Potential to Make Some Money - Ram Air Scoops

[Magdave]

:shocked: Why; ALL of them... of course!! :2thumbs:


I feel pretty darn bad for you 2013 owners that are fighting this battle... you're not alone in it; HANG IN THERE!! for as long as you can, and then, we'll all grab onto you! :thumbup:

You know what frosts me about this is he IS a 2013 owner who professes to support those of us that have problems then slams someone who is trying to come up with a viable idea and slams me because I called him out on it. Didn't we just get done this with we should all support the problem children? Using big words to make someone feel small just makes it worse to me. I value common sense over intelligence. I have seen some pretty stupid guys do some amazing things and some master engineers I worked with couldn't find the toilet paper in the bathroom. Just because your bike that is great doesn't give you carte blanche (oops big word) to complain about those of us posting and struggling with heat issues. Oh yeah we insulted them and ruined the value for them uh huh right. If their bike is so good why not take off the recall fix ..I mean it is OK without it so they don't need it stopping up the air flow. I bet they don't. Now off to find some Ice Cream....

 

[rojodawg]

You know what frosts me about this is he IS a 2013 owner who professes to support those of us that have problems then slams someone who is trying to come up with a viable idea and slams me because I called him out on it. Didn't we just get done this with we should all support the problem children? Using big words to make someone feel small just makes it worse to me. I value common sense over intelligence. I have seen some pretty stupid guys do some amazing things and some master engineers I worked with couldn't find the toilet paper in the bathroom. Just because your bike that is great doesn't give you carte blanche (oops big word) to complain about those of us posting and struggling with heat issues. Oh yeah we insulted them and ruined the value for them uh huh right. If their bike is so good why not take off the recall fix ..I mean it is OK without it so they don't need it stopping up the air flow. I bet they don't. Now off to find some Ice Cream....

You are one amazing guy. Let's try some facts:
(1) If you are referring to "fatuous" as a "big word", Hayfield used that first and I simply repeated it.
(2) Hayfield incorrectly extrapolated the survey results by stating that 'the issues almost half of 2013 Spyder riders are experienceing,". You continue to do the same.
(3) I corrected Hayfield and closed with "Again, I'm sorry if you have excessive heat, but please try to keep things in perspective and avoid inflammatory claims that do no good for anyone." That is not a slam, it's a request for accuracy. And I expressed support for his heat problems.
(4) Hayfield did not like that I corrected his post and incorrectly stated that he conditioned his statement to apply to only survey respondants. But, if you simply read his original post, he didn't. I then explained why the original post was still confusing and misleading, and closed with explaining that I was not trying to be picky, but just wanted statements to be accurate. That was not a slam, it was an explanation.

I've got no quarrel with Hayfield or anyone else, but when people read statements that are not accurate, they leave the forum with bad information. I clearly explained that was my reason for trying to clarify what the survey should and should not be used for.

Then you come along with your attack on me. I respond, explaining my perspective as a 2013 owner and again affirming my support for those with heat problems. I wished you well.

Then you come right back with the same old anger and spite, using defense of Hayfield as a reason, try to ridicule me with your "big words" assertion and accuse me of complaining about those with heat issues, claim that "people like me" cause others to leave spyderlovers, and imply that engineers like me can't find toilet paper. Really? Look in the mirror my friend and read responses to your own posts. Lots of people have taken exception to what you post.

Get some help my friend. It would be funny if it wasn't just so sad.

 

[Magdave]

You are one amazing guy. Let's try some facts:
(1) If you are referring to "fatuous" as a "big word", Hayfield used that first and I simply repeated it.
(2) Hayfield incorrectly extrapolated the survey results by stating that 'the issues almost half of 2013 Spyder riders are experienceing,". You continue to do the same.
(3) I corrected Hayfield and closed with "Again, I'm sorry if you have excessive heat, but please try to keep things in perspective and avoid inflammatory claims that do no good for anyone." That is not a slam, it's a request for accuracy. And I expressed support for his heat problems.
(4) Hayfield did not like that I corrected his post and incorrectly stated that he conditioned his statement to apply to only survey respondants. But, if you simply read his original post, he didn't. I then explained why the original post was still confusing and misleading, and closed with explaining that I was not trying to be picky, but just wanted statements to be accurate. That was not a slam, it was an explanation.

I've got no quarrel with Hayfield or anyone else, but when people read statements that are not accurate, they leave the forum with bad information. I clearly explained that was my reason for trying to clarify what the survey should and should not be used for.

Then you come along with your attack on me. I respond, explaining my perspective as a 2013 owner and again affirming my support for those with heat problems. I wished you well.

Then you come right back with the same old anger and spite, using defense of Hayfield as a reason, try to ridicule me with your "big words" assertion and accuse me of complaining about those with heat issues, claim that "people like me" cause others to leave spyderlovers, and imply that engineers like me can't find toilet paper. Really? Look in the mirror my friend and read responses to your own posts. Lots of people have taken exception to what you post.

Get some help my friend. It would be funny if it wasn't just so sad.

Right back at ya pal. If you don't like what someone posts no one appointed you as the corrector just move on and read something else. I don't even take the responses personally like you obviously do it is just a forum and I am doing all I can to get my (and other) 2013's right. What have you done to help?

By the way #2 is correct on the poll on this forum and your were told that yet you keep trying to say that is wrong. I asked for your proof ,.....still waiting.

One last thing please take off your recall tape. FB, Hotglue and people like me are the ones who got BRP to come up with it. Since your bike is so perfect obviously you do not need it right?

 

[poordom]

I suspect someone could make a ton of cash from 2013 RT and RS owners if they marketed an affordable and easily installed air scoop that would fit the grills under the rearview mirrors! Vertika makes one, but it is way too expensive.

If the shape isn't too complex, one could probably use ABS plastic, which sell in 4' X 8' sheets, 1/8" thick should be sufficient, avg. price about $ 30.00 a sheet, easy to cut with a small grinder with cut off wheel, shaping is done with an hot air gun.

If the original piece works out then you could move to fiberglass, plug and mold.

Dom

 

[rojodawg]

Right back at ya pal. If you don't like what someone posts no one appointed you as the corrector just move on and read something else. I don't even take the responses personally like you obviously do it is just a forum and I am doing all I can to get my (and other) 2013's right. What have you done to help?

By the way #2 is correct on the poll on this forum and your were told that yet you keep trying to say that is wrong. I asked for your proof ,.....still waiting.

One last thing please take off your recall tape. FB, Hotglue and people like me are the ones who got BRP to come up with it. Since your bike is so perfect obviously you do not need it right?

DEAL!!!! I know the perfect place to cram all of that heat tape. :roflblack::roflblack:

Truce my friend, or even better, you win. I'm done. Even the affordable care website is more pleasant than this. :joke:

 

[Magdave]

If the shape isn't too complex, one could probably use ABS plastic, which sell in 4' X 8' sheets, 1/8" thick should be sufficient, avg. price about $ 30.00 a sheet, easy to cut with a small grinder with cut off wheel, shaping is done with an hot air gun.

If the original piece works out then you could move to fiberglass, plug and mold.

Dom

It is doable but then you would either have to take off the deflector or buy an adjustable one for it to function. Vertika has something like this but the price is way to high IMHO

http://www.vertikatrykescanada.com/index.shtml?cat=SPYDER RT-RTS parts not painted

 

[Magdave]

DEAL!!!! I know the perfect place to cram all of that heat tape. :roflblack::roflblack:

Truce my friend, or even better, you win. I'm done. Even the affordable care website is more pleasant than this. :joke:

You can send me the tape and I will send you the pictures:thumbup: Ok if you behave I will too:doorag:

 

[cuznjohn]

vertika

It is doable but then you would either have to take off the deflector or buy an adjustable one for it to function. Vertika has something like this but the price is way to high IMHO

http://www.vertikatrykescanada.com/index.shtml?cat=SPYDER RT-RTS parts not painted

dave this is what i bought with the bottom vent also. i have not tried to install them yet because i don't know what is going on with the bike. i also bought the yellow 3 stage paint for them but don't want to paint them b4 i mount them so right now the set is sitting in my living room till i make a full decision about what i want to do. they are fiberglass and gene did a great job on them, for the bottom vents there are also 2 filler plates that fit in the upper and lower vent holes. really nice set up but for 1285.00 w/o paint they are very pricey

 

[CyncySpyder]

This is my experience ONLY & I don't recommend this as a 'CURE' for 2013s

I'm curious, don't that mod put the air intake up in the heat? We all know that engines like to breath cool air for better power, seems like removing the air box (that is getting it's air by the left front wheel) would allow the engine to gulp the hot air that is trapped under the plastic, more so when stopped or moving slowly in traffic. You have done this mod how is it working for you and do you think it would help with the 13's and the excessive heat under there or could this mod open us up to other problems? Also where is the IAT "intake air temp" sensor located after you remove the air box?

Look closer at the 1st pic, you can see the 'Intake' is right below the top mount of the Elka Shock, its not sucking trapped engine heat, its sucking in fresh ambient temperature air.

Your second statement would be correct, if all you did was remove the OEM Plastic & replace it with the KewlMetal Intake. When going at slow or stop & go traffic, then YES, the intake would be taking in the heated trapped air from the engine bay. That's why I went a step further, and on my own, added the inline blower and used the OEM intake tube from the old system and mounted it to the blower intake side and have the blower exhaust side aiming the cooler ambient air directly up to the new KnN Filter.

Its working better than hoped :clap:

Yes, I think this could help, but our 11 isn't the same as the 13s, and we don't really know all the reasons for only some of them having heat issues and others not. I'm not a professional mechanic nor an engineer, so my only answer to the other part of your question is, I DON'T KNOW, sorry.

The RT (all Spyders in general I think) all have an AAPTS (Ambient Air Pressure/Temperature Sensor) located on the right side of the Frunk and should be located in a protective mesh type of holder. This is one of the reasons most RT ryders complain that their temp. gauges (LCD Display, not coolant temp gauge) usually show about 6 degrees higher than actual ambient temp readings from most banks, GPS etc... cause its reading the ambient temp that's trapped under the Tupperware of the Frunk, but not the high heat trapped in the engine bay. I did not move or relocate this sensor.

Instead, I added my own so I could keep track of the temps going on in the engine bay area & its not connected into the Spyders systems, except to the battery for power. It shows the time, battery output, and then has a remote temp. sensor that's direct wired and can be placed anywhere within 3 feet. I placed this sensor in the engine bay about 2 inches away from the KnN Filter. If you look in the 2nd pic, about 2 inches to the left of the filter, you can see a little black 'probe' sticking up with a little red wire-tie holding it in place.

Using this system in this configuration for a little over a month now, I've seen where engine-bay temps have risen to over 63C when running but sitting still. When I flip the system on, within 2 minutes, the temps change to ambient outside temps every time without fail. Makes a world of difference.

I also added the one small fan to the upper vent to help exhaust the hot air out the top, and that works well and I will be adding the other one I have to the other side next time I take the Tupperware off to investigate everything a bit more just to see how its all holding up, should be a couple more weeks & I'll need to do another oil change & will check it all then. So far, so good.

Having a brand new 2013 vehicle still under full warranty, I can't recommend this cause I believe YES, BRP 'COULD' deny you If you had a warranty Claim concerning the engine or any of the systems this effect, so I tread lightly here, cause I don't want to be the cause of someone thinking this is the 'CURE' and then possibly having issues. My original warranty is up, and we do have the extended warranty & I use it when needed, but I've learned to do most of all my own maintenance and only take the sled to the shop when no other choice.

 

[CyncySpyder]

The RT (all Spyders in general I think) all have an AAPTS (Ambient Air Pressure/Temperature Sensor) located on the right side of the Frunk and should be located in a protective mesh type of holder. This is one of the reasons most RT ryders complain that their temp. gauges (LCD Display, not coolant temp gauge) usually show about 6 degrees higher than actual ambient temp readings from most banks, GPS etc... cause its reading the ambient temp that's trapped under the Tupperware of the Frunk, but not the high heat trapped in the engine bay. I did not move or relocate this sensor.

If you look in this pic, the little white tag hanging from a wire on the near side of the Frunk, that is the position of the OEM AAPTS that I was talking about. So while yes, it IS trapped under the Tupperware, but its forward of the engine compartment so it doesn't read those higher temps

 

[OldCowboy]

So here's my question. Are those owners of '13 Spyders (note the ' belongs on the left side of '13') really trying to solve their heat problems, or are they simply interested in bashing BRP, Spyders, and other Spyderlovers?

Here are a couple of observations:

In the vast majority of states, possibly all with the exception of California, motorcycles are not checked for EPA mandated pollution controls. This means these states could not care less if you remove the catalytic converter or add a Power Commander or Juice Box to richen your mixture. It would be very hard for BRP to argue that an overly rich mixture caused any type of engine damage.

There is no reliable poll that indicates '13 Spyders are having a significant heat problem. Spyderlovers is not a representative subgroup of all Spyder owners.

At least one of the "bashers" appears to have solved the heat problems, yet continues to berate BRP and other '13 Spyder owners who don't have heat problems.

I fully understand some owners have heat problems. But when the post's sole purpose is to bash BRP and all '13 Spyders and Spyder owners who don't have problems, it contributes to the problem rather than to the solution.

When someone posts, "I tried XXX and it didn't work," without any measurements at all, that is anecdotal evidence that can be discarded. "Butt Dynos" are notoriously inaccurate.

Rather than berating each other, how about working together to find a resolution?

 

[DrewNJ]

So here's my question. Are those owners of '13 Spyders (note the ' belongs on the left side of '13') really trying to solve their heat problems, or are they simply interested in bashing BRP, Spyders, and other Spyderlovers?

I don't see many people around here very interested in actively finding a solution.
I've already posted the very first, and very easy step in determining if the heat is related to motor tune on multiple threads. However, it all falls on deaf ears.
People around here seem more interested in arguing with each other, pointing fingers, and waiting for someone to fix it for them. Kinda sad.....




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dan McNally]

I took a day off to think about things, and realized that leaving Spyderlovers would only cost me the valuable information available here. I will, in the future, refrain from arguing, as it serves no useful purpose. That said, my original post was based on the post someone else made, where he increased airflow and reduced temps under the tupperware by removing his fog lights and putting in additional vents. Heat builds up under the tupperware, and, for some reason, some of us experience more heat than others. That is a fact, otherwise, all our master cylinders, charcoal canisters, and brake cables would have melted . . . or none of them would have melted. The simplest solution to resolve heat buildup is ventilation. My thought was that air scoops, similar to Veritka's, would add ventilation to the area inside the tupperware . . . and it would. Would it resolve all heat issues? No, probably not . . . but it would mitigate at least some of the heat. There was some discussion of the pros and cons of this, when a poster just had to add the old: "1. engines make heat. 2. bikes have engines. 3.engines make bikes hot. 4. nature of the beast. 5. fact of life." My response had to do with the fact that melting parts isn't normal. It was suggested that those of us with problems take our Spyders to a "competent" dealer and get them repaired . . . and I asked what steps that competent dealer could take - the poster, top date has not answered . . . most probably, because no one knows why some '13's have heat issues and some don't. Then other posters suggested that rather than bitching, we fix our bikes and stop blaming BRP . . . I never blamed BRP, and if someone cared to read all my posts, they would see that, frequently, I have expressed the opinion that my Spyder is the most fun I've had in my 60's. Also, not all of us have the technical ability to fix our bikes, ourselves . . . and, even if we did, what is the fix? I apoligize to all for my part in causing this arguement by starting a thread that wished for a part that I could buy and install that might, at least, mitigate some of the issues related to the heat. For the attackers, feel free to be that way, but I'll not rise to your bait, anymore . . . for those of you who do have the heat issue, and are searching for a fix, I am with you and am sure we will beat this thing, eventually. Yesterday, I took an old friend from my USAF days for a ride on the Spyder. We rode for about an hour in very cool temps . . . he was really impressed when we got back with the fact that I had a "heated seat!" I didn't burst his balloon . . . as I do have a heated seat . . . it just wasn't designed to be one!

 

[Bob Denman]

If ice cream won't do it; Who's up for some pizza?

The problem with pissing matches? EVERBODy'S shoes will eventually get wet... :gaah:
Yup; there's a problem! We're way past issues...
Yup! bikes have burnt!
Yup! Riders are uncomfortable..
Yup! It's too hot under the bodywork...
If we can all assume that I might have the above list correct; let's get the shirtsleeves rolled up, and get back to finding something that is at LEAST workable on the short-term...
Thanks guys! :thumbup:

"Rant Mode" off...

 

[Magdave]

In the vast majority of states, possibly all with the exception of California, motorcycles are not checked for EPA mandated pollution controls. This means these states could not care less if you remove the catalytic converter or add a Power Commander or Juice Box to richen your mixture. It would be very hard for BRP to argue that an overly rich mixture caused any type of engine damage.
So your solution is to ignore federal law and possibly void the warranty?
There is no reliable poll that indicates '13 Spyders are having a significant heat problem. Spyderlovers is not a representative subgroup of all Spyder owners.
Is any poll 100% reliable no but they do represent the average most of the time
At least one of the "bashers" appears to have solved the heat problems, yet continues to berate BRP and other '13 Spyder owners who don't have heat problems.
I suppose you mean me. I haven't "fixed" anything. I have controlled the symptoms of a deeper problem and may be causing others. Every action has a reaction
I fully understand some owners have heat problems. But when the post's sole purpose is to bash BRP and all '13 Spyders and Spyder owners who don't have problems, it contributes to the problem rather than to the solution.
As I posted elsewhere if you really think your bike does not have a problem take the recall tinfoil off and prove it to us. That would actually be helpful to prove that some are actually perfect. Are you willing to do that?


Rather than berating each other, how about working together to find a resolution?
And your addition to that is...berating others?

:thumbup:

 

[jwulf74]

I will qualify this with that we do not have '13's but I am curious about 1 thing. Maybe it is truly random and some have the heat problems and others do not, but we do have 2 2011's and with no appreciable difference between the 2 (basically bone stock other than a couple of cosmetic enhancements here and there), they do sound different and the blue one actually feels different on the butt dyno.

The main difference is that the red was built in April and the blue in June. After talking with one of the salesman who is really into Can-Am's other products (side-by-sides, snowmobiles, etc) he stated that they are constantly making revisions to just about everything as they produce these.

So my trouble shooting curiosity is this... are all of the 2013's experiencing issues made within the same month or range of months? It would take a while to collet the data and maybe BRP is already doing that, but if there is a commonality there, then the differences can hunted for. in theory everyone should have the latest software and the same hardware, but in reality there has to be something different somewhere.

I really liked CyncySpyders (and Ted's) idea of putting in some plumbing to pipe in fresh air to the KM intake. :bowdown:I plan on using his method on ours over the winter as funds and time permits. I'm also trying to find the proper fan to add to the right side upper radiator hole so that when switched on it will blow the hot air out past my foot when stopped or in slow traffic. No idea if it will help the hot foot problem, but I figure I will give it a shot. :dontknow:

The fall temps we have been experiencing made me glad to actually have a machine that puts out quite a bit of heat. We rode around Friday night and Saturday in mid-40's to mid-50's and did pretty well.

 

[poordom]

dave this is what i bought with the bottom vent also. i have not tried to install them yet because i don't know what is going on with the bike. i also bought the yellow 3 stage paint for them but don't want to paint them b4 i mount them so right now the set is sitting in my living room till i make a full decision about what i want to do. they are fiberglass and gene did a great job on them, for the bottom vents there are also 2 filler plates that fit in the upper and lower vent holes. really nice set up but for 1285.00 w/o paint they are very pricey

Really stuff, but way to rich for my pocket book.

Dom

 

[Bob Denman]

There are other options out there... Somebody posted a picture of Lamont's GS with a set of scoops over those vents. :thumbup:
Unfortuantely; I don't remember where he got them from... pps:

 

[quickster47]

One of the concerns I have for 2013 Spyders is that if we are able to get more air under the tupperware and around the engine, we are going to need a place for that air to exit and hopefully carry away some heat. An exit for the hot air is not something I have seen discussed but feel that this should be looked at because getting more air in with no place for it to go is not going to help the heat situation.

Carl

 

[Magdave]

One of the concerns I have for 2013 Spyders is that if we are able to get more air under the tupperware and around the engine, we are going to need a place for that air to exit and hopefully carry away some heat. An exit for the hot air is not something I have seen discussed but feel that this should be looked at because getting more air in with no place for it to go is not going to help the heat situation.

Carl

It will flow right out the back over the CAT just as it does now. Pulling the bottom plates is not a solution IMHO they are already open at the rear of them and there is a lot of wiring that was not set up like an open bike that can get wet and create future problems. These bikes are more complicated electronically than most and some of that is adverse to moisture. Doesn't everyone think if it were that easy (pulling the panels) to cool these down BRP would be telling dealers to do that. There is actually a low pressure area on the back of the bike when running down the road that sucks air out from under the Tupperware. The problem is BRP moved some components on the 2013 preventing areas from getting enough airflow going through.