. Though the "roughness of the road" bit was eye-rolling. But, for sure, I have it covered. Thanks!
If anyone thinks they'd be interested, I'll post back here if anything happens during my future rides with this unit. Just let me know and I'll keep it in mind.
I'm curious, were you able to produced this chatter with one of your Rykers since your post?
Fludtastic
New member
Completed a 130'ish mile ride after picking up the bike earlier. All in all, it rides great, but does not like bumper-to-bumper slow traffic for sure. "Oh well" I'm telling myself.
Funny thing, while at the dealership, I had one of the sales guys hop on the 2023 Rally they had there (also a return from the Can-Am course), and I asked if he would just naturally pull forward and reverse it. It did the same exact thing as mine, but seemed worse... more clunk, clunk, clunk than toc, toc, toc. I wish I had recorded it for reference, but my phone and all my gear was in my buds vehicle.
Anyways, sort of left me convinced that this noise just may be normal. Though still baffling.
I have an all-day ride tomorrow with a large group. Heading out at 6am. Gonna ride the Rally as I normally would. Expecting it to go smoothly. 'fingers crossed'!
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Did you happen to notice at what RPM this was happening?
From what I understand, the clutch engages at 1800 RPM.
If you are trying to inch forward or reverse at that RPM, it could be the clutch engaging and disengaging.
Try holding the brake just a little, might help.
Just a guess.
Bruce
From what I understand, the clutch engages at 1800 RPM.
If you are trying to inch forward or reverse at that RPM, it could be the clutch engaging and disengaging.
Try holding the brake just a little, might help.
Just a guess.
Bruce
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How did your all day ride go?
Fludtastic
New member
Hey Jdr00ejr,
Thanks for asking. It went great! 450.3 miles on the Rally now. The bike rides smooth, plenty of pull/power. No excessive vibrations or over-heating. Slightly pulls to the right, but I'll have alignment checked soon.
I didn't feel unsafe. We took mostly backroads, but even holding highway speeds, I experienced no chatter, instability or concerns honestly. As for slow rolling, be it forward or in reverse, there's still that toc'toc noise and rattle, but I learned that you just have to put more throttle into it to avoid it altogether. I just triple check behind me when reversing. Rather than calmly creeping in reverse, it's more of a subtle burst to get into position to proceed forward and avoid the toc'toc.
Honestly, I'm pleased with the Rally. I think I can live with the quirk for now.
I'll put a few pics of the destination and the rally below in case you're interested.
Thanks!
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Fludtastic
New member
*Update*
Over 900 miles on the Rally now. Still no issues or concerns at any speed. Still dialing in better throttle control at low speeds to avoid the toc toc noise, which isn't too difficult at this point.
I hope this thread helps other new Ryker owners who might have this same noise/concern somehow. Until the next time...
Ride safe everyone!
Jason
Over 900 miles on the Rally now. Still no issues or concerns at any speed. Still dialing in better throttle control at low speeds to avoid the toc toc noise, which isn't too difficult at this point.
I hope this thread helps other new Ryker owners who might have this same noise/concern somehow. Until the next time...
Ride safe everyone!
Jason
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