So, how fast can a spyder go and safely make a sharp right turn at an intersection?

[Bunson]

The slow in, fast out is the way most most performance driving was done when we were all young. But people learned that braking late into the corner, known as trail braking is the current rage. It certainly requires more talent especially on a Spyder where the brake pedal may not be positioned to optimize trail braking. When going around a left turn you would be looking to both finesse the brake and brace with the right foot at the same time. Not easy.
The other issue is we are not riding on a race track. On the street we don't always know just how tight the turn is. Also there may be an obstacle in the road or someone coming in the opposite direction who is not staying on their side of the road.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Pretty much what's been said. Pull with inside arm while planting the outside foot and to start, slow in and fast out of the turn. Accelerating through and out of a corner is more confidence inspiring compared to braking late into a corner.

That's absolutely the way to go!! hyea:

Altho with the 'much better than anyone else out there' braking our Spyders have, you can still be heading deeper in towards the corner at a faster speed, braking later; doing all the planting outside foot and the pulling yourself in & down on the inside bar; and then due to enhanced stability & steerability of the Spyders over most other things, get on the gas much sooner than anyone else and get out of the corner quicker and earlier too!! :thumbup: Btw, 'trail-braking' too often &/or for too long on a Spyder is NOT recommended - the Nanny REALLY doesn't like it at all, and if you do use that technique too much/too long, you not only risk over-heating your otherwise pretty damned good brakes and causing brake fade, but you will most likely eventually end up in Limp Home Mode! :banghead: But you really don't need to use that technique with the Brembo Brakes and the greater stability our Spyders have! hyea:

Also, you really don't need to be treating everything as a race-track to do/practice any of this slow in/fast out - use your body more - brake late/accelerate early stuff; in fact, it's probably better to practice it all at slow and steady speeds A LOT before you even start to think about upping your speed... IF you ever really want to! However, that said, it never hurts to do all your practicing and then once you're comfortable with the whole process, every now and then, when it's safe, just give it a little more speed and practice it a bit faster again to build your knowledge & confidence! Even if you never plan on riding that fast in the normal course of events, and you never even exceed the speed limit &/or a 'comfortable speed for you &/or your pillion', just KNOWING that you CAN and that are not only capable but also practiced at it is a great confidence builder for all the rest of your riding!
And then if you ever really need to call on all this in a critical situation and maybe hafta go even faster than you ever have before, you KNOW you've got this and that you CAN! :lecturef_smilie:

Similarly, I strongly recommend that you, at least every now and then, when it's safe and you have a clear road to do it on,
practice your 'Emergency Stopping'!! nojoke

There's no denying that, since the release of the 2013 Spyders with Brembo brakes all round, and when ridden the right way, these Spyder things WILL brake a helluva lot better and stop a helluva lot faster than just about everything else on the road, if not ACTUALLY better than faster than absolutelyfreakinlutely everything[ else on the road!! But if you look back thru the older threads & posts here, you'll find more than one person complaining about their brakes, and how they failed to work as expected and they just sailed on past wherever they were trying to stop/whatever they were trying to avoid! Exactly the same thing happened when ABS Brakes first came out - people didn't realise that they not only COULD stomp on the brakes and stay stomped on them to get the ABS working properly, but they SHOULD!! And instaed, they were either doing a half-hearted 'stomp', or lifting off immediately the odd/different noises & things started happening! :gaah: - The 2010-2019 RT's with footplates even have a 'drop-away footplate' feature to enable this 'massive stomp' and if you ride one of them but have never braked hard enough to cause that footplate to drop away, then you REALLY SHOULD try it AND PRACTICE IT!! But be warned, brace yourself well before stomping hard on the brake -
then brace yourself even MORE!!
These things can & will stop VERY HARD AND FAST when you do!! :lecturef_smilie:

You really should practice this stuff all the time, even if you never actually plan on riding that hard &/or fast; or braking all out like that ever!! You just never know when you might need to be able to do it well, safely, and with skill!

Just Sayin'

 

[rjinaz86323]

When going around a left turn you would be looking to both finesse the brake and brace with the right foot at the same time. Not easy.

This is why a handbrake would still be a nice thing to have on a Spyder.

 

[BajaRon]

Thank you for the answer, but the question is, “what is the right technique “? I would rather start out using the proper technique than having to break a bad one.

Riding is like most other skill based actions. If you have to think about it, you're not there yet. But you have to start somewhere. And you're wise to want to avoid having to break bad habits. Like other skill based abilities, it is important to ride correctly all the time or you won't have it when you need it. Also, many times, the right way is counter intuitive.

Personally, I've never understood all the attention given to the 'Push/Pull' thing. But people rave about it so I don't comment much. If it works for you, then that's great. I've paid attention a few times to see what it is that I am doing and it's both. About 50/50 I'd guess. The thing is, if you aren't stable on the machine, there is no way you're going to feel the confidence you need to get you around the corner correctly. In other words, if you're not planted, you will have difficulty getting the correct response from the bike. This may be where you find yourself at this point.

Use the energy in the handlebars to help stabilize your upper body in a turn. If this means more pushing or more pulling, then that's what you need to do. But rather than concentrating on how much of either you are applying, I suggest focusing on upper body stabilization rather than arm pressure. You can stabilize the lower part of your body by squeezing you legs together. You need to be stable going into the turn. Lean forward to a comfortable angle with your upper body angled towards the inside. The harder the turn, the more you want to do this.

Go into the turn near the outside of the roadway and gently, gradually make your way to the very inside of the turn as you go through it. Then drift back to the outside of the turn as you exit. It's called 'Apexing'. The length and severity of the turn dictates how quickly you want to get to the inside and drift to the outside at the end. Done correctly, you can really feel the energy of the turn working in your favor. Of course, this does not apply to an intersection.

Work on being smooth, comfortable, and natural, not mechanical.

When I was young, we would go to a cloverleaf in San Diego late at night (No Traffic!) and practice. You'd be surprised how exhausting running a few laps on a cloverleaf at speed can be. I'm not in any way suggesting you do this. It's just how I cut my teeth on the concept when I was a teenager.

 

[VryGryFox]

OK, Why is PULL better than PUSH during a turn?

In my lizard mind a handlebar is like a stick that pivots in the middle. If I pull on one end, it APPEARS to me like that would be the same as pushing on the other end.

What am I missing? Explain it to me like I am a five-year-old...

Thanks

 

[Bunson]

Well I guess I'll take a stab it.
First whether you push vs pull has more affect on the rider then the bike.
The ergonomics are completely different. Go sit on the bike and imagine going around a right hand corner. If I pull with my right arm it helps me lean into the corner while my left foot is pressing down. You also have more fine control because your arm is not extended.
In the same right hand corner, if I push with my left (and if you have short arms it's worse) and lean to the right with my body the arm becomes fully extended and the wheels may not be turned as much as possible. Your arm is out and up away from your body which reduces fine control.
Does that make sense?

 

[racoon]

I'm still in the "honeymoon" phase of learning to ride my Spyder, but I have found myself doing most of the pushing/pulling with my left hand when turning than with my right, probably because I'm concerned about messing with the throttle position during the turn.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Well I guess I'll take a stab it.
First whether you push vs pull as more affect on the rider then the bike.
The ergonomics are completely different. Go sit on the bike and imagine going around a right hand corner. If I pull with my right arm it helps me lean into the corner while my left foot is pressing down. You also have more fine control because your arm is not extended.
In the same right hand corner if I push with my left (and if you have short arms it's worse) and lean to the right with my body the arm becomes fully extended and the wheels may not be turned as much as possible. Your arm is out and up away from your body which reduces fine control.
Does that make sense?

There's that ^ :agree: And the fact that when you PUSH, in order to do so, your shoulders will tend to be above your hands on the handlebars, so to do so, you end up also applying some degree of downward and out force onto the 'outside of the corner handlebar'. Now that might feel great cos it tends to counter-act the centrifugal force that feels as tho it's trying to throw you off the outside of the Spyder, but that's only because the Spyder is tending to lean that way a little already, and by Pushing Down & Out, up high and out wide on the outside of the Spyder, it's a simple matter of leverage - you are making the roll worse and increasing the likelihood of lifting the inside wheel, maybe even triggering a full blown Nanny intervention!! And you don't really want that, do you?! :lecturef_smilie:

But if instead, you brace/push with your outside foot, which admittedly is still on the outside of the corner, but it's down much lower & maybe even a little bit closer to the roll centre of the Spyder during cornering, and then you PULL your weight Forward, In, & Down on the inside bar as mentioned in the quote above, there's far less 'down & out' leverage applied, and what leverage there is gets applied in a way that combines to lessen the body roll (instead of increasing it!) while still counteracting the centrifugal force and also helping you keep the bike stable without so much (if any) Nanny intervention! And that tends to keep that inside wheel on the ground somewhat longer too, which, despite being the unloaded wheel while cornering that way, still enhances your Spyder's traction and helps with the cornering. All good things that will help improve your ability to control the Spyder and feel comfortable on it at higher speeds/during faster cornering.




And to those concerned about moving the throttle while pulling on the handlebars, I hafta say that I find that interesting... Surely you can move your arms forward & back in a horizontal plane without rolling your wrist &/or hand?? :shocked:

Try it off the bike - sit at a table with your hands flat on the table in front of you as if they were on the ends of the handlebars with your arms extended a bit in front of you; then move your hands in & out, closer to you/further away from you, largely by bending your elbows. Do your hands need to come off the table, or can they stay flat on it?? If they stayed flat, then try the same thing standing up - just stand there with your arms extended out a little in front of you in much the same way as they were on the table/would be on the handlebars so that you are holding your hands a little above waist height; only this time, instead of your hands being flat on the table, bend your fingers in a little as tho they were lightly grasping the handlebars, and try moving them in & out, closer to you/further away from you largely by bending your elbows - do your wrists roll or your fingers need to seemingly 'twist the throttle' at all?? :dontknow: Even after extensive hand, wrist, arm, and shoulder surgery on both sides that severely limits the full range of motion in any/all of the joints from my fingertips to my neck, my hand doesn't change the throttle setting at all as I move the handlebars in & out, closer to me or further away from me - not in the least! Does yours truly move the throttle as you move the bars?? :shocked:

I'd have thought that if you're grabbing the throttle in such a way that pulling (or pushing) on the handlebars makes you change the throttle setting at all, then you really need to look at how you're holding the throttle - you SHOULD NOT be gripping it hard like you're trying to choke a chicken; instead, you should be using a lighter grasp with less of a 'choke the chicken' grip &/or action, so that you can move the bars without moving the throttle! This isn't a 'Hang on to avoid a grim death' scenario, it should be an enjoyable and fairly relaxed process as you gently guide and ride your Spyder, moving in harmony with the bike and the cornering forces to make a smooth and gentle whole, even if it can get fast enough to get the blood pumping and send a whole heap of adrenalin coursing through your veins! hyea:

Just Sayin'

 

[EdMat]

Not to mention if you are using a Choke a Chicken grip you probably think your Spyder is very darty and you are constantly correcting the steering.

 

[racoon]

Pater Aawen and EdMat - Bless your pea picking little hearts for pointing out what I already know, that I am still very new to my Spyder, and am still getting familiar with riding it.

Perhaps I need to spend less time reading forums like Spyderlovers.com to learn about my Spyder, and just spend more time riding.

:bdh:

 

[Peter Aawen]

....
Perhaps I need to spend less time reading forums like Spyderlovers.com to learn about my Spyder, and just spend more time riding.

:bdh:

Well racoon, you weren't the only one asking things like that, and I woulda responded sooner if I coulda, only I was out riding...





but Yup, you probably are right, you really should be spending more time out there -




Ryding More, Worrying Less! hyea:



Just Sayin'

 

[Peteoz]

Pater Aawen and EdMat - Bless your pea picking little hearts for pointing out what I already know, that I am still very new to my Spyder, and am still getting familiar with riding it.

Perhaps I need to spend less time reading forums like Spyderlovers.com to learn about my Spyder, and just spend more time riding.
:bdh:

Ahhhhhhh yes. But how do you know what you don’t know, Raccoon? You can spend a huge amount of time riding, but if you are riding with bad habits, things won’t improve. The trick is to glean what good advice you can get from the forums experienced riders, and THEN, get out and “ride more, worry less”:thumbup:

Pete

 

[PDXRTL]

One other thing I've learned to use on an RTL with big floorboards is a variation on Peter's recommendation to squeeze the tank with your legs. I move my inside foot towards the rear of the floorboard and lock my knee against the bike as I lift and shift my butt to get at least partially off the seat. So not just leaning but hanging off to the inside with my body firmly braced. Not only helps with the aggressive cornering, but gives me some good exercise.

 

[RogerC60]

I want to say thanks to everyone on this thread, especially @Peter Aawen. I've owned my Spyder RTL for just over a week. I've done some practicing based on what I've read here, and yesterday went on a ride with my BMW owners club on some curvy roads in eastern Ohio. I had no trouble keeping up with the group. Without the advice here I'm sure that would not have happened.

 

[Yamadoo]

I’m with Snoking, we both have the advantage of years of Snowmobiling - yes two skis out front and a 15-inch center track pushing in the back.
Yes, I’ve ridden cycles - much less than sleds - and I know the lean in counter steer rush - loved it.

You're not going to get that on a sled or a Spyder. Your mass wants to continue in motion, so you have to pull to stay on the bike/sled.

But this to me just like what I’m used to, you shift your weight inside and forward. I think the push/pull discussion comes down to the PULL brings your body mass inside and forward (and helps you to stay on inside of the seat keeping the weight inside the corner.
Riding my Spyder is like riding a sled that rails on turns. I’m going to get the peddle box pro trying to get closer to the acceleration I’m used to on the sleds. But I realize 160 hp on 600 lbs is always going to out pull 115hp on 1000+lbs.

 

[Bfromla]

OK, Why is PULL better than PUSH during a turn?

In my lizard mind a handlebar is like a stick that pivots in the middle. If I pull on one end, it APPEARS to me like that would be the same as pushing on the other end.

What am I missing? Explain it to me like I am a five-year-old...

Thanks

Not to blow mind or anything.. actually muscles can ONLY pull opcorn: & can be considered a balance of both arms -maintaining control without accidentally pulling throttle, as well as controlling the lateral G-force will be feeling. :lecturef_smilie: Please do not attempt just upper body movements. Yes paraplegics can ryde Spyders & have better understanding of personal limits & capabilities. Easiest (maybe best) just slow down:dontknow: enjoy the ryde- what’s the rush? (**you said “five-year-old**)

 

[lvmyspyder]

This thread gave you a lot of good advice. A couple of things that I might add if I may.

You can't beat muscle memory, so as has been mentioned, the more you ride the better.

One of the best upgrades you can make on your machine and get rid of that excessive lean on the RT is to put Baja Ron's sway bar on as soon as you can, that alone will make you take the for sale sign off the Spyder.

There are other things you can do to make that machine act and perform like it should. A friend of mine told me not to sell mine after week one and I am glad I listened and did not. These machines are amazing, they just need some help in the areas where BRP cut corners on engineering. A discussion for a later time.

Couple of other points, riding this is not like driving a car. You have to look ahead and anticipate things and not get yourself in trouble in the first place. Easier said than done, I know from experience as well. What I can say is that once you get that Spyder dialed in, it is safer than any two-wheeler, Harley, or Goldwing trike on the road. The other thing is to look into a three wheeled class and get enrolled. I rode a lot of miles and thought I don't need this. I was wrong. A lot of good knowledge and experience was gained, and in that class, we rode a lot of Spyders. You can drift them, and they are solid and capable. You can even come off the seat when cornering and drift it around without the tires leaving the pavement (takes a little practice); and if one of the fronts comes off the ground it will brake until all the wheels are back on the ground. These are amazing machines; they just need a little help to get them over the hump in terms of tuning them.

Lastly, learn to relax and learn how the bike moves under you. It's different than a two-wheeler for sure. You will want to fight it - Don't! Honestly, it's a bit like dancing with your woman. Once you get to know how she moves, it becomes almost effortless. Then the challenge is making sure you never get so relaxed that you don't stay alert!

 

[BertRemington]

Concur with lvmyspyder: if you can find a riding class, take it even if you have to travel and pay for a motel overnight. When I was open tracking, I always saved money for an instructor even if I had to give up a go-fast part. Knowledgeable instruction followed by supervised practice is worth every dollar you spend on it.

 

[Allen42]

This thread gave you a lot of good advice. ....

I really like this post. Thanks lvmyspyder!

 

[FrogmanDave]

Personally, I've never understood all the attention given to the 'Push/Pull' thing. But people rave about it so I don't comment much. If it works for you, then that's great. I've paid attention a few times to see what it is that I am doing and it's both. About 50/50 I'd guess.

What Ron said.