PedalBox and Pedal Commander - what do they do and how do they work?

[BajaRon]

Fuel consumption is already fairly lame on my Rally so I'll pass on fitting a gadget that makes it drink even quicker. Then again...maybe in a few years though, once I've learnt to ride it round corners properly.....

Personally, I don't think the Ryker needs a throttle modifier. It comes stock with a pretty responsive throttle. Probably more due to the CVT than the ECU. Apples and Oranges between the 2 machines. We've put some Pedal Boxes on Rykers. But we always try to enlighten customers with our opinion that they are not necessary before doing so.

 

[rjinaz86323]

where I really appreciate the improved throttle response is for passing cars out on the highway. Arizona has a lot of up and down riding and finding a spot to pass a slow moving vehicle is not always easy. Having a quicker throttle response certainly helps.

 

[DickB]

Assuming the above is correct (no reason to doubt it), I was wrong. Thanks for setting me straight. :cheers:
:cheers:

You're not wrong. These boxes work exactly as you have described. The box manufacturers have charts on their websites that show exactly that.

Interesting video. Let's look very closely at what is happening here.

While he talks about pressing the accelerator pedal rapidly, he never does that. The accelerator pedal is actually being pressed fairly slowly. The butterfly valve then naturally moves fairly slowly in response. If he would have pressed the pedal rapidly to the floor, the butterfly would have opened very rapidly. (He is using a demo setup and never tests how rapidly the butterfly can open in stock. I made measurements in the real world on my Ryker and showed that the butterfly can and does in fact open in the blink of an eye.)

Next, he turns on the box. But, he presses the pedal at about the same rate. Because the box amplifies the pedal signal, in the time it took for the pedal to move just 20% the box delivers an 80% signal to the ECU - of course the butterfly is going to open more, just as it would if he pressed 80% unmodified. In effect, he has pressed the pedal much more rapidly. That is what these boxes do - increase pedal sensitivity. A more sensitive pedal requires much less travel to send the same signal to the ECU. This gives the perception that the butterfly is opening faster.

This demo never illustrates what actually would happen if you press rapidly to the floor.

 

[Tbusa]

Maybe we should talk about something less divisive - like religion and politics.

Or what oil to use... lol.

 

[RogerC60]

I'm a late-comer here, but I've been reading this thread with interest. I've been trying to decide whether to try one of these devices on my 2024 Spyder RTL, purchased last September.

“After installing a Pedal Box or Commander unit, you can manage the rate at which the throttle bodies open up to, and even beyond, a 1 to 1 ratio.”

No, you cannot. You are managing the amount that TAS increases with rotation of the twist grip. The ECM manages the throttle body butterfly valve based, among many other things, the TAS. You are changing the relationship between twist grip angle and TAS, that is all. The ECM is going to react the same with the same TAS input. How can it not?

Are you certain of this? I write embedded firmware for a living. If I were making an ECU I might be inclined to include not only TAS voltage (V), but also the rate of change with respect to time of the TAS voltage (dV/dt). The PedalBox and Pedal Commander make it possible to achieve greater dV/dt than is possible without them, it could be that the ECU actually is opening the butterfly faster with them. Peoples' reported experience with these devices supports this idea.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced.

 

[AnatoleSea2Sky23]

In my opinion, the Ryker is already responsive enough in stock form and does not need or benefit much form this 'upgrade'. Not true of the Spyder where either of these units make a noticable and worthy difference.

Big difference on my 23 Sea2Sky with and w/o PedalBox

 

[DickB]

I'm a late-comer here, but I've been reading this thread with interest. I've been trying to decide whether to try one of these devices on my 2024 Spyder RTL, purchased last September.


Are you certain of this? I write embedded firmware for a living. If I were making an ECU I might be inclined to include not only TAS voltage (V), but also the rate of change with respect to time of the TAS voltage (dV/dt). The PedalBox and Pedal Commander make it possible to achieve greater dV/dt than is possible without them, it could be that the ECU actually is opening the butterfly faster with them. Peoples' reported experience with these devices supports this idea.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced.

Yes, I am certain. I was also in the embedded firmware business for 35 years.

Let me try to convince you.

Using Pedal Box's chart, I copied their most aggressive curve (Sport mode) onto the test results from my Ryker. The blue line is stock Ryker TAS and the green line is Pedal Box Sport mode TAS. While Sport mode dV/dt is initially greater than stock (dV/dt 1), it is slower than stock later (dV/dt 2). To achieve maximum (100%) TAS (and therefore maximum power), the twist grip must be twisted 100% in either case, with or without the boxes. The dV/dt time to maximum TAS voltage is identical.

Does the early greater TAS dV/dt have an impact? Looking at dV/dt 3, that is the rate of change in TAS of my stock Ryker twist grip snapping back from 100% twist. Note that the curve is almost a step function, and the absolute value of the stock TAS dV/dt is as great or greater than initial Sport mode TAS. Yet dV/dt 4 (the yellow line is TPS), the maximum slew rate of the butterfly, is much less. This is because, as I explained, the throttle body motor speed has a limit. So, while you are correct in that you can achieve a greater TAS dV/dt with a box for about 20 ms, it has no effect on the maximum speed of the butterfly.

The boxes do not make it possible to achieve greater dV/dt of the TPS (butterfly) than is possible without them, and of course that is what matters.

 

[Dasmoetorhead]

Here's the deal with no charts or computers to tell me what I'm not feeling.
When I turn my PB Off while riding through town it feels like I threw an anchor out. It feels very sluggish compared to when the PB is on.

 

[AndysF3S]

Well it seems to me that you can accomplish the PB feeling by using more wrist, which is free, just a matter of getting used to if that is how you like to ride. JMO
I prefer the stage 2 MFI tune in the standard mode; it provides a good throttle response as well as a nice increase in performance when I want to use my wrist a bit more.

 

[Dasmoetorhead]

Well it seems to me that you can accomplish the PB feeling by using more wrist, which is free, just a matter of getting used to if that is how you like to ride. JMO
I prefer the stage 2 MFI tune in the standard mode; it provides a good throttle response as well as a nice increase in performance when I want to use my wrist a bit more.

Hahahaha classic. Ever heard of a 1/4 twist throttle assembly? That's what I've had on all my motorcycles and that came stock. The PB is my 1/4 throttle. That's all. I understand it. I have no desire to twist the throttle all the way around just to get moving fast. The PB makes this process very easy and smooth.