Doing your own maintenance

[Minister]

Great

For those worried about warranty coverage when doing your own maintenance----- there have been many out here that have done their own maintenance and had major engine repairs done under warranty. I have yet to hear of BRP denying warranty work on those engines or them asking for any records.

That's good to know as I plan to do my own maintenance!

 

[BajaRon]

Ok, I'm convinced I'd be crazy not to at least do this 3K oil change myself. Seems all the info I need is in the Owner's Manual.

It also seems VERY convenient with BajaRon selling the seals and filters as a "kit" so I will email him (I assume he still doesn't have a website) with an order tomorrow after I make certain I understand a few things.

One of the things I need to get a grip on is the motor oil. I have always used Mobil 1 synthetic 20/50 for V-twin in my Sportster and the stock HD filter. I find the air cooled 1200 runs a bit cooler with synth and it gives me peace of mind when I have to fudge a little before the next oil change.

Now I know I would be opening a can of worms just to throw the question out there "what oil do you recommend" so I am not going to do that. I just want to know if there will be a problem using Mobil 1 for V-twins in my Spyder along with using the filter kit from Baja?

Here is one time I may disagree with Scotty, depending on the intent of his statement that 20w-50 is way too heavy. I do not think 20w-50 is going to do any damage (or fail to lubricate) your Spyder in any significant way. There are advantages to a heavier oil, and there are advantages to a lighter oil.

I would agree that 20w-50 is much heavier than what the Spyder motor requires. Rule of thumb is use the lightest oil you can that will give you optimum protection. Engineers spend a lot of time calculating this and it is probably in our overall best interest to follow their recommendations. Service ratings are more important than viscosity as long as you are not using an oil with less viscosity than recommended

The problem with Mobil 1 is the service rating (basically the wet clutch issue).

I think it wise to stick with a properly rated 5w-40 or 10w-40 oil. But using a correctly rated 20w-50 oil in your Spyder isn't going to hurt it. You'll give up some fuel mileage and cold start flow, and shifting may be a bit heavier. But the oil will certainly do the job.

 

[BajaRon]

That's good to know as I plan to do my own maintenance!

Typically, if the damage is due to an improper lubricant, or if the maintenance period has obviously been exceeded, you will have troble gettting warranty coverage. For example, if the clutch has been damaged by slippage, and you've been running a non-wet clutch application oil, then you're going to pay for the repair.

But if you've done it right and done it on time (not a rocket science project by any means), there should be no problem getting warranty coverage.

As stated before, entire engines have been replaced on warranty where the owner has done all their own (non dealer required) maintenance.

 

[Firefly]

Many here do their own maintenance and I'm sure do a great job...however, the biggest concern is if you have an engine problem, you cannot prove anything was ever done to maintain it. At the dealership, they keep a record so if you have to make a warranty claim, you can.

Actually the burden is on the dealer to prove neglect in order to deny warranty coverage..... customer protection laws here in the USA--- :thumbup:
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[Firefly]

Typically, if the damage is due to an improper lubricant, or if the maintenance period has obviously been exceeded, you will have troble gettting warranty coverage. For example, if the clutch has been damaged by slippage, and you've been running a non-wet clutch application oil, then you're going to pay for the repair.

But if you've done it right and done it on time (not a rocket science project by any means), there should be no problem getting warranty coverage.

As stated before, entire engines have been replaced on warranty where the owner has done all their own (non dealer required) maintenance.

Not sure clutch is a good example as they often consider it a wear item like brake pads and thus don't cover it anyway. Really not sure how BRP deals with them under BEST ----:dontknow:

 

[Lunar Rover]

I hate to admit financial difficulties but because of reasons I won't get into I have to really count my change. That being said, I have been racking up so many miles on my RS that I cannot afford to take it to the dealer for the scheduled maintenance. It seems like it wasn't even a month ago I dropped almost 300.00 at the stealership for the 600 mile maintenance and I due for the next one already.

What are the pro's and con's of doing it yourself? Do many of you here do your own wrenching? I'm mechanically inclined enough to handle oil changes and such. I'm a little concerned about the effect on the warranty and pitfalls that I might need to be aware of.

My wife and I do (or plan to do) oil changes, filter, coolant, spark plugs, break pads and discs etc. As a policy we won't touch the engine. I can't speak to anything about the warranty, I'd check the terms and conditions of the warranty itself though I can't imagine voiding the warranty by replacing oil or break pads. We've even skipped valve checks because we've noticed from several other people's posts that it's just not as necessary as the book says it is. However, you should do what you feel is right. Thankfully you have lots of opinions on this forum from people who care and may be in similar situations.

Good luck.

:2thumbs:

 

[NancysToy]

Here is one time I may disagree with Scotty, depending on the intent of his statement that 20w-50 is way too heavy. I do not think 20w-50 is going to do any damage (or fail to lubricate) your Spyder in any significant way. There are advantages to a heavier oil, and there are advantages to a lighter oil.

I would agree that 20w-50 is much heavier than what the Spyder motor requires. Rule of thumb is use the lightest oil you can that will give you optimum protection. Engineers spend a lot of time calculating this and it is probably in our overall best interest to follow their recommendations. Service ratings are more important than viscosity as long as you are not using an oil with less viscosity than recommended

The problem with Mobil 1 is the service rating (basically the wet clutch issue).

I think it wise to stick with a properly rated 5w-40 or 10w-40 oil. But using a correctly rated 20w-50 oil in your Spyder isn't going to hurt it. You'll give up some fuel mileage and cold start flow, and shifting may be a bit heavier. But the oil will certainly do the job.

I don't think we really disagree...and my point may have been too strongly stated. The idea is that a 20W-50 is two cold viscosity ratings, and one upper viscosity rating, thicker than the recommended oil. That is a lot in my climate...although maybe not so much in a hot place like Florida, Arizona, or Texas. I would worry mostly about possible shifting issues with an SE, but there also could be clutch related differences, as well as close tolerance clearance issues, excessive oil pressure, and even oil flow problems. These types of problems would be more likely with a dino oil than a full synthetic. The most likely result would actually only be slightly decreased fuel mileage due to added engine friction. The owner should, of course, realize that warranty coverage could be jeapordized, but that situation is not all that likely, IMO. The bottom line is that the owner has to evaluate the risks and trade-offs, and make his/her own decision. I might go one step away from the manufacturer's recommendations, but I would hesitate to move two...at least up North. I would also hesitate to use an API SM oil that is prohibited by the manufacturer. That is me. Your results may vary.

 

[M2Wild]

Stick to the recommended rating or risk thouusands. Your choice.:doorag: After all, I thought we are doing this to save $$$, not trying to blow up the bike and spend $$$$$ more.

 

[boborgera]

Heavy [heavier] oil means more fiction which means more ware, Most engine ware occurs at start up, And in cold climates heavy oil will not flow well on start up. Also heavy oil will decrease MPG's Which means the engine is working harder at any given speed.

 

[BajaRon]

Not sure clutch is a good example as they often consider it a wear item like brake pads and thus don't cover it anyway. Really not sure how BRP deals with them under BEST ----:dontknow:

Very good point. The clutch is a wear item. Even using the absolute, by the book stuff probably will not get you any warranty coverage there. Especially if it's just the friction disks that need replacment.

Maybe a defective clutch basket, shaft bearing, etc. would get coverage.

But the idea, of course, is to avoid unnecessary problems so you don't need the warranty coverage.

I don't think we really disagree...and my point may have been too strongly stated. The idea is that a 20W-50 is two cold viscosity ratings, and one upper viscosity rating, thicker than the recommended oil. That is a lot in my climate...although maybe not so much in a hot place like Florida, Arizona, or Texas. I would worry mostly about possible shifting issues with an SE, but there also could be clutch related differences, as well as close tolerance clearance issues, excessive oil pressure, and even oil flow problems. These types of problems would be more likely with a dino oil than a full synthetic. The most likely result would actually only be slightly decreased fuel mileage due to added engine friction. The owner should, of course, realize that warranty coverage could be jeapordized, but that situation is not all that likely, IMO. The bottom line is that the owner has to evaluate the risks and trade-offs, and make his/her own decision. I might go one step away from the manufacturer's recommendations, but I would hesitate to move two...at least up North. I would also hesitate to use an API SM oil that is prohibited by the manufacturer. That is me. Your results may vary.

I thought this is where you were coming from, so we do agree after all! Since a 20w-50 oil is unlikely to create any warranty issues it would be highly unlikly, and unjustified, for BRP to withhold warranty work for that reason alone.

I've run 20w-50 in motorcycle wet clutch engines that called for 10w-30, 15w-40 with no problems at all. Took just a bit longer for shifting to be smooth on colder days but I wanted the extra protection for long desert runs.

As far as shifting on the SE, I have my doubts that 20w-50 would be a problem but if it were, replacing it with a lighter weight oil would be the extent of 'damage'.

I do not intend to run 20w-50 in my Spyder but if that's all I had at the time I wouldn't worry about it either.

And, of course, we always agree that an oil that does not meet the required API rating be used. But some variation in viscosity (to the heavier side) and API ratings are two very different things. One is simply less than ideal and the other is an invitation to trouble, both with the bike and with warranty coverage.

Stick to the recommended rating or risk thouusands. Your choice.:doorag: After all, I thought we are doing this to save $$$, not trying to blow up the bike and spend $$$$$ more.

This really is my point. I am not saying people should use 20w-50 oil. Only that it isn't going to blow anything up, it isn't going to cost you or void your warranty. Just trying to get a right perspective on what viscosity does, or does not do, in an engine.

Viscosity and API ratings are 2 very different things. If you stray from the correct API rating then you really are asking for trouble. But bumping up the viscosity some isn't going to give you big issues. Even with the SE I'm not sure shifting would be all that negatively affected. They build these with a fair range of effective viscosity compatablity.

Heavy [heavier] oil means more fiction which means more ware, Most engine ware occurs at start up, And in cold climates heavy oil will not flow well on start up. Also heavy oil will decrease MPG's Which means the engine is working harder at any given speed.

Not exactly. I think we are lumping fluid drag (which is a non-wearing friction) and metal to metal contact (friction which causes wear) together. They are not the same thing.

A heavier viscosity actually puts more distance between metal parts (like gears, pistons/rings to cylinder wall, bearings to race, etc). This will give you less wear (in conditions where a lighter viscosity lubricant will fail to prevent metal to metal contact) or the same amount of wear in conditions where the lighter lubricant is sufficient. But it isn't going to give you more wear.

Engineers design friction parts and speck out lubricants so that ideally, there is never any metal to metal contact. They speck out the lightest grade oil that will achieve this because of the advantages that ligher oils give you. Going too light will increase metal to metal contact giving you a shorter life span. Going to heavy will save your parts but reduce fuel mileage and possibly giving less than ideal functionallity (like shifting).

The heavier oil will give you greater fluid drag. This increased drag is easy to understand. Stir a bucket of water and then stir a bucket of paint. The paint will take a bit more effort. Same thing happens on a smaller scale in an engine. It takes a bit more effort and your fuel mileage may suffer slightly. Maybe so slighlty that you don't even notice.

So yes, technically the engine is working harder with a heavier oil. But putting a larger windshield on your Spyder will probaby give you 10 times the added drag, more wear and affect fuel mileage much more than using 20w-50 oil.

Heavier oil will also increase oil pressure. But there is releaf valving in the pressure system that prevents overpressure so this is really not an issue.

What the engineers do is create a pump that will deliver ample oil and oil pressure at idle. With increased RPM you're going to get increased flow and pressure. Our Spyders go from about 1500 RPM at idle to over 9,000 RPM. Even with 5w-40 oil your are going to exceed the desired oil pressure at 9,000 RPM with a closed system. Normally there are at least 2 releaf systems to bypass oil once maximum oil pressure is achieved. 1 in the Oil Filter system and another in the oil pump or somewhere else in the system.

It is true that the lions share of wear comes at cold start-up. But a heavier oil will cling to parts (not run off) much better than a lighter oil. So at start-up there is less need for immediate oil delivery with a heavier oil than with a lighter oil. This is one area where a full synthetic oil shines. Leaving a better protective shield on parts for a longer period than standard oils.

I am sure we have exceeded :bdh: specs with this tread but you never know till you give it a try.

 

[jedd]

I've read every reply and I agree with all of them. Only thing I wanna know is what type of windshield washer fluid to use, and what our fan belt deflection should be:roflblack::roflblack:

Just kidding wanted to get my 600th post with a little humor

As you were:shocked:

Jim:thumbup:

 

[BajaRon]

I've read every reply and I agree with all of them. Only thing I wanna know is what type of windshield washer fluid to use, and what our fan belt deflection should be:roflblack::roflblack:

Just kidding wanted to get my 600th post with a little humor

As you were:shocked:

Jim:thumbup:

Be sure to use 100% full synthetic windshield washer fluid with the correct API rating. If you don't your wiper blades will foul and you void your muffler bearing warranty for sure!

You can cut the fan belt and throw it away. Just a HP robber anyway!

 

[jedd]

Be sure to use 100% full synthetic windshield washer fluid with the correct API rating. If you don't your wiper blades will foul and you void your muffler bearing warranty for sure!

You can cut the fan belt and throw it away. Just a HP robber anyway!

Awesome thanks Bro this site rocks and always a great help:2thumbs:

Jim:thumbup:

 

[BajaRon]

Awesome thanks Bro this site rocks and always a great help:2thumbs:

Jim:thumbup:

No problem! Anytime! I'm here to help!

Have I told you about the throttle body inserts? They hold these rare earth, chemically balanced pellets that give you 100+ miles to the gallon. By ionizing the incoming air and aligning the oxygen molecules... Well, I'm not completely sure how they work exactly, but you can take my word for it....

 

[Star Cruiser]

Oil changes are pretty routine. I, like you, find they are very frequent. about one a month. with the service at the dealer, they always do a thorough inspection and BUDS check. I figure that a lot of people only bring the Spyder in every two or three months becaue of hte lower milage they put on. I do my oil change now (Lamonster has a great how to video) and bring it to the dealer for every other oil change. get the thorough go over every two months but save the labour costs when I do it. It;s about $60 to do it myself, and $200 for the alternate service. that is a savings of over $400 for the 6 - 7 months of riding that I get to do up here (April - October)

 

[IWN2RYD]

Unreal... Hey Baja... How is it that you failed to tell him about the maintenance the Muffler Bearing needs every 1500 miles? Good Lord, what is this forum coming to...


























:shemademe_smilie::roflblack::bowdown::yes: :firstplace: hyea:opcorn:

 

[vtspyder]

I hate to admit financial difficulties but because of reasons I won't get into I have to really count my change. That being said, I have been racking up so many miles on my RS that I cannot afford to take it to the dealer for the scheduled maintenance. It seems like it wasn't even a month ago I dropped almost 300.00 at the stealership for the 600 mile maintenance and I due for the next one already.

What are the pro's and con's of doing it yourself? Do many of you here do your own wrenching? I'm mechanically inclined enough to handle oil changes and such. I'm a little concerned about the effect on the warranty and pitfalls that I might need to be aware of.

Your avatar is wicked! Startled me though as it reminded me of my ex wife on the day of our divorce. :joke:

 

[fleegeds]

It is true that the lions share of wear comes at cold start-up. But a heavier oil will cling to parts (not run off) much better than a lighter oil. So at start-up there is less need for immediate oil delivery with a heavier oil than with a lighter oil. This is one area where a full synthetic oil shines. Leaving a better protective shield on parts for a longer period than standard oils.

What do you guys think of oil additives like Lukas product? On the bottle it says you can use it at a 10% in a wet clutch system. I the the webbing effect is makes the cold start ups less damaging but does it interfere with the clutches to much? :dontknow:

 

[bone crusher]

Actually the burden is on the dealer to prove neglect in order to deny warranty coverage..... customer protection laws here in the USA--- :thumbup:
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I agree with that, but you have a potential problem if the dealer is not cooperating...they can say that 'it looks like the oil hasn't been changed in 10,000 miles' or something like that...and you can do little to prove them wrong...

Then you have to go through a serious headache. Sure, you are in the right, but it might be a stressful situation.

I'm just sayin'...

 

[BajaRon]

What do you guys think of oil additives like Lukas product? On the bottle it says you can use it at a 10% in a wet clutch system. I the the webbing effect is makes the cold start ups less damaging but does it interfere with the clutches to much? :dontknow:

Just my opinion but additives of any kind can be problematic. Most really do nothing or very little. Some can give you negative effects and a very few will give you the improvement you're looking for.

If you use a good, true full synthetic oil you're going to get extremely good protection. Very good oils have been meticulously made to give you exactly what you need.

It's like your mothers perfect pie. Do you really want to add unknown ingredients? What are the chances you can improve on that pie? Not likely.

There are a few additives that I've found actually work. Sea Foam fuel treatment is very good. Especially with this junk Ethanol fuel they make us use these days that soaks up water like a sponge (very bad in high humidify areas).

The only way you’ll know about an additive is to try it in your Spyder. If it works you probably won’t know. If it doesn’t, you may know pretty quickly.

If your clutch slips and you change out your oil quickly, you should be fine. If you run it with a slipping clutch you'll need a new one in pretty short order.