Black Clutch Fluid on SM5

[stewartj239]

I went to move the Spyder out of the garage yesterday and noticed that the clutch lever had no resistance. I checked the ground, but did not see anything leaking. I popped the lid to the master cylinder, looked in, and the fluid was black. I drained it, cleaned things out and replaced it with a fresh batch of DOT 4 brake fluid. After a quick bleed, the clutch was working again. My question is, has anyone noticed this before? Typically the fluid is clear, but this was literally black. Is it this way from BRP? Is there any other explanation?

 

[Chupaca]

No..!!

The fluid gets that way with time use and the wear on rubber parts. They do recommend replacing the fluid. If you lost pressure be good to check or rebulid the slave and master cylinders..jmo...:thumbup:

 

[stewartj239]

The fluid gets that way with time use and the wear on rubber parts. They do recommend replacing the fluid. If you lost pressure be good to check or rebulid the slave and master cylinders..jmo...:thumbup:

Yes, that is true, but that quickly? I've only got 5K miles on it and it is less than a year old. On all of my prior Honda motorcycles, you could go a few years before replacing both clutch and brake fluids and even then, the fluid did not look anywhere near this bad. All is good now, and I didn't mind replacing it, but I am just surprised to see the state it was in this early on. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jtoro1]

Yes, that is true, but that quickly? I've only got 5K milerr eryes on it and it is less than a year old. On all of my prior Honda motorcycles, you could go a few years before replacing both clutch and brake fluids and even then, the fluid did not look anywhere near this bad. All is good now, and I didn't mind replacing it, but I am just surprised to see the state it was in this early on. Thanks for the feedback.

I replace my clutch fluid every oil change it does get dark

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

What does the owners manual say about the time frame to replace the fluid? If I remember right it seems that it was an early replace then longer thereafter, but mine is an auto.

 

[DrewNJ]

We've seen a few instances of that now and suspect a bad batch of rubber orings. From what I understand the orings are indeed rubber....which doesn't play nice with brake fluid....not much does. I've been keeping an eye on mine but when the time comes I will probably use non - OEM replacements. There are much better materials out there for this use. Not cheap though..


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[stewartj239]

What does the owners manual say about the time frame to replace the fluid?

Page 125 of the Operator's Guide says to replace it 14K miles or 2 years.

 

[stewartj239]

We've seen a few instances of that now and suspect a bad batch of rubber orings.

Is this up at the reservoir or down at the clutch? I don't see a slave cylinder on the right side of the engine case by the clutch.

 

[DrewNJ]

Down at the clutch. Pull up the parts schematics and it will make a ton of sense. Basically, I was going to order all new OEM orings and then measure them for some replacements. Thinking Viton? I have a real good friend that works with a lot of this for Lockheed Martin. He mentioned another material that was better suited and he could get for me, but said to buy was real pricey. I can find out.

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[spydaman60]

had mine in for 13,500 maintenance and its an sm5 2012. they said mine was black and i had changed it at 6k due to soft feel on the clutch. :dontknow:

 

[finless]

Down at the clutch. Pull up the parts schematics and it will make a ton of sense. Basically, I was going to order all new OEM orings and then measure them for some replacements. Thinking Viton? I have a real good friend that works with a lot of this for Lockheed Martin. He mentioned another material that was better suited and he could get for me, but said to buy was real pricey. I can find out.

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Please let us know what you ordered and from where to rebuild the cyclinders.
I will have to do this one day myself so it would be super helpful when the time comes to order the parts.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[DrewNJ]

Please let us know what you ordered and from where to rebuild the cyclinders.
I will have to do this one day myself so it would be super helpful when the time comes to order the parts.

Thanks,
Bob

I'll update when I actually do it. It might be a bit though. My fluid looks good and the two other machines I have helped with seem to be better now that we flushed the fluid.
The one that was real bad was repaired under extended warranty. It was a mess. The tech showed us the goo he wiped off some of the hard parts. The rubber had basically turned into a paste!

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[finless]

So how do you flush it and bleed it? Is there a bleeding tit like for break calipers?
Is the procedure in the service manual? I don't have mine handy right now but will look later.

Bob

 

[DrewNJ]

Same as any other clutch, super easy. There is a bleed port right on the top of the cover along the right side. You can't miss it. Yes, a tit...
I have no idea if the procedure is in the manual...

 

[Bob Denman]

Scotty (Nancy's Toy), had amased a lot of information about this phenomenon. You might want to PM him for some input. :thumbup:

 

[stewartj239]

Is the procedure in the service manual? I don't have mine handy right now but will look later.

It is not in the Operator's Manual that came with the Spyder. The procedure is in the shop manual. It is the same procedure for changing / bleeding hydraulic disc brake fluid.

 

[finless]

Read the service manual. Pretty basic procedure.
My fluid is brown so I am going to do it soon.

Bob

 

[nhoj]

It was a mess. The tech showed us the goo he wiped off some of the hard parts. The rubber had basically turned into a paste!

If its got the 'goo' its probably one of the rubber items breaking down, O-rings, perhaps even the gasket/seal in the clutch lever itself. If its just dirty this seems to be a commonality with the clutch fluid in the SM's.

Regardless, if you "got the goo" have your dealer look at it. Should be a warranty repair. In our case on the RT the slave cylinder piston was slightly cocked to one side. Just enough to wear unevenly and rub the O-rings producing the goo.

Dealer rebuilt the slave cylinder and replaced the O-rings and gasket in the clutch lever. No more goo but the fluid does get dirty and we flush it twice a season.

The ST doesn't have the goo but the fluid does get dirty and is on the same twice a season flush schedule.

 

[finless]

So question.
Does BRP sell a rebuild kit for master and slave? Or do you have to buy all the rings, washers, etc separately?

In our case on the RT the slave cylinder piston was slightly cocked to one side. Just enough to wear unevenly and rub the O-rings producing the goo.

Looking at the manual I do not see a "slave". Not like on a car caliper that I am use to. On page 174 it lists a hydraulic piston which has 2 O-rings on it. I assume this is the slave? But I don't get how you would solve it being cocked to one side? There is no adjustment per say so if it is cocked I assume this would be due to a defective piston shape?

Bob

 

[finless]

Sorry another question I am not getting.

If the black goo is coming from the clutch slave (hydraulic piston), how is that getting up into the master cylinder reservoir?
It seems odd that it would float up into there? So is it more likely the black coloring is coming from the master?

Bob