My Attempt at the Fixing the Horrid Fuel Smell

[Craniac]

I hesitated to start another thread on this topic but maybe BRP will notice a theme developing simply by reading the Titles to the threads. I have a '13 ST with a little over 2,000 miles. I bought it slightly used with 230 miles so I don't know if the previous owner ever overfilled the tank. Come on BRP, sooner or later it is bound to happen to every Spyder. For that matter I have no idea if I have ever "overfilled" the tank. An almost full tank in a hard corner may act like an overfilled tank. I read several threads on this and found out that my closest dealer (200 miles on way) has worked on another Spyder and it still has problems. Plus, my canister already had a lot of heat shield material on it. I'm guessing someone tried before.

I did not want to remove the canister just yet. I am pretty certain that mine is full of gas since I could see gas fumes pouring out of the overflow hose and it was actually wet with gas. Someone else suggested running a longer hose from the fuel tank, up the spine near the handlebars and then back to the evap canister. I thought this idea might work. Of course I had to modify it a bit just because I could.

I cut the overflow/vapor line about six inches from where it enters the tank. I rerouted the line to the left side of the bike. I attached an inline fuel filter, then six feet of fuel hose that is coiled on top of the frame spine. I added another in line fuel filter on the right side where I can see it if the seat is open and then back to the original line to the canister.

This is how I hope it will work. The fuel filter near the tank will catch any overflow and allow it to drain back into the tank. The six feet of extra hose is much higher than stock. To get to the canister, the fuel will have to go much higher and farther. Finally, I can see if any raw fuel makes its way into the second filter. If raw fuel is ever in the second filter, I will know there is a much more serious problem.

Fuel filter on left side. this is the "reservoir" and closest to tank. Any raw gas here should drain back into the tank.


Six foot of fuel line coiled over the frame spine. I tried three loops but the cover would not go back. The parking brake switch etc. kept hitting the hose. Pic is looking straight down. Front of Bike to the left. Hose is far away from any moving parts.


Right side fuel filter. If this one is ever full, there is a huge problem and raw gas will pour into the evap canister.



Right side filter with the tupperware back on and seat open.


I will probably still smell gas until the evap canister dries out. But if the right side filter stays dry it will be a success.

 

[Sarge707]

I can,t Understand why people have to top Off a Toy!!~
If I were you I would purchase and install a New Canister and then Not overfill it!
I have never even had the Gas Pump Click off on my 09GS and I can go 120 Miles?
If people would get away from the Fixation of filling the tank to the "Tippity Top " a Lot less gas smells would abound?

 

[SNOOPY]

I can,t Understand why people have to top Off a Toy!!~
If I were you I would purchase and install a New Canister and then Not overfill it!
I have never even had the Gas Pump Click off on my 09GS and I can go 120 Miles?
If people would get away from the Fixation of filling the tank to the "Tippity Top " a Lot less gas smells would abound?

I don't smell gas til after about an hour or so ride, so what would that have to do w/ filling it up? :dontknow:

 

[Chupaca]

Nicely done..!!

Hope to hear if this is working well. There are many who can benefit from this because they fill too fast and to high. :2thumbs:

 

[SNOOPY]

Hope to hear if this is working well. There are many who can benefit from this because they fill too fast and to high. :2thumbs:

They fill up while high? Wow. roflmao

 

[Craniac]

I was being a little sarcastic about overfilling. What exactly is full? One drop over and it spills on the ground? If it such a problem, BRP needs to fix it, not blame the customer.


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[Gray Ghost]

I can,t Understand why people have to top Off a Toy!!~

In about a month my wife and I will be embarking on a tour around the lower 48 on our "toy" pulling a trailer. I fill the tank up, not attempting to overfill it, but with gas boiling, some might get by me. Why do I fill the tank up? Because on a bad day for gas mileage I am looking at really needing to get some more gas within a hundred miles or so. And there are places out west where gas stations are fairly far between.

 

[Craniac]

Next town north of here is a hundred miles.


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[garb55]

I can,t Understand why people have to top Off a Toy!!~
If I were you I would purchase and install a New Canister and then Not overfill it!
I have never even had the Gas Pump Click off on my 09GS and I can go 120 Miles?
If people would get away from the Fixation of filling the tank to the "Tippity Top " a Lot less gas smells would abound?

The factory vent hose from comes right off the top of the gas tank
it does not go up
it drops down to the canister
any corner you take will cause gas to overflow
your tank does not have to be full for this to happen
this is a flaw in BRP design
In all my other vehicles the gas tank vent line went up before it dropped to the canister
and in some the canister is higher than the tank

 

[Bob Denman]

I was being a little sarcastic about overfilling. What exactly is full? One drop over and it spills on the ground? If it such a problem, BRP needs to fix it, not blame the customer.

They have fixed it; on the 2014 RTs... :thumbup:


And I know that doesn't help you; sorry! pps:

 

[jcthorne]

I can,t Understand why people have to top Off a Toy!!~
If I were you I would purchase and install a New Canister and then Not overfill it!
I have never even had the Gas Pump Click off on my 09GS and I can go 120 Miles?
If people would get away from the Fixation of filling the tank to the "Tippity Top " a Lot less gas smells would abound?

Sorry but your 'theory' is utter BS. The gas smell has NOTHING to do with overfilling the tank. Has been proven time and again to happen on bikes that can be proven to never been overfilled. IE it happens on bikes with less than half a tank of fuel on brand new bikes or bikes with brand new canisters and less than half a tank. BOTH mine and my wifes bikes have the fuel smell problem (much reduced now but still there) and NEITHER of them have EVER been overfilled. PERIOD.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW OWNERS FILL THE TANK. ITS A BRP DESIGN DEFECT and we need to begin treating as such.

 

[gypsy_100]

Sorry but your 'theory' is utter BS. The gas smell has NOTHING to do with overfilling the tank. Has been proven time and again to happen on bikes that can be proven to never been overfilled. IE it happens on bikes with less than half a tank of fuel on brand new bikes or bikes with brand new canisters and less than half a tank. BOTH mine and my wifes bikes have the fuel smell problem (much reduced now but still there) and NEITHER of them have EVER been overfilled. PERIOD.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW OWNERS FILL THE TANK. ITS A BRP DESIGN DEFECT and we need to begin treating as such.

:agree: While overfilling could cause the problem, I can personally say that it is not always the cause. I suspect it is not often the cause. The cause is the extensive amount of fumes from the hot tank overwhelm the canister capacity and the excess fumes vent out the bottom of the hose. They are warm fumes and when they hit the cold air, they condense on the bottom of the hose and drip off.

I proved this on my own '11 RT. Never been overfilled. Fumes were bad. I removed the canister and cut it apart. Totally dry inside, charcoal was in perfect condition. Installed a brand new canister and purge valve and the fumes were as bad as ever. Immediately. If you look underneath at the volume of fumes coming out the hose, it's no surprise that the canister can't keep up with it.

 

[Sarge707]

Next town north of here is a hundred miles.


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I am sorry! I did not realize many people have to go 100 miles to the next town?

 

[AZCowboy]

Gas fumes

:agree: While overfilling could cause the problem, I can personally say that it is not always the cause. I suspect it is not often the cause. The cause is the extensive amount of fumes from the hot tank overwhelm the canister capacity and the excess fumes vent out the bottom of the hose. They are warm fumes and when they hit the cold air, they condense on the bottom of the hose and drip off.

I proved this on my own '11 RT. Never been overfilled. Fumes were bad. I removed the canister and cut it apart. Totally dry inside, charcoal was in perfect condition. Installed a brand new canister and purge valve and the fumes were as bad as ever. Immediately. If you look underneath at the volume of fumes coming out the hose, it's no surprise that the canister can't keep up with it.

I have found the reason for the gas fumes. I live in the high desert of Northern AZ and it seems when it gets hot under the body you get the fumes. It is because your two 2 inch manifold pipes are a half inch from the front of the gas tank with only shadow shielding which doesn't protect the gas tank for the heat. In turn it makes your gas boil in the tank sending a lot of gas fumes to the canister overloading it and now you have a lot of gas fumes in a hot confined area. Got a match anyone? Your canister is also a half inch from the side of the engine with no sheilding. If it goes and you are on it say your prayers you are cooked. RJ :spyder2:

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

There are a few posters on this thread that get it! :thumbup: The excessive heat is EXACTLT the problem causing the fuming. I picked my bike up from the dealer on Saturday with a new canister and instruction not to overfill the tank. Well after a 42 mile ride home and about 30 minuets in the garage I have a horrid gas smell and a small puddle on the ground with less than half a tank! I have been logging temps on the tank again and on 75-80 degree days im getting temps on the filler neck of 150 degrees or greater. Went for a decent ride with friends on Sunday and the fume smell from my bike was horrible but could see no drips as we were parked over grass. Now there is snow back on the ground but when the weather clears my bike is going back to the dealer and we'll see what the answer is this time.... tbc

 

[Bob Denman]

I'm inclined to agree with you... :thumbup:
Somebody needs to contact Hayfield.
He found that by filling his tank just prior to shut-down, the problem with fumes seemed to stop.
I believe that his theory is that the cooler charge of gasoline brings everything in the tank down to a manageable temperature level...
...I think... :shocked:

 

[gypsy_100]

I have found the reason for the gas fumes. I live in the high desert of Northern AZ and it seems when it gets hot under the body you get the fumes. RJ :spyder2:

There are a few posters on this thread that get it! :thumbup: The excessive heat is EXACTLT the problem causing the fuming. I picked my bike up from the dealer on Saturday with a new canister and instruction not to overfill the tank. answer is thiWell after a 42 mile ride home and about 30 minuets in the garage I have a horrid gas smell and a small puddle on the ground with less than half a tank! tbc

Glad we all agree. The only thing I would add is that it doesn't have to be hot outside. My first ride this season the temps never got over 60F and I got fumes. Obviously not as bad as hot weather -- last season we rode to MS and back and really had fumes. To me, the only solutions are to keep the heat out of the tank or put in a canister the size of a shoe box. On my 2011, it's more of an annoyance than a deal-breaker but it is an annoyance. With over 32K on the bike, I haven't let it stop me! FYI, after I paid for new canister and purge valve even though the old ones checked out OK, my dealer -- a very good one -- called BRP tech support. BRP had them go thru everything step-by-step -- weighing the brand new canister, checking the new purge valve, computer control of the purge valve, etc. When they got all done and everything was fine (as I knew it would be), BRP pretty much said, "Well, that's the way it is." So I don't expect any solutions from BRP, at least for the older years. Hopefully the mod's to the '13's will significantly reduce the heat generated and get things down to a level similar to the earlier years.

 

[jcthorne]

Gasoline can boil at temperatures as low as 100F.
In the Spyder that temperature can easily be reached under the tupperware.
The fumes have to go somewhere.
They are trapped in the evap-canister and when cooled they return to the liquid gasoline state.
It’s not exactly rocket science.

While overfilling might contribute to the problem, from what I’ve seen it doesn’t substantially make any difference at all as to your fill-up preferences.

Why then are the fumes not sucked into the engine via the purge valve? They should not be venting to atmosphere while the engine is running.

 

[AZCowboy]

Gas fumes

There are a few posters on this thread that get it! :thumbup: The excessive heat is EXACTLT the problem causing the fuming. I picked my bike up from the dealer on Saturday with a new canister and instruction not to overfill the tank. Well after a 42 mile ride home and about 30 minuets in the garage I have a horrid gas smell and a small puddle on the ground with less than half a tank! I have been logging temps on the tank again and on 75-80 degree days im getting temps on the filler neck of 150 degrees or greater. Went for a decent ride with friends on Sunday and the fume smell from my bike was horrible but could see no drips as we were parked over grass. Now there is snow back on the ground but when the weather clears my bike is going back to the dealer and we'll see what the answer is this time.... tbc

I have found the reason for the gas fumes. I live in the high desert of Northern AZ and it seems when it gets hot under the body you get the fumes. It is because your two 2 inch manifold pipes are a half inch from the front of the gas tank with only shadow shielding which doesn't protect the gas tank for the heat. In turn it makes your gas boil in the tank sending a lot of gas fumes to the canister overloading it and now you have a lot of gas fumes in a hot confined area. Got a match anyone? Your canister is also a half inch from the side of the engine with no shielding. If it goes and you are on it say your prayers you are cooked. RJ:f_spider:

 

[Craniac]

Why then are the fumes not sucked into the engine via the purge valve? They should not be venting to atmosphere while the engine is running.

The overflow hose from the tank to the canister is almost level. It attaches to the tank near the front. When you hit the brakes it is possible for raw gas to flow forward and into the evap canister. The tank does not need to be full for this to happen. It certainly does not need to be "overfilled".

I believe the purge valve only opens when there is a high vacuum situation. This occurs when you roll off the throttle. It can also occur going down hill. Around here you may drive a hundred miles without ever letting of the throttle. During this hundred miles, the tank heats up, creates more fumes and fills the canister. It may already have raw fuel it from just hitting the brakes leaving town. If it is full of raw fuel, the purge valve might never empty the canister.

It is a poor design and needs to be fixed. BRP needs to figure a way to keep the raw fuel out of the canister.

I know someone has suggested filling the tank just before parking to cool the fuel and slow the amount of vapor produced. Summer is coming and is often over a 100 degrees. Add "cool" fuel, and park at 100 degrees and the fuel will be heated by the 180 degree engine, and even hotter exhaust and cat converter. Vapors will form.

I have been too busy to ride since I did my mod. Hopefully I can ride a little today. but a short ride may not work. The gas tank may need to be heated from a long ride. Yes, the gas tank gets hot.