Advantages/Disadvantages of Auto or manual Transmissions?

[Sarge707]

I Have both-09SE5 and 2012RT Manual.
I love having both _Keeps my brain busy- Like the downshifting around corners on the manual- Only thing I could do without on the Manual is the Initial start in 1st gear? Would not win a drag race with it.

SE5 is Also great and requires little thought so I can "Day Dream" More- Fast as L through the gears BUT have to change 2 filters.

If somneone GAVE me $1,500 dollars the day I bought the RT I would have got another Auto BUT that being said I,m happy I have the Opportunity to drive Auto one day and Manual the next day!!!!!!!!!:bowdown:

 

[billybovine]

I have to disagree

The clutches in the SE 5 trannys don't fully lock up until you get them up to about 4000 rpm... If you loaf along with the clutches slipping; you'll burn them. :shocked:
The SM 5 trannys don't have this setup, so it's not an issue with them...

But I sure do love my ESSIE!

I hate to be nit picky Bob but the published stall speed on the SE5 centrifugal is 3200 +/-200 rpm. So you can be assured it is not slipping at 3400 rpm and above. But 4000 rpm is important because when you up shift at that rpm it will drop 600 to 3400 rpm and there is no margin left.

 

[NancysToy]

I hate to be nit picky Bob but the published stall speed on the SE5 centrifugal is 3200 +/-200 rpm. So you can be assured it is not slipping at 3400 rpm and above. But 4000 rpm is important because when you up shift at that rpm it will drop 600 to 3400 rpm and there is no margin left.

View attachment 65381

It will drop more than that in some gears, so 4,500 is safer. Although we can nit-pic the stall point and shift points, for most owners it is safest just to round off the numbers to the nearest 500.

 

[daveinva]

I was referring to the filter and additional labor charges at oil changes and any other adjustment or calibration requirements.

Oh, that? How much does that cost when compared to draining and replacing the clutch fluid, both done on two year cycles?

We're nit-picking by anecdote here.

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Oh, that? How much does that cost when compared to draining and replacing the clutch fluid, both done on two year cycles?

We're nit-picking by anecdote here.

Not sure. Just posting what the service department told me. Not trying to say mine's better than yours. Just helping the OP decide. If I'm way off base, than I stand corrected. There are others way more experienced and knowledgable than me on this forum who could chime in. There's however no way to deny the SE is more complicated. With complication comes other caveats. That's not to say the SE Isn't an equally good choice and for some the only way they could even ride.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Chupaca]

Great..!!t

Are you totally confused yet..?? Seems all are happy with what they have. In the end you will have to decide. Good points have been made but in the end I want to control when to shift when I can coast when to slip the clutch. In other words I want yo be in control and if something fails I will know who to blame...just me..:thumbup:

 

[NancysToy]

First, let me point out that it is not a difference between an manual transmission and an automatic transmission. It is manual shifting and a manual clutch...or a combination of electronic shifting, a throttle blipper, and an additional centrifugal clutch mechanism to disengage at idle speeds. Same transmission on both models. You are still in control, although the SE will downshift automatically if you do not do it manually. There are more parts and complexity with the semi-auto, but the reliability has been good for either. There are a few additional maintenance parts and a bit more oil in the semi, but those extra costs are quite small. Unlike an automatic transmission, there is no loss of power, mileage, or performance with the SE if the rpm level is kept in the proper range, in fact performance can be somewhat enhanced with the quicker shifts.

The answer is to ride both, keep an open mind, and see what suits you best. Remember to shift at 4,000-4,500 rpm or higher, and hold the throttle steady instead of backing it off as with a manual. It will likely surprise you and please you. A great many long time manual clutch users have been won over by the SE, including our famous Lamonster. Try it, you may like it. The only reason I have not tried one is that with 25 other motorcycles, my poor aged brain just cannot manage to remember one more thing. After 50+ years it knows about clutches, and where the foot lever is, but not about paddle shifters on the handlebars. If your brain is younger or more agile, and you don't switch back and forth, you should learn in short order.

 

[vtspyder]

While riding last summer with other fellow GS/RS owners, the automatics seemed to run hotter on the temp gauge than the manuals. We couldn't contribute it to any other factors. There were 3 manuals & 2 autos in our group & both automatics ran much hotter, at least 2 bars higher on the gauge.

That's interesting. I never could figure out why my wife's se5 would run hotter than my sm5. Even when my machine was bone stock (hers is as well) her se5 would always be 1-2 bars hotter on the gauge.

I think it's a matter of personal preference. If you want to ride and leave your brain at home:hun:, get the se5. Really nice in traffic as well. No sacrifice in sportiness or responsiveness from what I can tell.

 

[mjw930]

I am considering buying an RS-S with the Auto/Paddle shifting system and Reverse but as all my experience to date has been with traditional manual shifting clutch systems I am a little nervous about going to this Auto transmission.

Are there any known issues or problems that pop up with one more often than the other? Anything to watch out for if I test drive one with an Auto?

FYI, both Spyders come with reverse, they just engage differently. And as others have pointed out, this is not an automatic transmission, it's an auto/manual with the difference being the electro mechanical control of the clutch and shifter.

If you are a long time rider then you should have no issue with the manual and since you are talking about an RS you don't have the difference between floorboards and pegs like the ST and RT.

Ride them both and see which you prefer. My wife preferred the SE5, it let her focus on the ride and not the shifting since she had limited experience on 2 wheels. I thought I would prefer the SM5 but honestly, I would buy the SE5 if I were to get one for myself. Just like I'm leaning towards a PDK on my next Porsche and I've been a manual transmission bigot for 40 years.

These aren't your fathers automatics

 

[daveinva]

First, let me point out that it is not a difference between an manual transmission and an automatic transmission. It is manual shifting and a manual clutch...or a combination of electronic shifting, a throttle blipper, and an additional centrifugal clutch mechanism to disengage at idle speeds. Same transmission on both models. You are still in control, although the SE will downshift automatically if you do not do it manually. There are more parts and complexity with the semi-auto, but the reliability has been good for either. There are a few additional maintenance parts and a bit more oil in the semi, but those extra costs are quite small. Unlike an automatic transmission, there is no loss of power, mileage, or performance with the SE if the rpm level is kept in the proper range, in fact performance can be somewhat enhanced with the quicker shifts.

The answer is to ride both, keep an open mind, and see what suits you best. Remember to shift at 4,000-4,500 rpm or higher, and hold the throttle steady instead of backing it off as with a manual. It will likely surprise you and please you. A great many long time manual clutch users have been won over by the SE, including our famous Lamonster. Try it, you may like it. The only reason I have not tried one is that with 25 other motorcycles, my poor aged brain just cannot manage to remember one more thing. After 50+ years it knows about clutches, and where the foot lever is, but not about paddle shifters on the handlebars. If your brain is younger or more agile, and you don't switch back and forth, you should learn in short order.

As always, the smartest man in the room, ladies and gentlemen! :thumbup:

 

[billybovine]

my mistake

It will drop more than that in some gears, so 4,500 is safer. Although we can nit-pic the stall point and shift points, for most owners it is safest just to round off the numbers to the nearest 500.

First I was right about keeping it above 3400 rpm, but I was wrong about the rpm drop on an up shift. Shame on me for not doing the math. Thanks for catching that Scotty.

 

[SpyderFun]

It will drop more than that in some gears, so 4,500 is safer. Although we can nit-pic the stall point and shift points, for most owners it is safest just to round off the numbers to the nearest 500.

One thing that was not mentioned about the RPM level is that, per the RTS Maintenance Manual, the charging system requires the RPM to be at or above 4k to prevent draining the battery. I believe this holds true regardless of model or transmission. So as long as your RPMs are at or above 4k - NO WORRIES!



-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

 

[Jeriatric]

One thing that was not mentioned about the RPM level is that, per the RTS Maintenance Manual, the charging system requires the RPM to be at or above 4k to prevent draining the battery. I believe this holds true regardless of model or transmission. So as long as your RPMs are at or above 4k - NO WORRIES!



-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

Have always been a 4K advocate. KISS.....ya know :roflblack:

 

[NancysToy]

One thing that was not mentioned about the RPM level is that, per the RTS Maintenance Manual, the charging system requires the RPM to be at or above 4k to prevent draining the battery. I believe this holds true regardless of model or transmission. So as long as your RPMs are at or above 4k - NO WORRIES!



-Mike
<Sent using Tapatalk>

Your shop manual must be a lot different than mine. Everything I have says only that the magneto output at 4,000 rpm is about half the rated wattage. That is sufficient to charge the battery, unless you have a lot of accessories. The reason they use a magneto (permanent magnet alternator) is that it charges at a lower rpm and is heat resistant.

 

[MuGGzy]

Thanks to all the responses, I am really glad this is such an active forum!

I have decided to go with the RS-S SE5, I pick it up tonight and I am pretty jazzed about the impending adventures. It's been a LONG time since I could hit the road on a bike and one of these seem like a great compromise (if you could even consider it such) for someone like myself that has a loving wife that will not get on a 2 wheel bike and strongly discourages me from riding one in general out of concern for my safety.:thumbup:

 

[ARtraveler]

Thanks to all the responses, I am really glad this is such an active forum!

I have decided to go with the RS-S SE5, I pick it up tonight and I am pretty jazzed about the impending adventures. It's been a LONG time since I could hit the road on a bike and one of these seem like a great compromise (if you could even consider it such) for someone like myself that has a loving wife that will not get on a 2 wheel bike and strongly discourages me from riding one in general out of concern for my safety.:thumbup:

Post us some pictures of the new :spyder2:. :congrats:

 

[spydaman60]

Thanks to all the responses, I am really glad this is such an active forum!

I have decided to go with the RS-S SE5, I pick it up tonight and I am pretty jazzed about the impending adventures. It's been a LONG time since I could hit the road on a bike and one of these seem like a great compromise (if you could even consider it such) for someone like myself that has a loving wife that will not get on a 2 wheel bike and strongly discourages me from riding one in general out of concern for my safety.:thumbup:

. my wife would have never gotten on a two wheeler with me. she knows that I have a bad knee and once in a while it buckles out from under me. she rode with me last year every chance she got and logged over 4000 miles on the big orange machine. good luck with your wife and hope she tries it and likes it as much as mine!:2thumbs:

 

[Tazzel]

The engine STOP switch. BRP even suggests it be used to stop the engine before turning the key off. It's a good habit to get into, and may, save your bacon.

my dealer told me not to use the Kill switch, just the key to turn on and off. In fact I have owned serveral bikes and all advice to not use the Kill switch because they are prone to frying.

 

[Jeriatric]

To use or not to use?

my dealer told me not to use the Kill switch, just the key to turn on and off. In fact I have owned serveral bikes and all advice to not use the Kill switch because they are prone to frying.

Nothing personal towards you. OK!

But your dealer is nuts. It clearly states it be used in the owners manual and why. Have yet to hear of one ever frying. It's just a toggle switch, and it would be covered under warranty anyway.

If you choose not to use it. That's your choice.

Personally I think it's very wise to use it, because in the case of an "emergency' shut down would be as simple as a reflex....instead of the fog of panic.

 

[ABQAndy]

I love the SE5, never have to think about whether I am in 1st gear at a stop light, just hit the throttle and go.