Amsoil in the SE5 ?

[SNSTRO]

Ok.. I am getting ready to do my first oil change and I have
AMSOIL 10w-40 and filters I ordered from Ken.. I have a 2008 SE5 GS Alot of posts say Amsoil is the best.. BUT..
I have also recently read posts on here about different kinds of oil and
many have said that now Mobil 1 and Amsoil have cause Clutch Damage and that one should stick with BRP's oil or Castrol Synthetic..

I just read a New post Today that said Amsoil caused clutch failure in a SE5 RS..
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26899&highlight=amsoil

Can anyone give me some advice/answers about this because I dont want to put anything in My Spyder thats going to cause damage to it..

All this "What Oil is Best?" :dontknow: "This Oil Ruined My Clutch" :cus: "Dont use this Oil!":lecturef_smilie: stuff is :gaah: :helpsmilie:

 

[nudle]

:2thumbs: Use oil that is formulated for motorcycles and you won't have a problem.

 

[IWN2RYD]

Oil is always a subject that brings the best and worst in a lot of us.

Simply put. The burden of proof that the Oil was NOT the cause of failure is on us. Run what comes in the bikes and the rest is their issue. :thumbup:

 

[BIKEMIKE]

AMSOIL

I don't have a spyder at this time but I have been running Amsoil in my bike since it had 8000 miles now 42000 miles changing oil every 8000 miles double the change time. The compression has not changed since then( check every 6mo ) motor is still stock with more power than I need for the wife and me. I can't see where it would be any different:dontknow: in the spyder. but I also remember running car oil in by 70s motorcycles with no problems. Just my in put.

 

[johnandginger]

correct oil

Ok.. I am getting ready to do my first oil change and I have
AMSOIL 10w-40 and filters I ordered from Ken.. I have a 2008 SE5 GS Alot of posts say Amsoil is the best.. BUT..
I have also recently read posts on here about different kinds of oil and
many have said that now Mobil 1 and Amsoil have cause Clutch Damage and that one should stick with BRP's oil or Castrol Synthetic..

I just read a New post Today that said Amsoil caused clutch failure in a SE5 RS..
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26899&highlight=amsoil

Can anyone give me some advice/answers about this because I dont want to put anything in My Spyder thats going to cause damage to it..

All this "What Oil is Best?" :dontknow: "This Oil Ruined My Clutch" :cus: "Dont use this Oil!":lecturef_smilie: stuff is :gaah: :helpsmilie:

I currently use AMSOIL in my 2008 se5,have had no problems (look in owners manual for correct type of oil-BRP OIL OR EQIVALENT )

 

[Raptor]

Amsoil Meets BRP Spec...

Here is the API Spec for Amsoil:

SAE 10W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (MCF)
Performance specifications include:API SG, SL/CF, CG-4; JASO MA/MA2; ISO-L-EMA2; API GL-1

In the Spyder owner's manual they call for API service spec SL, SJ, SH and SG classification, which Amsoil clearly meets.

 

[IWN2RYD]

I don't have a spyder at this time but I have been running Amsoil in my bike since it had 8000 miles now 42000 miles changing oil every 8000 miles double the change time. The compression has not changed since then( check every 6mo ) motor is still stock with more power than I need for the wife and me. I can't see where it would be any different:dontknow: in the spyder. but I also remember running car oil in by 70s motorcycles with no problems. Just my in put.

Solid input... One difference in this situation... The SE5 clutches are oiled with the engine oil. It is a closed loop of sorts. So just because an Oil works flawlessly in an engine does not mean it will work with the clutches...

And as many have stated... Many oils meet the specs BRP has outlined.

Bottom line remains. Burden of proof is on the user, not BRP...:cus:

 

[Campverdefela]

Solid input... One difference in this situation... The SE5 clutches are oiled with the engine oil. It is a closed loop of sorts. So just because an Oil works flawlessly in an engine does not mean it will work with the clutches...

And as many have stated... Many oils meet the specs BRP has outlined.

Bottom line remains. Burden of proof is on the user, not BRP...:cus:

I disagree, the burden of proof is on BRP as long as the oil used meets their specs, and it does.

 

[IWN2RYD]

I disagree, the burden of proof is on BRP as long as the oil used meets their specs, and it does.

lol... Ok...

Each to their own. It is still our burden to bear when they fight us. We are however on the same page as to what we as consumers read the laws to say. The issue is the Manufactures have a few more attorneys than we do. And what is the effort worth vs. just using what they provide? Especially during the warranty periods. That is my point. Here is a recent similar issue. http://www.aftermarket.org/News/01-04-11_1.aspx

 

[Dudley]

I used Royal Purple 10W40 automotive oil for 43,000 miles on our 2008 SE5 without any issues related to oil. When I traded for a 2010 RT, the clutch had started to slip at times. The tech told me that when he looked at it, the springs were just worn out. And in addition, the valves were checked before resale and no adjustment was necessary...43,000 miles! I am now using the same oil in RT.

 

[boborgera]

Ok.. .

All this "What Oil is Best?" :dontknow: "This Oil Ruined My Clutch" :cus: "Dont use this Oil!":lecturef_smilie: stuff is :gaah: :helpsmilie:

:dontknow:
It's not Rocket Science, If your that worried or unsure as to which oil to use Just get the oil from your dealer then you'll won't have to worry.
BUT like said in previous post If it meets the Spec's it's good to use.
As far as brands go it's sough of like soda Some like Coke some like Pepsi' then there's the oddballs who prefer RC.:roflblack:

 

[Marker]

When it says on bike oil labels that "this oil is not suited for wet clutch applications" then I assume that it cannot be used in any spyder period . I have seen other labels on bike oil that says "this oil is suitable for wet clutch applications" then it can be used in any spyder because the same oil that is used for the motor is also used for the clutch as long as the oil meets or exceeds BRP specs for oil. Is this correct ? I am by no means an expert or a mechanic. if I was going to use any other oil than BRP oil I would call the tech line for the oil that I wanted to use to see what they have to say.

 

[BajaRon]

Solid input... One difference in this situation... The SE5 clutches are oiled with the engine oil. It is a closed loop of sorts. So just because an Oil works flawlessly in an engine does not mean it will work with the clutches...

And as many have stated... Many oils meet the specs BRP has outlined.

Bottom line remains. Burden of proof is on the user, not BRP...:cus:

All clutch components of all Spyders are lubricated with the engine oil, as is the transmission. The SE5 is different only in that it is electronically shifted instead of manually shifted.

Amsoil, like any other oil, has products made for different applications. If you get the automotive version that does not meet the wet clutch specs you're going to have clutch issues with any oil you use, no matter how good it is.

Amsoil, formulated for wet clutch applications, will work as good or better than any oil on the market.

The wet clutch slippage rating scale begins at MB, then MA, MA1, and MA2. MB being the most clutch slippage prone, and MA2 provides the best protection against clutch slippage. Amsoil Motorcycle Oil is rated MA2, (Best wet clutch rating possible) and it is at the upper end of this rating (less slippage potential than an oil near the MA1 and MA2 break point).

Amsoil will lubricate and protect your transmission better (less friction, less wear, less heat) than anything BRP sells. If your clutch or any lubricated part fails with Amsoil, then it was a defective part and would have failed sooner with BRP oil.

I've been using Amsoil 10w-40 for over 15,000 miles, Lamont has a lot more miles on his Spyders using Amsoil than I do (pulling a trailer as well). You will not have clutch slippage issues with Amsoil unless there is something, non oil related, wrong with your clutch.

BRP is selling Castrol Blended Motorcycle oil. You can buy the same oil for less at Wal-Mart. You can probably get the Castrol Full Synthetic for less there too.

 

[Marker]

All clutch components of all Spyders are lubricated with the engine oil, as is the transmission. The SE5 is different only in that it is electronically shifted instead of manually shifted.

Amsoil, like any other oil, has products made for different applications. If you get the automotive version that does not meed the wet clutch specs you're going to have clutch issues with any oil you use, no matter how good it is.

Amsoil, formulated for wet clutch applications, will work as good or better than any oil on the market.

The wet clutch slippage rating scale begins at MB, then MA, MA1, and MA2. MB being the most clutch slippage prone, and MA2 provides the best protection against clutch slippage. Amsoil Motorcycle Oil is rated MA2, (Best wet clutch rating possible) and it is at the upper end of this rating (less slippage potential than an oil near the MA1 and MA2 break point).

Amsoil will lubricate and protect your transmission (less friction, less wear, less heat) than anything BRP sells. If your clutch or any lubricated part fails with Amsoil, then it was a defective part and would have failed sooner with BRP oil.

I've been using Amsoil 10w-40 for over 15,000 miles, Lamont has a lot more miles on his Spyders using Amsoil than I do (pulling a trailer as well). You will not have clutch slippage issues with Amsoil unless there is something, non oil related, wrong with your clutch.

BRP is selling Castrol Blended Motorcycle oil. You can buy the same oil for less at Wal-Mart. You can probably get the Castrol Full Synthetic for less there too.

When it says on bike oil labels that "this oil is not suited for wet clutch applications" then I assume that it cannot be used in any spyder period . I have seen other labels on bike oil that says "this oil is suitable for wet clutch applications" then it can be used in any spyder because the same oil that is used for the motor is also used for the clutch as long as the oil meets or exceeds BRP specs for oil. Is this correct ? I am by no means an expert or a mechanic. if I was going to use any other oil than BRP oil I would call the tech line for the oil that I wanted to use to see what they have to say.

Thanks BajaRon , you answered my question from my previous post :2thumbs:

 

[darren]

Oil is always a subject that brings the best and worst in a lot of us.

Simply put. The burden of proof that the Oil was NOT the cause of failure is on us. Run what comes in the bikes and the rest is their issue. :thumbup:

Thats right run what they say to, yes motorcycle branded oils are more then likely fine to run in the spyder engine and don't forget that the rotex engine brand is also run in the bmw 800cc also aprilia rsv i think they use a differant brand of oil to service there brand yet it's from the same rotex factory. But the one reason Im sticking to brp summer oil is that the se5 transmision is not the same as a std manual gear box it use's a system which is far more advanced then the std gear box. Just like fords and GM they can only run one grade of transmision oil which is made to suit these transmisions, so I feel that just maybe BRP may have additives to work better in the se5 transmission, so after just installing a new engine Im sticking with brp products.
BUT use what you think is best, and sometime a little extra cost may help in the long run
Cheers

 

[BajaRon]

Thats right run what they say to, yes motorcycle branded oils are more then likely fine to run in the spyder engine and don't forget that the rotex engine brand is also run in the bmw 800cc also aprilia rsv i think they use a differant brand of oil to service there brand yet it's from the same rotex factory. But the one reason Im sticking to brp summer oil is that the se5 transmision is not the same as a std manual gear box it use's a system which is far more advanced then the std gear box. Just like fords and GM they can only run one grade of transmision oil which is made to suit these transmisions, so I feel that just maybe BRP may have additives to work better in the se5 transmission, so after just installing a new engine Im sticking with brp products.
BUT use what you think is best, and sometime a little extra cost may help in the long run
Cheers

BRP, Rotax, Can-Am, none of them make or produce an engine oil. They purchase generic oil that meets their requirements, put it into a different container and sell it as 'Factory Oil'. It is not a special or specific product developed for the Rotax engine.

I am not saying it's not a good oil. I'm just saying that typically, buying the same, identical product in the generic bottle will cost you less money. Or, you can buy a better product for the same money you're spending on the Castrol in a BRP container.

Blended just means they put some really good oil in with a larger volume of less expensive oil. It is like mixing 30% pristine artesian water with 70% tap water. Is it a better product than straight tap water? Sure, but wouldn't it be better to pay a little more for 100% artesian?

The only thing BRP about BRP oil is the container that you throw away.

By the way, neither Ford or GM make oil either. They simply put a generic oil that meets their specifications into in a Ford or GM bottle and charge more for it than you would pay for the same thing at Wal-Mart. They make money and the customer feels good about paying too much for the product because they think they are getting something extra.

It's called 'Marketing' and it works very well.

 

[IWN2RYD]

All clutch components of all Spyders are lubricated with the engine oil, as is the transmission. The SE5 is different only in that it is electronically shifted instead of manually shifted.

Amsoil, like any other oil, has products made for different applications. If you get the automotive version that does not meet the wet clutch specs you're going to have clutch issues with any oil you use, no matter how good it is.

Amsoil, formulated for wet clutch applications, will work as good or better than any oil on the market.

The wet clutch slippage rating scale begins at MB, then MA, MA1, and MA2. MB being the most clutch slippage prone, and MA2 provides the best protection against clutch slippage. Amsoil Motorcycle Oil is rated MA2, (Best wet clutch rating possible) and it is at the upper end of this rating (less slippage potential than an oil near the MA1 and MA2 break point).

Amsoil will lubricate and protect your transmission better (less friction, less wear, less heat) than anything BRP sells. If your clutch or any lubricated part fails with Amsoil, then it was a defective part and would have failed sooner with BRP oil.

I've been using Amsoil 10w-40 for over 15,000 miles, Lamont has a lot more miles on his Spyders using Amsoil than I do (pulling a trailer as well). You will not have clutch slippage issues with Amsoil unless there is something, non oil related, wrong with your clutch.

BRP is selling Castrol Blended Motorcycle oil. You can buy the same oil for less at Wal-Mart. You can probably get the Castrol Full Synthetic for less there too.

I will try to not write a wall of text here. But you seem to feel I have attacked your precious Amsoil. I am not and have no need to. It is a damn fine product. Used it for over 15 years.

However I stopped because I had to take Ford to court after their third engine repair (Attempt) blew up on the road 11 miles from their shop, endangering my life (Literally the engine exploded and oil slicked my tires in a very dangerous part of a windy hilly road). $13k dollars, 21 months and three Attorneys (Team) later, we won. They claimed it was the Amsoil. We fought to prove them wrong.

That is why I say the burden of proof is on us. If the Big Boy companies want to make a stand or hope we will cry uncle in hopes we give up so they can take a cheaper way out, they will. PERIOD.

The problem is it can be a P.I.T.A. Even HONDA USA has put folks through this even though we have laws saying what we all know.

My point is the burden of proof or effort required to force Companies to do it right if they take the low road at first.

I am not attacking oil brands.

I think to many folks here fail to read the entire post(s) folks make before they decide to respond.

Yes of course the trans and etc etc etc use the oil. My point was simple. No 1977 vehicle was even close to the design or tolerance these Spyders are built by and use today. I was not going into detail as to each and every part that gets touched by the oil.

 

[BajaRon]

I will try to not write a wall of text here. But you seem to feel I have attacked your precious Amsoil. I am not and have no need to. It is a damn fine product. Used it for over 15 years.

However I stopped because I had to take Ford to court after their third engine repair (Attempt) blew up on the road 11 miles from their shop, endangering my life (Literally the engine exploded and oil slicked my tires in a very dangerous part of a windy hilly road). $13k dollars, 21 months and three Attorneys (Team) later, we won. They claimed it was the Amsoil. We fought to prove them wrong.

That is why I say the burden of proof is on us. If the Big Boy companies want to make a stand or hope we will cry uncle in hopes we give up so they can take a cheaper way out, they will. PERIOD.

The problem is it can be a P.I.T.A. Even HONDA USA has put folks through this even though we have laws saying what we all know.

My point is the burden of proof or effort required to force Companies to do it right if they take the low road at first.

I am not attacking oil brands.

I think to many folks here fail to read the entire post(s) folks make before they decide to respond.

Yes of course the trans and etc etc etc use the oil. My point was simple. No 1977 vehicle was even close to the design or tolerance these Spyders are built by and use today. I was not going into detail as to each and every part that gets touched by the oil.

I think we are talking about 2 different things here.

Amsoil is good, I use it, but I don't consider it precious. There are many good oils out there, Amsoil being just one. For example, I think Castrol makes a decent product for the money as well.

My only point is that people are paying too much for lubricants that come in the vehicle manufacturer's container. Deceptive marketing leads them to believe that it was made by Ford, GM, BRP, etc., specifically for their machine. And this is just not true.

If people know the facts and they still want to buy Dealer oil that's fine. I simply think people should be informed.

The original post asked if Amsoil was causing clutch damage. I guess I took the long way around to say 'No'.

I never attempted to address engine failure and who bears the burden of proof in a court case. This is another matter altogther for which I have no personal experience.

I guess my perspective is that if you use a superior lubricant, your chances of engine failure are reduced. Even if you use only Dealer oil in the manufacturer's container doesn't mean their high dollar lawyers won't find another reason why it wasn't their fault.

 

[bjt]

... doesn't mean their high dollar lawyers won't find another reason why it wasn't their fault.

No matter what the case. Most companies will start off with the tact that the issue is not their fault. The highly venerated Toyota started off saying (and I think they still claim that) their cars were not at fault in the unintended acceleration problems.

 

[Roadkill]

AMSOIL

... Can anyone give me some advice/answers about this because I dont want to put anything in My Spyder thats going to cause damage to it..

+Thankfully, in addition to quality, AMSOIL warrants its proper use.

http://www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx

Ride on.
Roadkill