My Attempt at the Fixing the Horrid Fuel Smell

[AZCowboy]

Gas fumes and mpg

Did you do anything with the cat like wrap it or remove it? Seems like that is a high heat source right under the gas tank.

No I left the cat alone and yes it does put out heat but not to the gas tank. It was the 2 manifold pipes that was heating up the gas tank and creating all the gas fumes. When I wrapped the manifold pipes it cooled it down so much that I didn't have a boiling gas tank or hot glove box. then I took out the factory air box and replaced it with Air Filter Kit Performance Can-Am Spyder RS and RT,
http://www.kewlmetalstore.com/index.php?cPath=5_43&osCsid=a8ab7cc714af676fa2f71b20b3a27625 I get 25% more air and a deep throat sound plus more mpg as well as more power. What a world of a difference and I can now see the top of the engine as well as getting to the front spark plug easy. That in proved my power and mpg. You can replace your cat that looks like that cat but a strait flow instead. RT Cat-Bypass is now available at www.spyder1attitude.com. RJ

 

[Craniac]

Craniac, What was your thinking for the extra loops of hose around the frame?

That may be the first time someone has accused me of thinking.

Actually it was the only way I could get six feet of hose added without getting it too close to moving/hot parts.
I bought six feet of hose, I was going to use six feet of hose. No thinking involved!

 

[jerpinoy]

This is the big problem to some of us who want to do what the BRP suppose to be their responsibility.

 

[Craniac]

In the mid 80's today. Started out about 1.5 gallons below full. So it was NOT overfilled! Checked the fuel filter/sight glasses before the ride. Did not see any fuel in either one. Rode about 60 miles. Checked both again. Right one did not have any fuel in it. Left one had a little raw fuel in it. Once again, this is a couple inches higher than the highest point for the factory hose routing.

This fuel would have gone into the Evap Canister.

 

[AZCowboy]

In the mid 80's today. Started out about 1.5 gallons below full. So it was NOT overfilled! Checked the fuel filter/sight glasses before the ride. Did not see any fuel in either one. Rode about 60 miles. Checked both again. Right one did not have any fuel in it. Left one had a little raw fuel in it. Once again, this is a couple inches higher than the highest point for the factory hose routing.
View attachment 86564
This fuel would have gone into the Evap Canister.

If you want to stop the gas fumes wrapped the modifold pipes. It will stop the boiling of the gas plus keep it cooler under the plastic. What helped my mpg beside cooling the compartment was changing the air box to a new 12" round air cleaner. Now I have more power at 3K rpms then I did at 4K+ rpms. my mpg went from 20-27 to 28-36 and no more strong smell of gas fumes. RJ :2thumbs:

 

[Craniac]

Went back to the garage after the bike had sat awhile. The fuel smell was back. Looked under the bike at the overflow hose and I could see the vapors pouring out. Don't know of it is from today's ride or just some fuel left in the canister that is evaporating.

I found a couple articles on the 'net about rebuilding Evap Canisters. Looks easy. You go the pet store and buy some activated charcoal and replace the old charcoal. The trick is getting the canister open. I don't know if the Spyder canister is designed to be serviced or if it would have to be cut open. Anyone have one out of the bike?

 

[jrk36]

I am sorry! I did not realize many people have to go 100 miles to the next town?

I live in Broome in regional Western Australia and when I leave town heading south the next fuel stop is 295km (183 miles) away! Mind you I always carry spare fuel when heading that way!
John K

 

[SNOOPY]

Went back to the garage after the bike had sat awhile. The fuel smell was back. Looked under the bike at the overflow hose and I could see the vapors pouring out. Don't know of it is from today's ride or just some fuel left in the canister that is evaporating.

I found a couple articles on the 'net about rebuilding Evap Canisters. Looks easy. You go the pet store and buy some activated charcoal and replace the old charcoal. The trick is getting the canister open. I don't know if the Spyder canister is designed to be serviced or if it would have to be cut open. Anyone have one out of the bike?

I would guess its sealed. May be easier to just replace ...of course I say that not knowing if a new one is reasonably priced or not.

 

[gypsy_100]

I found a couple articles on the 'net about rebuilding Evap Canisters. Looks easy. You go the pet store and buy some activated charcoal and replace the old charcoal. The trick is getting the canister open. I don't know if the Spyder canister is designed to be serviced or if it would have to be cut open. Anyone have one out of the bike?

Canister lists for 66.99
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[TD="class: listTD ariPLSku, align: center"]709000090[/TD]
[TD="class: listTD ariPLDesc"]Vapor Canister Evaporative emission component.[/TD]
[TD="class: listTD ariPLPrice, align: center"]$66.99[/TD]
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Buy a new one. To say they are sealed is an understatement. They are impenetrable. I cut my old one apart with a hacksaw to see the design. Not fun. An in and out swap with a new one is quick and easy.

Don't be disappointed if it does not help. It did not help mine. My old canister was fine and a brand new one was no better. Ditto for the purge valve.

 

[Craniac]

I cut my old one apart with a hacksaw to see the design.

I am interested in the internals. Were there any valves inside?
I was thinking about cutting in in half, lengthening it, replacing the charcoal and mounting it where the '14's mount.

Mine already has the heat shielding so BRP tried and failed.

pics would be a huge help.

 

[Bob Denman]

If you need it... Here's the 2014 setup.
I think that your idea of getting the vent line higher than the tank, has real merit! :clap: :2thumbs:

 

[nhoj]

Here's another picture of the Canister on a 2014. They still have the hoses running over the top of the gas tank.

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

Here's another picture of the Canister on a 2014. They still have the hoses running over the top of the gas tank.

View attachment 86627

But notice in that picture there is no heat shielding on that tank! That's because on the 14 models they solved the heat issue of heating the tank by getting the exhaust away from it! The only reason that canister is back there is because there is no room to put it back near the engine because of the size of the triple and going farther forward would get it back near the heat source, the exhaust! It being mounted higher and reward would help with fuel slosh "possibly" making it's way into the canister.

 

[gypsy_100]

I am interested in the internals. Were there any valves inside?
I was thinking about cutting in in half, lengthening it, replacing the charcoal and mounting it where the '14's mount.

Mine already has the heat shielding so BRP tried and failed.

pics would be a huge help.

I'll get some up on here later today. Gotta' run.

 

[Bob Denman]

But notice in that picture there is no heat shielding on that tank! That's because on the 14 models they solved the heat issue of heating the tank by getting the exhaust away from it! The only reason that canister is back there is because there is no room to put it back near the engine because of the size of the triple and going farther forward would get it back near the heat source, the exhaust! It being mounted higher and reward would help with fuel slosh "possibly" making it's way into the canister.

They also had that spot available; because the batteries used to be there... :2thumbs:

 

[jcthorne]

They also had that spot available; because the batteries used to be there... :2thumbs:

The 2013 battery is not back there either. Its up front just like the 14. Wonder if the rear mount for the canister would work on the 13? Don't really think it would solve much.

Where is the vent line outlet on the 14? Surely they do not run it back forward and under the engine bay.

 

[Bob Denman]

They changed to a different fuel tank for 2014...
I believe that 2013 was a "transitional" year. It mixed the current and future hardware. :shocked:
Which may have been it's "downfall". :gaah:

 

[gypsy_100]

Canister Internal Photos

No valves, nothing fancy -- just three ports, two chambers and a passageway between them:



Here's my thoughts on how it functions. The canister is divided into two chambers, about 2/3 and 1/3 -- both filled with activated charcoal. The divider goes from the top to near the bottom but there is a gap at the bottom connecting the two chambers. The tank port and the purge valve port are side by side at the top of the main chamber. The vent port (or drain port) is at the top of the smaller chamber. There is a layer of foam rubber at the bottom that goes under the divider and allows free passage of air or fumes through the foam rubber from one chamber to the other.

When the purge valve is closed (by that I mean not drawing fumes into the engine -- low rpm, idling, not running, etc) the fumes come in from the tank, must go down thru the main chamber, under the divider, up thru the small chamber, and out the port to the long drain hose to the atmosphere. Well and good. Hopefully they get absorbed along the way. Except we know better.

Now, when the purge valve opens (higher rpm, drawing fumes into the engine), it seems the first thing it would do is draw fumes directly from the tank as the two ports are side by side. (There were filters over both those ports to prevent contamination, or anything being drawn into the engine by the vacuum. I removed the filters for the photos.) If the engine created enough vacuum, then it would start drawing air in from the vent hose in the reverse of the flow described above. Air would come up the long drain hose, down the small chamber, up the large chamber and into the purge port drawn by engine vacuum. Well and good. Except at the rate the tank generates vapor when hot, the second part of that equation may never happen. The purge vacuum may just draw vapor from the tank, maybe never even keeping up with the rate of generation, and certainly not cleansing the charcoal. So when you shut off, or the valve closes, you are defeated. The fumes pass thru the “full” charcoal and out the hose.

In my case, I am certain there was never any liquid sloshed into the canister. The charcoal was totally dry, the foam rubber totally dry with no signs of liquid anywhere. If liquid had been in that canister, I would have seen it. I had bad fumes right before the canister was removed but the canister was totally dry. In my case, I'm sure the volume of fumes just overwhelm the small canister and go out the bottom of the hose. Since the canister is warm on the 2011's and the hose is warm, the fumes do not condense inside but get pushed down the vent hose and when they hit the cold air at the bottom, they condense and cause the drips. On my 2011, the hose from the tank to the canister has a 90-degree fitting on the tank, then rises vertically at least three inches over about a foot or more of horizontal length before turning down to the canister. I personally believe that fuel would not slosh thru a 90-degree fitting and then go uphill all that distance through a small diameter hose. Now if the tank were overfilled and subject to thermal expansion, I could imagine fuel being forced into the hose but without accurate knowledge of the headspace built into the tank and the degree of expansion, I can't say if that is likely or not. In my case, I am sure that did not happen. Your situation and your opinion may be different.

Staying away from controversy, I hope this at least helps with understanding what's inside that mystical canister.

 

[jwulf74]

I see the problem... the vent is supposed to the ocean as labeled on the canister, not to the atmosphere. Stick the vent hose in the water and no more fumes. :roflblack:

All joking aside, thanks for the pics and write up. That gives me a lot better idea of how that is set up and supposed to work. :2thumbs:

I wonder now about moving the canister closer to the front of the bike where the air box used to be. That would allow it to do its job but in a hopefully cooler spot. I also wonder what kind of pressure would build up in the system if the vent were modified to have a pressure relief valve on it that would only open at certain pressures...that would prevent anything from escaping and giving it a chance to cool but if the pressure reaches X then the valve would open and allow it to vent... any thoughts?

 

[Craniac]

Gypsy: Thanks for the pics. It is exactly what I needed.

Looks like there could be a valve of some sort on the port coming from the fuel tank.

My closest dealer is a 400 mile round trip. Not worth the wasted gas to have it "fixed" under warranty.

My plan now is to cut it in half near the bottom. I have enough power tools to make it easy. Next try to lengthen the canister to increase capacity. Refill with activated charcoal from the pet store. Then mount it where the '14s mount.

Doubt I will get to it today.