What Max Temp Reading have you seen for ambient air on your Spyder?

[Grandpot]

Answered my own question!

Well today was rather hot and my RTS was sitting in the parking lot at school baking in the sun. When I started it up the temperature gauge read 111-F. That's the first time it went over 102-F. Riding home it dropped to a balmy 105-F. If I had just waited a day, I would not have needed this thread. Thanks to all that joined in. :clap:

 

[canamjhb]

Glad to chime in. Official high here today 114F. Too hot to do anything except sit in the air cond. house and pester my friends on the forum..... Jim:chill:

 

[Revalden]

I've been thinking of replacing the oem temp gauge with a digital engine temp gauge. Could I just hook it up the wires that are hooked to the oem one or would I need to use the sender that came with the new one? If the oem gauge is hooked into the ECU for engine management, would tapping into it for the new gauge be allowed by the nanny?

 

[Bfromla]

I've been thinking of replacing the oem temp gauge with a digital engine temp gauge. Could I just hook it up the wires that are hooked to the oem one or would I need to use the sender that came with the new one? If the oem gauge is hooked into the ECU for engine management, would tapping into it for the new gauge be allowed by the nanny?

more than likely nanny will not like it, plus need to know the value & operation of the OEM unit +/- operation lead, others may be reversed. Mess around too much your fans may not kick in when they need to! :lecturef_smilie: :lecturef_smilie: :yikes: :banghead:

 

[Revalden]

more than likely nanny will not like it, plus need to know the value & operation of the OEM unit +/- operation lead, others may be reversed. Mess around too much your fans may not kick in when they need to! :lecturef_smilie: :lecturef_smilie: :yikes: :banghead:

Ok, how about taking the oem unit out and just let it dangle behind the dash and putting the new digital in the hole and adding the new sensor in-line with a TEE fitting?

 

[Jeriatric]

If you search digital temp gauge and go back to 2013 or so posts, you'll find the parts needed to complete the job.

 

[PDXRTL]

2024 RTL - ambient air temp showing on the dash appears to be several degrees high once the sun comes out (and yes, we do get sunshine in the PNW, but don't tell anybody). Any ideas where the sensor is and whether anything can be done so it correctly reports the air temp?

Obviously not a critical problem, but indicators that provide false information drive me crazy. :sour:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

2024 RTL - ambient air temp showing on the dash appears to be several degrees high once the sun comes out (and yes, we do get sunshine in the PNW, but don't tell anybody). Any ideas where the sensor is and whether anything can be done so it correctly reports the air temp?

Obviously not a critical problem, but indicators that provide false information drive me crazy. :sour:

I have a 14 RT and it has always read 2 to 3 high ......I think they all do, based on numerous comments in the past 10 years .....Mike :thumbup:

 

[Woodaddict]

It's not for the luxury of the rider. It's for the engine and computer for combustion! Just wait 'til you stop at a traffic light in HOT weather, it really goes up!!

 

[BajaRon]

It's not for the luxury of the rider. It's for the engine and computer for combustion! Just wait 'til you stop at a traffic light in HOT weather, it really goes up!!

Correct. The sensor is located where it can tell the computer what the air temperature being delivered to the throttle body is. 'Ambient' is probably not the best terminology for what this gauge reports. The ambient condition for the rider is not the same as for the throttle body.

 

[PMK]

I relocated the ambient temp sensor on our 2014. Plan was more accurate temp readings.

Downside was the location inside the airbox was similar to the oem location readings, but it demonstrated why the engine suffers badly on warm or hot days.

 

[VitoNam]

My 2018 F3L has always read up to 4 degrees above ambient. A quick mental calculation puts it into a proper ambient perspective.

 

[BajaRon]

I think we may be missing the point here. The temp sensor needs to have an accurate reading of the air going into the throttle body. Tamper with that reading and you're not going to get the correct fuel/air mixture into the engine. If you want a more accurate reading for the temperature you're riding in, then it needs to be coming from a separate system.

 

[PDXRTL]

Thank you Peter for combining the threads. Sorry I didn't find the other one first.

And thanks to those who know what that gauge is for. I really appreciate the education.

Though for goodness sake, why doesn't BRP explain that? Or even better, why don't they use a bar meter like they do for the coolant temp? A little consistency would be nice. I know, or at least I'm learning, asking for such things from BRP may be asking for too much.

Now, on to try to find a thermometer that will work. Which I know is hard to do on a motorcycle, finding a place where the sensor won't be affected by engine heat or sunshine.

 

[BajaRon]

Thank you Peter for combining the threads. Sorry I didn't find the other one first.

And thanks to those who know what that gauge is for. I really appreciate the education.

Though for goodness sake, why doesn't BRP explain that? Or even better, why don't they use a bar meter like they do for the coolant temp? A little consistency would be nice. I know, or at least I'm learning, asking for such things from BRP may be asking for too much.

Now, on to try to find a thermometer that will work. Which I know is hard to do on a motorcycle, finding a place where the sensor won't be affected by engine heat or sunshine.

You make a good point and one that I'm not going to attempt to explain as sometimes I don't understand what BRP is thinking. They could have chosen not to publish the output. Your car has the same system (as do all fuel injected engines). It is an integral and necessary component to make the engine run properly. But you're never going to see the output unless you're plugged into diagnostic software. The temperature reading you see in your car is from a separate system, positioned so as to be relevant to the passenger environment.

I suppose what BRP does may be valuable information, but only if it is properly explained (which it is not). So you, as was I, can easily be confused as to why this sensor seems to be so inaccurate. I personally would rather not have a gauge than to have an inaccurate one. This one drove me crazy until I discovered its purpose.

 

[PMK]

Correct. The sensor is located where it can tell the computer what the air temperature being delivered to the throttle body is. 'Ambient' is probably not the best terminology for what this gauge reports. The ambient condition for the rider is not the same as for the throttle body.

I think we may be missing the point here. The temp sensor needs to have an accurate reading of the air going into the throttle body. Tamper with that reading and you're not going to get the correct fuel/air mixture into the engine. If you want a more accurate reading for the temperature you're riding in, then it needs to be coming from a separate system.

Ron, my apologies if it upsets you that I blended two of your replies.

You sir are quite correct that referenced ambient temp, and also ambient pressure, are utilized by the engine management computer to obtain a correct air / fuel ratio for conditions at that moment.

Contending with the inaccuracies of ambient temp is something I am very familiar with, and made serious modifications resulting in far better performance.

Therefore, while the ambient temp is indicated, unfortunately, the difference between actual ambient temp, reported ambient temp, and induction air temp can have a large variance.

The current setup on our 2014 RTS has a relocated sensor. Doing so, decreased engine power output. After some time recording data regarding engine induction temps, it became obviously apparent how the engineers did try for a true cold air intake, but in operation failed miserably.

To eliminate some of the issues, the newest body style RT series no longer runs a true cold air intake. The design team retained previous model year airbox, but eliminated the duct that picks up air, forward of the radiator. Bad part of these newer versions is that the air, heated by the radiator, flows up into the airbox.

So our setup, air sensor has been moved, and after a lot of effort and expense, I was able to get induction air temps much lower, and the engine generates more available horsepower. To the trained ear, the change in exhaust note from the true cold air induction, and along with that a far more correct AF ratio.

Mike, the Blueknight chopped up his airbox and added a plumbing elbow that hangs outside the bodywork. This almost mimics the latest gen RT series intake. Better, but heat soaked parts eliminate any and all gains.

 

[BertRemington]

For 1st generation 1330cc Spyders, there are two air temperature and pressure sensors - manifold and ambient - input to the ECM. The ambient air temperature is sent to the instrument cluster via CANBUS. If both the fuel and coolant gauges are present, the instrument cluster emulates an analog NCT to drive the coolant gauge. If your digital coolant gauge uses an analog NCT sensor you might be able to directly replace the Spyder gauge with the digital gauge. Some fussing with load resistors maybe needed because the instrument cluster detects the presence of the coolant gauge and uses its LCD if it isn't present. Measure the resistances of the Spyder gauge and the digital gauge signal circuits and try to get them to match.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thank you Peter for combining the threads. Sorry I didn't find the other one first.

And thanks to those who know what that gauge is for. I really appreciate the education.

Though for goodness sake, why doesn't BRP explain that? Or even better, why don't they use a bar meter like they do for the coolant temp? A little consistency would be nice. I know, or at least I'm learning, asking for such things from BRP may be asking for too much.

Now, on to try to find a thermometer that will work. Which I know is hard to do on a motorcycle, finding a place where the sensor won't be affected by engine heat or sunshine.

The WHY they don't may be as simple as this ..... When you are in your car, it's enclosed (or can be) so you can heat the air or cool it .... you don't have that option on any Motorcycle. .... I don't understand why anyone needs to know the EXACT ambient air temp. ..... If you really want to know, just buy one of those little stick-on thermometers and stop complaining. .... Also, the folks who complain about lack of these types of features are often the same people that complain about the HIGH prices you pay for a Spyder ..... JMHO .... rant over >>>> Mike :thumbup:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ron, my apologies if it upsets you that I blended two of your replies.

You sir are quite correct that referenced ambient temp, and also ambient pressure, are utilized by the engine management computer to obtain a correct air / fuel ratio for conditions at that moment.

Contending with the inaccuracies of ambient temp is something I am very familiar with, and made serious modifications resulting in far better performance.

Therefore, while the ambient temp is indicated, unfortunately, the difference between actual ambient temp, reported ambient temp, and induction air temp can have a large variance.

The current setup on our 2014 RTS has a relocated sensor. Doing so, decreased engine power output. After some time recording data regarding engine induction temps, it became obviously apparent how the engineers did try for a true cold air intake, but in operation failed miserably.

To eliminate some of the issues, the newest body style RT series no longer runs a true cold air intake. The design team retained previous model year airbox, but eliminated the duct that picks up air, forward of the radiator. Bad part of these newer versions is that the air, heated by the radiator, flows up into the airbox.

So our setup, air sensor has been moved, and after a lot of effort and expense, I was able to get induction air temps much lower, and the engine generates more available horsepower. To the trained ear, the change in exhaust note from the true cold air induction, and along with that a far more correct AF ratio.

Mike, the Blueknight chopped up his airbox and added a plumbing elbow that hangs outside the bodywork. This almost mimics the latest gen RT series intake. Better, but heat soaked parts eliminate any and all gains.

I'm Mike (the BLUEKNIGHT) who "chopped up his airbox" - but that wouldn't be my terminology for what I did. I removed the plastic intake plumbing to the Airbox (including the rubber Elbow) and replaced it with a short straight 3" tube which creates an un-cluttered straight shot into the box - the air is Ambient temp. If I was drag-racing, I could put a piece of dry ice in the tube and see if that effected the performance. ....Mike :thumbup: I have an album with pics too.

 

[PMK]

I'm Mike (the BLUEKNIGHT) who "chopped up his airbox" - but that wouldn't be my terminology for what I did. I removed the plastic intake plumbing to the Airbox (including the rubber Elbow) and replaced it with a short straight 3" tube which creates an un-cluttered straight shot into the box - the air is Ambient temp. If I was drag-racing, I could put a piece of dry ice in the tube and see if that effected the performance. ....Mike :thumbup: I have an album with pics too.

Absolutely fully grasp your intentions, and while my words chosen may be slightly askew, I should rephrase to mention you cut a large hole in the bodywork, allowing the three-inch item to protrude.

In simple terms, anyone with a 2014 to 2020 series RT series can accomplish a completely reversible mod by eliminating the forward duct, and by doing so, will have the same as the 2021 and after Spyder RT series airbox setup.

The unfortunate overlooked design flaw is how intensely the induction air path soaks up heat, and even far, far worse is the recovery time required to drop temps even a few degrees. With my modified changes, I can easily witness exactly how badly heat soaked items are, and I can also monitor and see the change as the items cool.

Not uncommon to witness engine induction temps 25°F even up to 40°F greater than ambient temps from heat soak. Recovery time of a stock airbox riding without stopping can be 20 minutes, 30 minutes, or even longer. If stop lights are involved, the temps might never recover. Cool dense air is what works best, unfortunately, a stock airbox can only deliver that at initial start up.

No doubt there are naysayers, simply consider though, how little air is consumed by the 1330 at partial throttle. The heat absorption, and heat soak amount exceeds the amount of cooling provided by the engine consuming air.

BRP / Can Am made the change in 2014 to move radiators forward and use a purpose designed powerplant. Unfortunately, those forward radiators now blast hot air all over the underbody components, including the engine induction air components.