17,000 Miles and the front pulley is history!

[bboley]

Hello All,

Spyderjerry and I just got done putting a Kumho Solus TA11 on the rear of my F3s. For the life of us we could not get the belt to keep tracking properly. After trying probably a dozen times with no luck we decided to see if something was going on with the front pulley. Well sure enough it wasn't just the stock Kendas that had given up the ghost. Yep this is what was left of the inside splines of the pulley. I am really glad that we caught this when we did as my wife and I are ryding our Spyders down to the Lake of the Ozarks for a week of smyle and this pulley would have made a mess of it.

Great big shout out to Spyderjerry for all of his help getting me back on the road safely!

Please everyone with an F3, check your pulley for rust from time to time. Don't do like I did and assume all is well.

 

[GaryTheBadger]

Is BRP ever going to do the right thing, formally acknowledge this issue and take corrective action on it,
such as a paid service note? I recently read on a Spyder Facebook site that a call to BRP for support
resulted in a response that they were unaware of this issue at all!

 

[Freddy]

They'll fix that as soon as they get the DESS issue fixed. opcorn:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?94175-D-E-S-S-experiment

 

[Arion]

Wow, that pulley says it's made in the USA. I didn't think we made anything any longer. I expected to read, 'Made in China or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or Burkina Faso."

 

[JKMSPYDER]

FRONT PULLEY

BRP is well aware of the front pulley problem on the F3’s. It happened to me as well. The pulley is made of a softer part than the shaft it bolts on to. This is to protect the shaft. Lamonster addressed this at the Deadwood three wheel rally last week. The current fix that BRP has come up with is a special locktite that is used on the splines of the pulley and shaft. Of course, this is done by the dealer when replacing the pulley. Only time will tell. The mystery is why this problem is so prevalent on the F3’s compared to other models.

 

[Bfromla]

Wow, that pulley says it's made in the USA. I didn't think we made anything any longer. I expected to read, 'Made in China or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or Burkina Faso."

:sour::lecturef_smilie: The pulley itself is made in USA :thumbup:. the crap pressed in insert with the splines that is failing:dontknow::dontknow::dontknow:& assembled in Canada or Mexico :dontknow:
just wanted to point that out

 

[jcthorne]

:sour::lecturef_smilie: The pulley itself is made in USA :thumbup:. the crap pressed in insert with the splines that is failing:dontknow::dontknow::dontknow:& assembled in Canada or Mexico :dontknow:
just wanted to point that out

The splines and the center section of the pulley are a one piece casting and of same material. Not a pressed in insert. The splines are machined and coated in the hub material.

 

[Freddy]

When this same issue was happening 8-9 years ago BRP increased the torque on the retaining bolt. That seemed to eliminate further failure, assuming the pulley wasn't already damaged before re-torque. What's the torque spec on the F3 pulley bolt these days?

 

[RZ-Jackrabbit]

A question I have not seen about the front pulley spines is if the drive belt vibration is a major contributing factor to the wear of the splines. You are feeling that vibration and all that vibration has to go through both pulleys of the drive belt to get to you.

 

[TerryTheSpyderRyder]

Rusty Sprocket

I wonder if, for preventative maintenance, you could remove the front sprocket and grease the splines lightly with heavy bearing grease?

Hello All,

Spyderjerry and I just got done putting a Kumho Solus TA11 on the rear of my F3s. For the life of us we could not get the belt to keep tracking properly. After trying probably a dozen times with no luck we decided to see if something was going on with the front pulley. Well sure enough it wasn't just the stock Kendas that had given up the ghost. Yep this is what was left of the inside splines of the pulley. I am really glad that we caught this when we did as my wife and I are ryding our Spyders down to the Lake of the Ozarks for a week of smyle and this pulley would have made a mess of it.

Great big shout out to Spyderjerry for all of his help getting me back on the road safely!

Please everyone with an F3, check your pulley for rust from time to time. Don't do like I did and assume all is well.

 

[SpyderJerry]

no grease

You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.

 

[Highwayman2013]

 

[bboley]

Thanks again for all of your help on this "project" Spyderjerry! :thumbup::clap:

You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.

 

[jcthorne]

When this same issue was happening 8-9 years ago BRP increased the torque on the retaining bolt. That seemed to eliminate further failure, assuming the pulley wasn't already damaged before re-torque. What's the torque spec on the F3 pulley bolt these days?

Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.

The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.

Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....

 

[Bigmo]

Is BRP ever going to do the right thing, formally acknowledge this issue and take corrective action on it,
such as a paid service note? I recently read on a Spyder Facebook site that a call to BRP for support
resulted in a response that they were unaware of this issue at all!

Yeap! That's BRP for you. Always denying everything. Just like the belt vibration issue. I harass them soooooo much, they finally agreed to install a belt tensioner under the warranty. No charge to me. We all have to do that and may be, just may be, they'll provide service and take care of their customer.

 

[bboley]

Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.

The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.

Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....

The same thing happened to us as we tried to get the bad pulley off. The problem with mine was that the pulley needed to be turned so that what was left of the splines on the pulley lined up with the groves on the shaft. As soon as we got the splines and grooves lined up it popped right off with the puller. We ended up putting the puller on the back side of the pulley after the front flange broke off.

I was lucky my pulley could be turned by hand, if the pulley is tight on the shaft maybe you could put a screw driver or something in the belt groove of the pulley and hit it with a hammer to break it free. Good luck

 

[Freddy]

Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. <snip

WOW :yikes: that's utterly alarming! If that is the case then the bolt does nothing at all apart from stopping the pulley falling off - earlier. On the V-twins the pulley is proud of the shaft, meaning the clamping force (term used in BRP s/bulletin) of a tighter bolt locks the pulley & shaft together, preventing relative movement and thus wear - end of problem.

If what you say is true, and I don't doubt it, these failures will be repeated time and again - and we're already seeing that reported on some unfortunate owners' trikes.

How could such a design flaw be possible? Oh yes - it's a Spyder.

 

[SpyderJerry]

648

View attachment 163730

Thank you, hit wrong key

 

[PMK]

Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.

The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.

Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....

Belt on, bolt out, place a Penny on the end of the shaft, install the puller, snug puller. Fire the motor, while in gear hold brake, and shift back and forth from 1 to R. When the splines on some of the aircraft syuff gets stuck because they failed to lubricate the splines, we do similar to release them. Yours may be wedged on, and like the other guy said, it may not budge until it is aligned.

You may even want a second person tightening the puller slightly each bump of the shifter.

Be careful if you spray loose juice into the splines, some of that stuff attacks rubber. Probably best a light lube to release it like motor oil or a good soak of WD.

If it does not release, carefully cut the pulley off.

 

[jcthorne]

Belt on, bolt out, place a Penny on the end of the shaft, install the puller, snug puller. Fire the motor, while in gear hold brake, and shift back and forth from 1 to R. When the splines on some of the aircraft syuff gets stuck because they failed to lubricate the splines, we do similar to release them. Yours may be wedged on, and like the other guy said, it may not budge until it is aligned.

You may even want a second person tightening the puller slightly each bump of the shifter.

Be careful if you spray loose juice into the splines, some of that stuff attacks rubber. Probably best a light lube to release it like motor oil or a good soak of WD.

If it does not release, carefully cut the pulley off.

Great idea on the rocking.

When the flange snapped, I decided I was doing more harm than good and the bike is still under warranty so took it to the dealer and told them what I had done. They were pretty good about it, I also gave them the new pulley, bolt and loctite 648.

I will suggest this to them if they do not have the pulley off by when I speak with them tues evening.