2011 RT SE5 Clutch issue

[OZZ3]

Hi everyone, need a actual Mechanical engineering design question answer to the following: 1. RT SE5 in trouble when first started and throttled up to move " shutters/stutters" in reverse and first gears after parked for a couple of days. 2. After the first start and moved and shifted to second going forward it smooths out and acts normal. 3. Stopping and allowed to idle after the cold start everything appears normal and smooth in reverse and going forward again. 4. All of this repeats again after parked and engine turned off for a time..
OK, engine is smooth no miss firing on initial startup. It appears it is the SE5 clutch assemble and high suspect is of course the inside centrifugal clutch not the hydraulic release spring load assembly.
For those of you who have actual direct experience with replacing the SE5 clutch plates and removal and repairer of the centrifugal clutch assemble, do you have actual knowledge of the mechanical designed reason for the hole and pin configuration used on the back plate of the centrifugal clutch allowing/ forcing it to be installed in one position only in the back side of the cage?:banghead: Is this actually required in the final manufacturing design?

 

[BajaRon]

Have you changed oil recently? What oil are you using? Only addressing the issue/cause. Not the mechanical design.

 

[OZZ3]

Ron, thanks for the (?) in respect to the oil, it actually has about 2K miles on it , was changed last fall on my buddy's RT SE5 at the same time I changed my SE5's . By the way I believe we or I have purchased the oil filters through you and replaced my front suspension bar from you. Norm is in the process of changing the oil on the RT SE5 today or tomorrow because of the issue described I mentioned to Norm to closely inspect the oil plugs on removal. Our Can Am's both have magnets in both plugs and of course aluminum scrapings from outer clutch cage slide groves are not FE. Also inspect the filters removed. O yes, the clutch plates were replaced last year with the new style along with the centrifugal clutch release "coil spring" and has been running fine with excellent engagement up until now on cold start.

Ron do you have access to BRP Spyder SE5 clutch mechanical engineering, I would like a valid answer to the above question about the pin forcing use of one set of three selected slots in the SE5 drum assembly when there are actually three more sets of three that could be used by the centrifugal clutch unit ??? I have pictures to define this issue.

 

[Eckhard]

What oil are you running??

 

[OZZ3]

Eckhard,
I was sure this would come up from some one in the group besides Baja Ron and is really a valid & good question of course. We both are using 5-40 shell T6 shell full synthetic, please get back to me if your aware of any issues not published. Shell T6 meets the requirements according to the codes setup in the BRP actual service shop manual. Yes, we have used this for at least two years or more. 2018 in May alternately pulled a light trailer through Sun Valley, Yellow Stone park and up through East entrance of Glacier Park and back through Bonners ferry , Spokane and home to Walla Walla ,WA. The Can Am 2011 RT SE5 is pushing at least 50K miles, we know from original owner it possible has 10 K more due to Cluster gauge and or ECM change out early in life(?). My GS SE5 , has been working fine now at 22K miles , was new out of the crate purchase in 2010 as a late model 2009 and did go through several months of SE5 centrifugal clutch issues which actually BRP finally came in and replaced the whole assembly because I was more than ready to tell them I wanted another new unit or my money back. This isn't a joke and I have some pictures to prove multiple issues.. Anyway so far my Can Am GS SE5 except for replacing my self the second DPS unit 2019 in the spring , original had been replaced on recall I believe in 2011. The occasional Blipper adjustments plus front end alignment to both Can Am GS and RT after complete tire changes last year using Lasor alignment setup I actual designed myself and manufactured to do this job properly after reading the problems a number of Can Am owners had gone through plus the early service manual , well was workable but a very length I a joke. Sorry about that last comment but it is true.
The areas and home area we ride in may get temperatures above 100 degrees Fahrenheit for several weeks around July. I have in installed 8 inch radiator fans on the oil coolers of both Can Am's and designed wiring to include OEM fan when selected to run half speed with oil cooler fan installed and allow OEM circuit to run both fans to full speed when required by OEM circuit. My riding buddy leaves his in activated mode most of time in the summer on the RT SE5.
A number of other modes have occurred since 2010 on my GS with oil pressure and fuel pressure gauge using Hall effect technology and Digital voltmeter gauge , RH Hand brake of my own actual design and manufacture is a slave to OEM's as a safety braking system. The handbrake I use personally about 98% of time and use the peddle basically in stop and go traffic as a park stop feature to relax my throttle hand while waiting for red light change..

 

[BajaRon]

Ron, thanks for the (?) in respect to the oil, it actually has about 2K miles on it , was changed last fall on my buddy's RT SE5 at the same time I changed my SE5's . By the way I believe we or I have purchased the oil filters through you and replaced my front suspension bar from you. Norm is in the process of changing the oil on the RT SE5 today or tomorrow because of the issue described I mentioned to Norm to closely inspect the oil plugs on removal. Our Can Am's both have magnets in both plugs and of course aluminum scrapings from outer clutch cage slide groves are not FE. Also inspect the filters removed. O yes, the clutch plates were replaced last year with the new style along with the centrifugal clutch release "coil spring" and has been running fine with excellent engagement up until now on cold start.

Ron do you have access to BRP Spyder SE5 clutch mechanical engineering, I would like a valid answer to the above question about the pin forcing use of one set of three selected slots in the SE5 drum assembly when there are actually three more sets of three that could be used by the centrifugal clutch unit ??? I have pictures to define this issue.

I do not have access to the clutch information you're looking for. I believe that the Rotella T6 has been used by 998 owners. It does concern me that Rotella touts the improved fuel mileage using this lubricant. That, to me, means friction modifiers. The 998 clutch is very touchy. Oils that work fine in most other wet clutch applications can slip the clutch on the 998. It doesn't take much to ruin the friction disks. Whether or not the T6 is the problem. I cannot say. Sounds like you've been running it for some time without issue. But I can tell you that manufacturers are always making changes and 'Improving' their lubricants. If friction modifiers have been added to T6 which were not present before. That could do it. But this is going to show up pretty quickly after an oil change. You'll not get anywhere near 2k before you start having issues.

Clutches do go bad. Hopefully, you can find a Barnett repair kit. They are superior (and less expensive) than OEM. Though I've heard that Barnett has discontinued making the kit for the 998 Spyder.

 

[billybovine]

So the clutch plates were replaced with the longer life style. They are known for this issue as you describe. It is considered normal by BRP. My 2013 STL came with the new style clutch plates and after it broke in 500 to 1000 mile. It would shudder on first take off after sitting for a day or 2. It did this for 5 years and 40,000 miles that I owned it. Just ignore it. It does not cause any harm except be irritating.

 

[OZZ3]

Thanks for your reply! What oil are you using on your 2013 STL SE5? Need To Know. I have been directly involved , hands on, with the clutch plates change to new ones last year on Norm's 2011 RT SE5. Knowing this issue with zero feedback from the outside world we have had to >assume things< and read between the lines so to speak due to lack of info not furnished in the 1 inch thick shop manual for his 2011. I really do appreciate your feedback..