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Engine Locked Down, BRP Want Cover Under Warranty

I am also kind of on the ride here. The dealer and BRP should look into the repair and cover it under warranty IF it can be determined that the modifications were not the cause of the problem in the first place. The problem lies within the fact that how do they determine that?

Modifications open the door to these kinds of problems. Heck, my dealer wont even install non-BRP tires on the Spyder.
 
Just as an FYI... the TBR fuel controller is advertised as NOT being able to lean out the fuel mixture. If that is the case, I don't see how the controller can cause a lean mixture and overheating.

That is the only thing about a fuel controller that can possibly do damage... a lean fuel mixture.
 
The dealer should have looked at the problem and determined the cause before asking BRP if it would be covered, with the customers explicit understanding that if the mods caused the issue they would be responsible for all labor and parts charges. The dealer didn't have to tell BRP about the mods at all IMO until/unless they were determined to be the cause of failure. At which point the customer should be responsible for the repairs.
 
I agree, but what about what I said above? Shouldn't the Spyder owner sign an agreement to pay all the costs associated with diagnosing the problem if it turns out it is his fault? I believe I agree with what you are saying, but if, in fact, the manufacturer/dealer say oops.. your fault - now pay us for the time it took us to figure this out - won't he only be more steamed, i.e. throwing good money after bad so to speak? I also believe that the manufacturer/dealer wins a tie, i.e. could have been our problem, could have been your problem.

It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer).

I think I have seen other people post on this FORUM they would not contemplate major MODS before the warranty runs out. Technically, any MODS might violate the agreement with the manufacturer. So he is behind the 8-ball to begin with based upon what he signed. The one fact no one is disputing is: he made MODS that affected the mechanical operation of his Spyder. That is not adding L.E.D.s to your Spyder.

P.S. If they can agree on doing the diagnosis with the customer paying the costs if the MODS may have contributed to his problem, I would get him to pay the estimate upfront. Just remember, my words are "may have contributed to his problem". They do not have to prove beyond a doubt his MODS didn't cause the problem - they are not responsible for figuring that out for him. He has to make his own case. He made the MODS not them.


Few weeks ago, I agreed with an insurance company. Now I am agreeing with a manufacturer (sort of).



Pigs are flying in central Ohio.

Check out : Magnuson-Moss Act Of 1975
 
Being the Devils Advocate, I would think when you Illegally Modified a Spyder; ie Tampering with an emission device, Removing the cat' O2 mod. etc, The dealer and or BRP can refuse to work on that Spyder . And I'm sure BRP's lawyers would 'if push came to shove also point out that the finds for tampering reach into the ten's of thousands. Just saying.


A jersey devil no less!!:roflblack:
 
Everyone can have a lot of suggestions as to what you should or shouldn't do, but the facts still stand...you had a modification done to your Spyder and almost every manufacturer of autos or motorcycles will void any and all warranties if mods are done to their product. Sure, we can all insist that each case should be taken individually, but that would be very time consuming and would result in tying up the small claims courts to no end...So the reason for the blanket coverall...any mod to the product voids the warranty...Period.
You can go ahead and hire a lawyer, but I think you will lose. The dealer may have installed the mods you had done, but that doesn't put them on any blame...you wanted it done, they did it, and you paid them.
And if you read through all the papers you got from BRP when you purchased the Spyder you will probably see a written their disclaimer if the Spyder is modified.
 
Everyone can have a lot of suggestions as to what you should or shouldn't do, but the facts still stand...you had a modification done to your Spyder and almost every manufacturer of autos or motorcycles will void any and all warranties if mods are done to their product. Sure, we can all insist that each case should be taken individually, but that would be very time consuming and would result in tying up the small claims courts to no end...So the reason for the blanket coverall...any mod to the product voids the warranty...Period.
You can go ahead and hire a lawyer, but I think you will lose. The dealer may have installed the mods you had done, but that doesn't put them on any blame...you wanted it done, they did it, and you paid them.
And if you read through all the papers you got from BRP when you purchased the Spyder you will probably see a written their disclaimer if the Spyder is modified.
:agree: When I picked my Spyder up after my Only problem they noticed I had ESI Double Play and Center Light and informed me that was Nice BUT if I have any electrical problems (In The Future?) BRP is not going to cover that type of problem since I have after market electronics installed!
My problem was not related to electronics and was fixed.
 
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egine lock down

I too have been having trouble with BRP an my 2011 spyder-rts it's been in shop several times an I to have caught :cus: from some pepole on here.My wife an I went on our first trip 2 weeks ago while on trip I found out that the VSC an DPS also computer not working. I could start egnine with waiting for comp. to come on at all in any gear.Service teck that unloaded saw an noted start probleman DPS prob. after 1 week in shop the BRP ser rep stoped taking my phone call. the dealer I bought it from told me that BRP said that the buds showed no problem with spyder so I told the ser maneger at Big#1 to put it in writing no safety problems with my spyder :gaah: and he said he had more checking to do:banghead::mad: I still think we need to start a class action! pete
 
I too have been having trouble with BRP an my 2011 spyder-rts it's been in shop several times an I to have caught :cus: from some pepole on here.My wife an I went on our first trip 2 weeks ago while on trip I found out that the VSC an DPS also computer not working. I could start egnine with waiting for comp. to come on at all in any gear.Service teck that unloaded saw an noted start probleman DPS prob. after 1 week in shop the BRP ser rep stoped taking my phone call. the dealer I bought it from told me that BRP said that the buds showed no problem with spyder so I told the ser maneger at Big#1 to put it in writing no safety problems with my spyder :gaah: and he said he had more checking to do:banghead::mad: I still think we need to start a class action! pete


A class action??? Go ahead. You got a few suggestions that you should seek another dealer and work from there. You keep going back to one that can't or won't fix the problem. Seems like what you want to hear is that we will all sign on the class action with you....WRONG!
 
I had the same problem when my spyder caught fire the first year and my transmission went bad they would not cover it because i had mods. I paid for a transmission rebuild and the automatic transmission stills has problems must be my crazy riding style or my body weight on the transmission making it stay in gear and sometimes not shifting...lol. I have almost 70000 miles and affair to ride anymore because i know the engine is next to go. Yes i am complaining so no need to here anyone's smart comments...and thanks for listing.
 
Dealer Obligation

....It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer)...


Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

1st, If a product is under warranty it is from the manufacturer (BRP) not necessarily the dealer. The manufacturer (not dealer) MUST honor their own warranty. To that end, ANY authorized dealer that can do the work should. They then are reimbursed by BRP for honoring THEIR warranty - NOT a dealer specific warranty.

2nd, The problem is that it is NOT clear it is the owners fault because no individual can specifically point to and say, "It failed because your unauthorized modification caused this component right here to fail due to _______". Simply saying it failed because a mod was done clearly fails to show proof the mod was the culprit of the failure or premature failure.

3rd, Regardless of WHERE or WHO you bought your BRP product from, BRP authorizes their dealers to act as their agent to explain and endorse their warranty(s) upon purchase. Any dealer saying they refuse to do warranty work on a BRP product they didn't sell you seems to me that they do more harm to the name "BRP" than good. Not having a qualified tech or tools to repair products they advertise they work on is false advertising and should be reported to both BRP and your local BBB.

4th, If the failure is found to be the result of said unauthorized mod, then it by definition is NOT a warranty issue and becomes the financial responsibility of the owner.

NOTE: BRP does not offer a back rest for people who need it due to having a physical disability. Modifying your seat at the owners expense (i.e. a Corbin or cutting into the BRP seat to install a back rest), is a mod that is a reasonable accommodation that could be argued under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and would not void the remaining manufacturer warranty.
 
The dealer may have installed the mods you had done, but that doesn't put them on any blame...you wanted it done, they did it, and you paid them.
QUOTE]

As the Lawyers always say ''Not necessarily so''
The dealer is the ''expert'' [in the eyes of the law] And if the customer wants something installed or removed like a cat which is illegal it is his duty to refuse to do it, So if he doesn't refuse and something gos wrong the dealer will then be on the hook!!
 
Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

1st, If a product is under warranty it is from the manufacturer (BRP) not necessarily the dealer. The manufacturer (not dealer) MUST honor their own warranty. To that end, ANY authorized dealer that can do the work should. They then are reimbursed by BRP for honoring THEIR warranty - NOT a dealer specific warranty.

2nd, The problem is that it is NOT clear it is the owners fault because no individual can specifically point to and say, "It failed because your unauthorized modification caused this component right here to fail due to _______". Simply saying it failed because a mod was done clearly fails to show proof the mod was the culprit of the failure or premature failure.

3rd, Regardless of WHERE or WHO you bought your BRP product from, BRP authorizes their dealers to act as their agent to explain and endorse their warranty(s) upon purchase. Any dealer saying they refuse to do warranty work on a BRP product they didn't sell you seems to me that they do more harm to the name "BRP" than good. Not having a qualified tech or tools to repair products they advertise they work on is false advertising and should be reported to both BRP and your local BBB.

4th, If the failure is found to be the result of said unauthorized mod, then it by definition is NOT a warranty issue and becomes the financial responsibility of the owner.

NOTE: BRP does not offer a back rest for people who need it due to having a physical disability. Modifying your seat at the owners expense (i.e. a Corbin or cutting into the BRP seat to install a back rest), is a mod that is a reasonable accommodation that could be argued under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and would not void the remaining manufacturer warranty.

:agree: Dale
 
Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

1st, If a product is under warranty it is from the manufacturer (BRP) not necessarily the dealer. The manufacturer (not dealer) MUST honor their own warranty. To that end, ANY authorized dealer that can do the work should. They then are reimbursed by BRP for honoring THEIR warranty - NOT a dealer specific warranty. RESPONSE: THE POINT IS, THE MANUFACTURER SAYS IT IS NOT UNDER WARRANTY. WHATEVER WARRANTY HE HAD WAS VOIDED BY HIS MODS. YOU ARE USING A CIRCULAR ARGUMENT. YOU ARE SUGGESTING THERE IS A WARRANTY UNLESS THEY CAN PROVE THE MOD IS RESPONSIBLE. THEY ARE INVOKING THE LANGUAGE IN THEIR WARRANTY THAT VOIDS WARRANTY COVERAGE IF THERE WERE MODS PERFORMED ON THE SPYDER. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE IT ANY FURTHER THEN THAT BASED UPON AN AGREED FACT: THE ENGINE WAS MODIFIED.

2nd, The problem is that it is NOT clear it is the owners fault because no individual can specifically point to and say, "It failed because your unauthorized modification caused this component right here to fail due to _______". Simply saying it failed because a mod was done clearly fails to show proof the mod was the culprit of the failure or premature failure. RESPONSE: APPARENTLY THERE IS A COMMON BELIEF THAT THE MANUFACTURER MUST DO MORE THEN THEY HAVE DONE IN THIS CASE. THE POLICY SAYS "MODS VOID THE WARRANTY". END OF STORY. BASED UPON THEIR POSITION, THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO TRY TO DETERMINE THE CAUSE OF HIS PROBLEM. THE ONE FACT WE ARE ALL AGREEING ON (MANUFACTURER, SPYDER OWNER, YOU & I) IS HE HAD MODS INSTALLED ON HIS SPYDER. WE ALL AGREE ON THAT. SOME OF US ARE OF THE OPINION IT IS THE MANUFACTURER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE IF THOSE MODS CAUSED AND/OR CONTRIBUTED TO THE PROBLEM. I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST THEY ARE UNDER NO RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SO. IF THE SPYDER OWNER WANTS TO HIRE HIS OWN ATTORNEY AND EXPERTS TO CONTRADICT THE EFFECTS OF HIS MODS, HE IS FREE TO DO SO. BUT WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE OF THE OPINION THE MANUFACTURER DO THIS ON HIS BEHALF? AS I SUGGESTED EARLIER, ADDING A L.E.D. LIGHT IS A LOT DIFFERENT THEN TINKERING WITH THE MECHANICS OF THE ENGINE.

3rd, Regardless of WHERE or WHO you bought your BRP product from, BRP authorizes their dealers to act as their agent to explain and endorse their warranty(s) upon purchase. Any dealer saying they refuse to do warranty work on a BRP product they didn't sell you seems to me that they do more harm to the name "BRP" than good. Not having a qualified tech or tools to repair products they advertise they work on is false advertising and should be reported to both BRP and your local BBB. RESPONSE: FRANCHISED DEALERS MUST HONOR THEIR AGREEMENTS WITH THE MANUFACTURER, INCLUDING DOING WARRANTY WORK FOR NON-CUSTOMERS. MANY STATES HAVE MOTOR VEHICLE DEALER BOARDS. IF A DEALER IS NOT HONORING HIS OBLIGATION, THE MANUFACTURER SHOULD BE CONTACTED AS WELL AS THE DEALER BOARD. ALSO, MANY STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS HAVE A SECTION CALLED CONSUMER SALES PRACTICES WHICH MIGHT BE HELPFUL. IN REGARDS TO DEALERS HONORING WARRANTY WORK FOR NON-CUSTOMERS, MY LOCAL DEALER SELLS A TON OF MOTORCYCLES, JET SKIS, ATV'S, ETC. BECAUSE THE NATURE OF THEIR BUSINESS IS SEASONAL, GETTING HELP IN THE SPRING IS DIFFICULT. HOW DO YOU ARGUE THE DEALER IS SCREWING WITH YOU ON WARRANTY REPAIRS IF WE ARE TALKING WEEKS INSTEAD OF DAYS? WHEN I SCHEDULED MY 600 MILE SERVICE, I HAD TO WAIT 2 AND HALF WEEKS TO GET MY SPYDER IN AND I KNOW THE DEALER WASN'T SCREWING WITH ME. HE WAS JUST THAT BUSY.

4th, If the failure is found to be the result of said unauthorized mod, then it by definition is NOT a warranty issue and becomes the financial responsibility of the owner. RESPONSE: BUT IF YOU ARE PLACING THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE MANUFACTURER/DEALER TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION, I HUMBLY DISAGREE WITH YOU. THEY HAVE MADE A DETERMINATION (BASED ON ANOTHER PROVISION OF THEIR WARRANTY DOCUMENT), I.E. MODS VOID THE WARRANTY. WHY WOULD THEY GO ANY FURTHER THEN THEY HAVE? ONCE THEY START AGREEING TO MORE THEN THEY ARE LEGALLY REQUIRED, THEN THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY UNILATERALLY CHANGING THE TERMS OF THEIR WARRANTY AND WOULD BE EXPECTED TO EXTEND THAT SAME COURTESY TO EVERY SPYDER OWNER. THEY CAN'T CHANGE THEIR WARRANTY, AFTER THE FACT, TO LESSEN THE BENEFIT TO THE BUYER, BUT NOTHING PREVENTS THEM FROM EXTENDING THEIR WARRANTY COVERAGE BEYOND THE TERMS IF THEY WANT TO FOR A PARTICULAR CUSTOMER. BUT WHY WOULD THEY ASSUME THIS ADDITIONAL LIABILITY VOLUNTARILY?

NOTE: BRP does not offer a back rest for people who need it due to having a physical disability. Modifying your seat at the owners expense (i.e. a Corbin or cutting into the BRP seat to install a back rest), is a mod that is a reasonable accommodation that could be argued under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and would not void the remaining manufacturer warranty. RESPONSE: I AGREE IT WOULD BE FOOLISH FOR BRP TO TAKE THEIR POLCIES TO THE EXTREME. PENALIZING SOMEONE FOR A MOD THAT IN NO WAY COULD HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE MECHANICS OF THE SPYDER WOULD DESTROY ANY GOODWILL THEY WOULD WISH TO CULTIVATE WITH PRESENT AND FUTURE CUSTOMERS. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MECHANICAL CHANGES TO THE ENGINE. GIVING EXAMPLES (APPLES AND ORANGES COMPARISONS) IS INTERESTING, BUT DOES NOT MITIGATE THE FACT MECHANICAL CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE WAY THE ENGINE PERFORMS AND NOW THIS SPYDER OWNER IS HAVING MECHANICAL PROBLEMS.

I have a novel idea --- don't do MODS like this until the warranty expires. And when a warranty suggests MODS will void your warranty -- consider that before you make the MODS and then be prepared to accept the consequences if you do make MODS to your SPYDER.
 
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It is not pleasant to suggest a Spyderlover member is wrong.

A lot of BRP Kool aid drinkers in here. :banghead:
It is not pleasant to suggest a Spyderlover member is wrong. It is not drinking Kool Aid to disagree with a Spyderlover.

P.S. Kool Aid is the registered trademark of Kraft Foods, a wholly owned subsidiary of Kraft Brands, and is protected under the laws of the United States and many other countries which are signatories of various trademark agreements. Your use of Kool Aid is inflammatory and intended to inflict harm on those towards whom your post is directed. Kraft Brands orders you to desist and refrain from using their trademark in a defamatory and malicious manner. ALSO, IT VOIDS YOUR SPYDER WARRANTY.

Just kidding.
 
...RESPONSE: THE POINT IS, THE MANUFACTURER SAYS IT IS NOT UNDER WARRANTY. WHATEVER WARRANTY HE HAD WAS VOIDED BY HIS MODS. YOU ARE USING A CIRCULAR ARGUMENT. YOU ARE SUGGESTING THERE IS A WARRANTY UNLESS THEY CAN PROVE THE MOD IS RESPONSIBLE. THEY ARE INVOKING THE LANGUAGE IN THEIR WARRANTY THAT VOIDS WARRANTY COVERAGE IF THERE WERE MODS PERFORMED ON THE SPYDER. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE IT ANY FURTHER THEN THAT BASED UPON AN AGREED FACT: THE ENGINE WAS MODIFIED...


Whether or not the language within the warranty voids the warranty in its entirity is a legal decision to be made by an authority higher than this forum can offer. As an example, our country debates healthcare reform and its legality as it is written. Some argue it is legal while others say not. Now the US Supreme Court will decide it for all.

My point is just because BRP says so, does not mean it is so. I am sure their legal beagles assert their warranty language is iron clad while a judge may disagree with their assertion and rule differently. Keep an open mind.
 
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