09 RS - HID question answered

[IWN2RYD]

Now you know why BRP specifies that you install a separate auxiliary harness when you run both HID headlights and their fog lights...and they haven't even ventured into HID fogs.

:dontknow: On the BRP site the RS HID kit is now $899 and the RT is $1000. Did they pull these? Or are you speaking on just the fog and they are not offering both? Thanks Scotty...:2thumbs:

 

[Motavar]

Relay HID harness on ebay ranges from $7-$16

It's basically a 40 amp Relay, a few wires, and an inline 25 - 30 amp fuse.

When the lights kick on, it signals the 40amp relay to pull power directly from the battery instead of the fog light wires for power to fire the HID.

You can build your own harness but the ones off ebay are nice because they are plug-n-play. They have all the waterproof connectors for attaching to the lights/ballasts.

-Mot

 

[SpyderWolf]

:dontknow: On the BRP site the RS HID kit is now $899 and the RT is $1000. Did they pull these? Or are you speaking on just the fog and they are not offering both? Thanks Scotty...:2thumbs:

BRP only offers HID headlights, so far there has not been a fog light offering from them.

Relay HID harness on ebay ranges from $7-$16

It's basically a 40 amp Relay, a few wires, and an inline 25 - 30 amp fuse.

When the lights kick on, it signals the 40amp relay to pull power directly from the battery instead of the fog light wires for power to fire the HID.

You can build your own harness but the ones off ebay are nice because they are plug-n-play. They have all the waterproof connectors for attaching to the lights/ballasts.

-Mot

I hope this works for you. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Motavar]

Order placed.
We will find out in 3-4 days (shipping time)

When all is said and done we can write a sticky on the mod forum for HID stuff.

 

[leo76dragon]

for my lights to not cause any problems, I ended using different bulbs... and not letting the ballasts and wires not touch any part of the frame... too much electrical interference from the ballasts was my guess... but the Spyder works fine now... Good Luck!!!:thumbup:

 

[Justin]

The stock harness from BRP is supposed to be $99. I believe my Spyder already has this, as the dealer that did the foglight install said I had to have this add-on harness in order for them to work. Of course, I found out later that harness is only needed for the HID set up. So, I am hoping that since I already have it everything will be good to go.

Justin, have you had any problems running your fogs on HID?

I've had no issues at all. I can start the bike with all on.

 

[wyliec]

As long as they work. It seems to be hit and miss with HID's. You would notice some difference going to 5000k or 4300k. I personally don't care for the 8000k. They look good but the lower k's perform better.

Justin,

How do they perform better? Less problems? Last longer?

 

[Justin]

Justin,

How do they perform better? Less problems? Last longer?

brighter

 

[SpyderWolf]

for my lights to not cause any problems, I ended using different bulbs... and not letting the ballasts and wires not touch any part of the frame... too much electrical interference from the ballasts was my guess... but the Spyder works fine now... Good Luck!!!:thumbup:

Thanks for the update Leo.

I've had no issues at all. I can start the bike with all on.

Thanks for the additional info Justin. I appreciate it as well.

 

[Motavar]

Okay wolf check this one out..

So I ordered a few replacement relays the other day that just happened to show up today.

My main relay #1 on the 09 GS was a 30/20. I popped in a 50/30 and my startup issues and VSS issues completely went away. I went out in the cold frozen grass in my front yard and spun the byke around like you wouldn't believe popping the vss light up the wazzoo and instead of the spyder shutting down it was fine.

So my question is.. on the 09's up: should the main relay be a 30/20, 35/20, or a 50/30?

I went over the relay thread on here but **** just confused me more.

Update: 9:00 pm est:
I put the 35/20a in and was able to get a VSS fault when starting. The 50/30 still no issues.
I'm guessing it's safe to keep the 50 in there as the whole circuit should be protected by the fuse in the back box. I will still assume this issue will go away when I put the HID relay harness into play.

...but..this makes me wonder if the stock relay is too low for continuous VSS detection. For example: I know once before when I went through 6 inches of snow in my driveway to get into my garage the VSS kicked in like crazy and shut the whole spyder down. Now I'm wondering if the relay just can't handle the switching required during long periods of VSS. Could the higher relay be more reliable under continuous load over the smaller 30amp one and be a better choice?

 

[NancysToy]

Okay wolf check this one out..

So I ordered a few replacement relays the other day that just happened to show up today.

My main relay #1 on the 09 GS was a 30/20. I popped in a 50/30 and my startup issues and VSS issues completely went away. I went out in the cold frozen grass in my front yard and spun the byke around like you wouldn't believe popping the vss light up the wazzoo and instead of the spyder shutting down it was fine.

So my question is.. on the 09's up: should the main relay be a 30/20, 35/20, or a 50/30?

I went over the relay thread on here but **** just confused me more.

Update: 9:00 pm est:
I put the 35/20a in and was able to get a VSS fault when starting. The 50/30 still no issues.
I'm guessing it's safe to keep the 50 in there as the whole circuit should be protected by the fuse in the back box. I will still assume this issue will go away when I put the HID relay harness into play.

...but..this makes me wonder if the stock relay is too low for continuous VSS detection. For example: I know once before when I went through 6 inches of snow in my driveway to get into my garage the VSS kicked in like crazy and shut the whole spyder down. Now I'm wondering if the relay just can't handle the switching required during long periods of VSS. Could the higher relay be more reliable under continuous load over the smaller 30amp one and be a better choice?

A relay is merely a switch. Using one rated for higher amperage is not a problem, as long as it fits, has the same internal configuration, and the coil voltage matches. I suspect maybe your original relay has become weak, or the contacts were pitted. Relays are only good for a certain number of cycles. The higher the current draw, the fewer cycles they last. Added accessories like HID lighting can increase the current draw, especially the inrush (switched) current, and damage the relay contacts...at least in time. A voltage change could cause you to notice a problem where there was none before. The DPS is the largest draw on the system of a running Spyder, so it could have lowered the voltage to the point where the relay cried "Uncle". If you have a 50/30 that fits, you should use it, IMO.

 

[SpyderWolf]

Thanks for the information on the difference between the relays Scotty. That is good to know, and I honestly didn't have a clue about it. :thumbup:

 

[WackyDan]

Aside from the risk of overheating and damaging your harness with anything 55 watt and up... What about the ballasts? Are they designed with a wattage range, or do they only specifically work with say 35 watt bulbs? Ie; even if you wanted higher wattage, can the ballasts be the limiting factor anyway?

 

[SpyderWolf]

Aside from the risk of overheating and damaging your harness with anything 55 watt and up... What about the ballasts? Are they designed with a wattage range, or do they only specifically work with say 35 watt bulbs? Ie; even if you wanted higher wattage, can the ballasts be the limiting factor anyway?

That is a good question as well. The site mine are coming from did not say anything about the wattage of the ballast, but offered the different wattage bulbs with the same ballast. There is another member on here that is running the 100 watt bulbs on his RT: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24831 . The type of ballast did not appear to change based on my bulb selection, but there was an increase in price of $10. :dontknow:

 

[Motavar]

Sorry for the delay. I promised a follow-up to using a harness/relay to wire the fog HIDs directly to the battery but haven't had a chance. I spent the last few days changing the timing belt on my Acura and doing a valve adjustment (all new stuff to me so I took my time).

I have the HID harness and covers off the spyder so I just have to get over there and do it. I should have a follow-up this weekend.

On a different note: I ordered some LEDs for the blinkers and tails. I'll see if I can do a write-up on those when they come in.

 

[SpyderDen]

That is a good question as well. The site mine are coming from did not say anything about the wattage of the ballast, but offered the different wattage bulbs with the same ballast. There is another member on here that is running the 100 watt bulbs on his RT: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24831 . The type of ballast did not appear to change based on my bulb selection, but there was an increase in price of $10. :dontknow:

I have used DDM Tuning for HID's on my Harley and they used the same bulb for 35W and 55W. The only difference is the ballasts with them.
:dontknow:

 

[SpyderWolf]

I have used DDM Tuning for HID's on my Harley and they used the same bulb for 35W and 55W. The only difference is the ballasts with them.
:dontknow:

My stuff arrived today. The ballasts are marked as to which ones are the 55 watt and which are the 35 watt, and the bulb packaging is marked with the wattage as well. I figure the 55 watt ballast is what the actual $10 upgrade charge that I paid was for. :thumbup:

It will be a while before I get a chance to install them, as it is currently freezing here right now. I need to decide if I am going to ryde to the dealer for my new DPS this Friday with a temp of about 18 or so, or if I am going to cancel the appointment. :dontknow:

 

[Machinegunner]

Where can we buy the 50/30 relays?

 

[Motavar]

Where can we buy the 50/30 relays?

50amp Relay
PRICE: $3.48

Mouser Part #: 893-898H1CHCR1U312VD
Manufacturer Part #: 898H-1CH-C-R1-U03-12VDC
Manufacturer: Song Chuan
Description: General Purpose / Industrial Relays SPDT 50A 12VDC
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...tualkey62000000virtualkey893-898H1CHCR1U312VD

---

35amp Relay
PRICE: $3.16

Mouser Part #: 893-3011CCR1U0112VDC
Manufacturer Part #: 301-1C-C-R1-U01-12VDC
Manufacturer: Song Chuan
Description: General Purpose / Industrial Relays SPDT 35A 12VDC
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...tualkey62000000virtualkey893-3011CCR1U0112VDC

 

[Motavar]

1/23/11
Update:

I put a HID relay harness into place for the fog lights and it did not eliminate the HID problem causing the VSS fault and shutting down the spyder. Well, I take it back.. it helped a bit but if I do not press the fog light button fast enough (i press slowly) the VSS kicks and spyder faults.

So right now I'm guessing the circuit where the fog light switch is wired into is just a very sensitive circuit (maybe something that is listening to the canbus watching the VSS stuff every 20ms ?) I guess the turning on of the fog light triggers the relay to cause enough interference (like leo said) to produce the fake VSS fault.

So the goal now is to relocate the fog light switch to another circuit or just wire it into the battery directly.

I'm still amazed the relay didn't solve the problem. I figured once the fogs called for power directly from the battery the problem would have went away.

This seems dangerous. Can a fog light fail and cause a short long enough for the VSS to fault and shut down the engine?