New ST Limited Stalling

[BikerDoc]

the general theme here seem to be when you have a minor problem - ryde the bike more and more before dashing back to the dealer... it may smiply be a break in issue and the dealer can't fix that.. I have seen this problem come and go with two new STs locally...

 

[mjw930]

While the throttle plate not responding correctly or various other problems could cause stalling, most of the time stalling when stopped/idle are fueling issues.

Your ECU learns how much fuel is needed at a given mass of air in order to run at the designed Air/Fuel ratio. It then modifies the injector pulse width by up to + or - 10% to compensate for both mechanical differences and environmental differences.

Every motor and environment is going to be a bit different and require differing amounts of fuel to keep the engine idling smoothly. You can be quite certain that your environment is different from the one the motor was born in. And that your motor will break in differently than someone else's.

The older GS manual said it can take up to 100 miles before it has collected enough data to learn how much it needs to tweak the injector pulses to achieve it's designed A/F ratio at idle.

Until then, it very well could stall or idle rough, or let out funny colored smoke. No mystery.

All three of my Spyders have done this when new. It's annoying, but it's a lot less irritating (or to some people, infuriating) once you understand what's happening and that it's temporary.

If it bugs you, take it to a decent dealer and ask.

Pretty much everything you've said is accurate however there is no excuse for a modern closed loop fuel injected motor to stall under normal operation. It stalls because something in the system is out of spec or the base map isn't fully developed. The fact it clears over time would seem to indicate they have overweighted the block learn tables in the idle RPM ranges but without the proper diagnostic equipment I can't help them diagnose the root cause. Another variable that has seemed to exasperate the problem is the drive by wire throttle. I can tell you from experience the addition of DBW makes for some interesting programming challenges. Interesting that the older cable based throttle bikes didn't have the issue.

FYI, I'm and engineer by trade and have a lot of experience programming automotive, marine and motorcycle EFI systems. Also, ask yourself if Harley, BMW, Ducati, Yamaha and MV Agusta's have stalling issues? They are all closed loop DBW EFI systems and none of them have stalling issues at idle or on tip in. Only BRP seems to have issues getting things dialed it. Luckily, the problem seems to clear over time which is why it's not become a major issue for them.

oh, and we love our ST-S so this is not a slam on the bike, just an observation by an educated consumer.

 

[Sny]

It stalls because something in the system is out of spec or the base map isn't fully developed. The fact it clears over time would seem to indicate they have overweighted the block learn tables in the idle RPM ranges

Absolutely correct. Those first few miles things ARE out of spec. An engine goes through a lot of changes in those first couple dozen miles as things literally "break in".

Engines from Harley don't have this problem because every engine is run on a test stand under load for 25 miles before they install it in a bike. Most manufacturers also have a pre-break-in run on their engines. BRP (more specifically Rotax) does not. They have instructed dealers to, get this, RIDE THEM 25 miles before giving them to a customer.

Who's going to want a bike with 25 miles on it? So, of course, none of the dealers do this. And there's a lot of teething issues as the engines go through the worst part of their break-in period. Those first 25 miles.

I'm not saying this is normal for all engines. But it is quite normal for blueprinted racing motors, which is why when we put them together we have to run them on the dyno for an hour before they see the track. And from what I've heard from a couple dealers, it's normal for Spyders.

 

[Jharpo]

Same Here

My new ST has never stalled but it misses like crazy if you take off slowly or drive really slowly like around a busy parking lot. Dealer could find no problem. I have almost 800 miles on it now. Hope it outgrows this problem. Until then, I'll just have to ryde FAST!

Mine did stall once while leaving a fuel stop but it runs really rough at very slow speeds, both forward and reverse. It feels like its going to stall any second when backing out of the garage. Dealer said there were no problems at 600 mile check up. I have 1200 miles now and it's still doing it.

 

[Sny]

Mine did stall once while leaving a fuel stop but it runs really rough at very slow speeds, both forward and reverse. It feels like its going to stall any second when backing out of the garage. Dealer said there were no problems at 600 mile check up. I have 1200 miles now and it's still doing it.

I'm guessing you have an SE5?

It's pretty normal for odd hesitations, shuddering and lurching at very low speeds during the first 2-3k miles. The transmissions take a while to smooth out and some never do.

Again, I wish it weren't so... but it is normal and common for these machines. Doesn't hurt anything unless it's extreme.

 

[SpyderMouse22]

This is interesting

I find these posts interesting. Last year I bought a 2012 RSS new. I had no starting or stalling issues ever. 2020 miles i put on that bike. This year I bought an ST Limited. No stalling issues and i have 697 miles on it. However if the bike is cold it will stall sometimes on the start. It never happens after the bike is warm. So in my opinion I think some of this computer has to learn and stuff may not be as big of issue but more so it the type of fuel you use. The owners manuel will tell you that you can run 89 oct. in the Spyder. I was told to run 91 and i do. I think the type of fuel you run is a factor. I just thought i would throw this out there.

 

[mcaccamise]

This appears to be more of a problem with the SE5 rather than the SM5 mine a 2012 RSS SM5 has never stalled and having the cable throttle helps.
TBW seems to be an issue also especially on the 2013 modles as ive heard of them being verry touchy i hope these new spyders make their new owners verry happy so they will love to ryde.
Mike

 

[Jharpo]

Fuel grade not it.

I find these posts interesting. Last year I bought a 2012 RSS new. I had no starting or stalling issues ever. 2020 miles i put on that bike. This year I bought an ST Limited. No stalling issues and i have 697 miles on it. However if the bike is cold it will stall sometimes on the start. It never happens after the bike is warm. So in my opinion I think some of this computer has to learn and stuff may not be as big of issue but more so it the type of fuel you use. The owners manuel will tell you that you can run 89 oct. in the Spyder. I was told to run 91 and i do. I think the type of fuel you run is a factor. I just thought i would throw this out there.

Fuel grade isn't the problem. My ST Limited has never had anything but Premium Grade of major brand (Mobil, Shell, Exxon) which in Florida is 92 octane. Wish it was that simple.

 

[SpyderMouse22]

Fuel grade isn't the problem. My ST Limited has never had anything but Premium Grade of major brand (Mobil, Shell, Exxon) which in Florida is 92 octane. Wish it was that simple.

Well i guess i got lucky with my 2 Spyders then or my computer learened what it needed to know real fast. I think any machine stalling out in first gear is a real problem and I hope to read more on this issue. Just because i dont have it now doesnt mean I wont have it tomorrow. I use Sunoco 91

 

[AutumnCat]

Interesting I came across this thread tonight.

I finally had a chance to take out my new ST-L for a short ride. I brought it home from the dealer over a week ago - parked it in the garage due to weather and other issues.

Today - I neared the end of our street and slowed down a bit before stopping. I think I was in 2nd gear when I noticed it had "died. Stalled!
I was hesitant to take it on my errand - but, it started back up fine. So, off I went.

I'm hoping it is not an issue and is only because it's new and had been sitting. No idea what type gas the dealer put in - haven't run that out yet.

Never had this happen on my '09 SE5.

 

[54spyder]

We took delivery of our 2013 Spyder ST last week and have had multiple stalls at stop signs in our neighborhood and in our driveway. I am glad that we were in a controlled environment and not out in town or else I might have panicked. We have over 100 miles on the Spyder and we have not had a stall for some time. Glad I found this forum & thread as I feel much better now if it happens again.

 

[Spyder Tony]

My new ST has never stalled but it misses like crazy if you take off slowly or drive really slowly like around a busy parking lot. Dealer could find no problem. I have almost 800 miles on it now. Hope it outgrows this problem. Until then, I'll just have to ryde FAST!

I had the EXACT same problem. During the 600mile service i asked the tech to check into it and i was told there was air in the system. they bled the system and no more missing at low idle. A poster mentioned on the post i did on this problem that it is a known issue and a bulletin had been issued. I cannot recall who posted the info, but perhaps another member does.

 

[rabtech]

how could you have air in fuel system? Maybe in brake line but not in constant flowing fuel system. Or am I missing something that is on a spyder that I have never heard of before.

Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!

 

[Mets79ST2013]

Stalling

I have had my ST Limited for 11 days and it has stalled 3 times while sitting in 1st gear. :yikes: It has started back up with no issue, but I am just wondering if anyone else has had an issue and if I should be concerned. Unfortunately my dealer can't get me in for three weeks, :banghead: so the first service is being done by another shop so we can go to Cody for the May long weekend. Any information, advise etc. is much appreciated. :cheers: Thanks Lori

I have my ST for two month now it did the same the first 200 miles, now at 3255 miles is doing great and is not stalling anymore, but if I leave it outside the garage when is hot oh boy the CHECK ENGINE goes off immediately, but hang in there the stalling will go away.

 

[Magdave]

Mine has stalled several times too and I asked the tech about it and he said that the new motors were "tight" and it should get better as you put more miles on it. I must say mine seems to be cured at 3000 miles. :dontknow:

+1

 

[retired1]

Just a thought! With all of the heat problems on the '13s, could there possibly be a "vapor lock" problem? Back in the day, I don't remember what vehicle it was, we clipped a wooden clothes pin on the gas line between the fuel pump and carburetor. That solved the "vapor lock" problem. It may sound like "Voodoo" or an "old wifes tale", but it worked!:thumbup:

 

[rabtech]

mine would stall in a air conditioned garage when it was new. i could back it out and start it and it would die while idling . it hasn't died since it turned a few hundred miles...:clap:

 

[Spyder Tony]

how could you have air in fuel system? Maybe in brake line but not in constant flowing fuel system. Or am I missing something that is on a spyder that I have never heard of before.

Sent from my Galaxy S3. I may have made a spelling error or may have some grammer issues. My fingers are way to big to type on this tiny screen!

You will have to pose that question to the mechanics at Elk Grove Powersports. I cannot attest to the accuracy of the statement, but I can definitely attest to the outcome. The mechanic did not specify the "fuel system" but rather said "the system". Once I had test driven the bike and was more than pleased, I did not question further as I had the results I sought.

Unfortunately, I am still in the formative stages of my Can Am mechanical knowledge as my bike (first one owned) is brand new & under warranty, thus I have not had occasion to crack open the tupperware myself to do any maintenance/modding. At this point, the only one to have seen under my Nikki's "skirt" is Forrest at Elk Grove Autosports. I am sure this will change as time goes on hyea:

 

[JacqueTanis]

Hmmmm

Mine stalled once but then I realized I hit the Kill Switch - pps: Duh!

 

[Flamewinger]

My new ST L stalled quite often, almost every time I went somewhere it cut out and I had to quickly start it up again. When I took it into the dealer for the 600 mile service I told him about it and they must've done something because it's no longer stalling. So if you have any questions call Elk Grove Powersports in Elk Grove California.