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2012 vs 2013
- Thread starter Magdave
- Start date
Magdave
New member
It appears to me the movement of Canister and Ebrake and addition of "Primary muffler" ( I do not believe it is a cat) is the cause of our 2013 troubles.
The Primary Muffler is so huge it can cause more heat rise and air flow blockage. The RS has straight pipes not a monster like that. Moving the Ebrake up over the pipe was a bad choice and moving the canister forward and closer to the pipe too. Obviously they can't do much about the other 2 parts now beyond what they have done. I will bet the 2014 "Primary Muffler" will be a REAL catalytic convertor and us 2013 guys were crash test dummies for positioning it. Difference is we have a Vtwin with snaking pipes not a single pipe flowing down the center. All in all bad engineering and they really stuck it to us 2013 owners. I am starting to think the heat shielding will only temporarily fix the issue with the 2013 unless they remove the Pre Muffler to allow more airflow. Even then I have my doubts.
The Primary Muffler is so huge it can cause more heat rise and air flow blockage. The RS has straight pipes not a monster like that. Moving the Ebrake up over the pipe was a bad choice and moving the canister forward and closer to the pipe too. Obviously they can't do much about the other 2 parts now beyond what they have done. I will bet the 2014 "Primary Muffler" will be a REAL catalytic convertor and us 2013 guys were crash test dummies for positioning it. Difference is we have a Vtwin with snaking pipes not a single pipe flowing down the center. All in all bad engineering and they really stuck it to us 2013 owners. I am starting to think the heat shielding will only temporarily fix the issue with the 2013 unless they remove the Pre Muffler to allow more airflow. Even then I have my doubts.
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stewartj239
New member
In the 2013 diagram, what are the numbers for the canister, ebrake & pre-muffler. I think I know, but I haven't been that deep into mine yet to know for sure. Also, is it possible to remove the canister altogether?
Orange monster
New member
I spoke with the guy that does the by pass kit and my long term plan is to remove the cat and install the by pass along with an aftermarket pipe and high flow air cleaner. Just need power commander or someone to release a tuner for the 2013 RSS so I can correct the mixture after all the parts are replaced. The bike should run cooler and much stronger or at least I hope it would!
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stewartj239
New member
Thanks for that link. I've bookmarked it. Very helpful.
#20 is the cat. The cat removal kit replaces that part with a 2 into 1 "Y" pipe. That's the kit that costs $450, but I am trying to assess whether the return will be worth the cost.
Magdave
New member
But I do not see anything anywhere that says it is a "Cat" the RS has straight pipes. I would like to see somewhere that it is called a cat. I believe it is just a muffler. Lamont or Scotty correct me if I am wrong please.
I agree, I have 13 ST and want to remove the cat. can you give me the name and phone number of the guy who does the by pass kit.
Thanks, Bill
SNOOPY
Active member
Id like to know for the future as well.
I'm sure it's a warranty killer so would hold off for now.
stewartj239
New member
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
No matter what they called it, it is a cat. Can't pass EPA certification without it.
stewartj239
New member
I've been reading up on catalytic converters and here is a quote that I came across:
"The average light off temperature at which the catalytic converter begins to function ranges from 400 to 600 degrees F. The normal operating temperature can range up to 1,200 to 1,600 degrees F. But as the amount of pollutants in the exhaust go up, so does the converter's operating temperature."
That last sentence has me wondering if it is possibly why some 2013s have heat issues and others don't??? If the cat runs hotter for some reason (plugged, defective, or ?) could this be where the excess heat is coming from that is boiling gas and roasting the driver and passenger? I'm just throwing that out there.
Also, I've been reading that the exhaust manifolds typically run much cooler. On many bikes, they only run around 900 degrees. Again, I'm NOT saying this is fact, but this is why the internet is dangerous
"The average light off temperature at which the catalytic converter begins to function ranges from 400 to 600 degrees F. The normal operating temperature can range up to 1,200 to 1,600 degrees F. But as the amount of pollutants in the exhaust go up, so does the converter's operating temperature."
That last sentence has me wondering if it is possibly why some 2013s have heat issues and others don't??? If the cat runs hotter for some reason (plugged, defective, or ?) could this be where the excess heat is coming from that is boiling gas and roasting the driver and passenger? I'm just throwing that out there.
Also, I've been reading that the exhaust manifolds typically run much cooler. On many bikes, they only run around 900 degrees. Again, I'm NOT saying this is fact, but this is why the internet is dangerous
Orange monster
New member
That is the link to the bypass. I emailed them asking if it would fit the 2013 RS and they assured me it will. With the 2013 I believe you could put a muffler on with no tuning needed since with our bike the cat would still be in place so the muffler would really only affect sound. Once you remove the cat and replace the muffler and install the kewl metal intake system I'm sure you would need to change the mixture to prevent a lean condition. Power commander does not list a product for the 2013 yet and neither does juice Box.
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
CATs run hot, but the newer type with a catalytic mesh rather than granular fill runs cooler than the old type. The Spyder CAT is pretty small, too, so produces far less heat than the automotive units referenced. Keep in mind that your exhaust pipes near the engine can ru n at thes temperaturs, and are seldom less than 800 degrees. There is a lot more exhaust exposed under that body than there is CAT. You are still looking at little return for a lot of money and time invested. You are unlikely to get rid of the heat, you can only live with it or try to dilute it or redirect it. You think this thing runs hot? Try an air cooled engine sometime.I've been reading up on catalytic converters and here is a quote that I came across:
"The average light off temperature at which the catalytic converter begins to function ranges from 400 to 600 degrees F. The normal operating temperature can range up to 1,200 to 1,600 degrees F. But as the amount of pollutants in the exhaust go up, so does the converter's operating temperature."
That last sentence has me wondering if it is possibly why some 2013s have heat issues and others don't??? If the cat runs hotter for some reason (plugged, defective, or ?) could this be where the excess heat is coming from that is boiling gas and roasting the driver and passenger? I'm just throwing that out there.
Also, I've been reading that the exhaust manifolds typically run much cooler. On many bikes, they only run around 900 degrees. Again, I'm NOT saying this is fact, but this is why the internet is dangerous
Orange monster
New member
My sole purpose for removing the cat would be to try and improve the performance and sound of this machine. I would hope that removing the cat, installing a good performance muffler, and high flow intake with a good tune would result in atleast 10 more HP and 10 pf of torque. That would be enough to feel in the old butt dyno.:clap:
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