DPS roulette

[Way2Fast]

In addition the RT has a different steering system with different geometry then the 2008/2009 GS/RS Spyders.

Hope that helps.

Where did you get this info from? Different in what way?

I was one of the first, if not the first to report a steering problem on this forum. While on a straight and level road doing about 50mph, the handle bars decided on their own to pull to the left and make the vehicle cross into the opposing traffic lane. I had to fight the bars to get back into my own lane. I think some force outside the steering system made the Spyder respond this way. Regardless of the different opinions on what the stability control/ brakes are and are not capable of doing, I think a dragging brake would be more inclined to do this rather than anything the steering system does. If this happened to me while on a curvy road where the steering was actually in play, I might then blame it on the DPS....but not while going in a straight line with no steering imput what so ever.:spyder:SuicidePyder is a befitting name for this vehicle !!!

 

[groundeffect]

Where did you get this info from? Different in what way?

I read it somewhere on the forum.... I'll try and find it for you.

 

[groundeffect]

This thread:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16388&highlight=geometry&page=2

This Post in that thread:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=169844&postcount=32


hope that helps.
Cheers

 

[Lamonster]

Where did you get this info from? Different in what way?

I was one of the first, if not the first to report a steering problem on this forum. While on a straight and level road doing about 50mph, the handle bars decided on their own to pull to the left and make the vehicle cross into the opposing traffic lane. I had to fight the bars to get back into my own lane. I think some force outside the steering system made the Spyder respond this way. Regardless of the different opinions on what the stability control/ brakes are and are not capable of doing, I think a dragging brake would be more inclined to do this rather than anything the steering system does. If this happened to me while on a curvy road where the steering was actually in play, I might then blame it on the DPS....but not while going in a straight line with no steering imput what so ever.:spyder:SuicidePyder is a befitting name for this vehicle !!!

I think you need to start a SpyderHaters.com board. You've had sour grapes since day one about BRP and the Spyder. If I hated anything that much it would not be parked in my garage. We all get it, you hate your Spyder and you hate BRP as a company. I'm not the only member here that's getting sick of your rants. nojoke

 

[dave01]

I, for one, dont hate my Spyder. In fact, I miss riding it. I have been freezing my butt off on the Busa. Cant wait to get it fixed.

 

[NancysToy]

Where did you get this info from? Different in what way?

Look at the parts fiche. It is different in many ways. BTW, what the heck does this question have to do with the rest of your rant? You've said your peace. Give us a break now...please!

 

[aubierules]

Here we go again...........opcorn:

The guy is unhappy with BRP's response (or lack of), to potentially fatal steering malfunctions. He voices his displeasure, and that's sour grapes??:dontknow: I don't get it....Is the Spyder's image or resale value more important than someones potential safety?

At least he's willing to talk about what's going on. Whether folks like it or not, it is real and it is happening and BRP doesn't seem to be getting it very right, very often, do they?

He has as much right to be unhappy, as others do to be happy. If ya' don't like it, just don't read it, and pretend the steering nightmare will never happen to you.

Or read the bad stuff along with the good stuff, and perhaps form a realistic open-minded opinion......

Here's mine- The Spyder is a FANTASTIC concept, put together with barely marginal parts(Rotax excluded), and brought to market by a company that's 'not quite ready for primetime'...... Sour grapes?, maybe, but it is reality....:doorag:

:agree:

 

[spyryder]

I think you need to start a SpyderHaters.com board. You've had sour grapes since day one about BRP and the Spyder. If I hated anything that much it would not be parked in my garage. We all get it, you hate your Spyder and you hate BRP as a company. I'm not the only member here that's getting sick of your rants. nojoke

:agree:

 

[Lamonster]

Here we go again...........opcorn:

Exactly:gaah:

 

[widowmaker2011]

Actually, I believe it could, with the right programming and the input (and rate of change) from the steering angle sensor, and possibly the steering torque sensor. Using the speed, differences in speed between the two front wheels, and the steering angle, a program could also determine if you were off line, with the right data tables. I do not see any way the VSS could work to maintain your steering line (like an SUV) without independent braking. This is a known (and advertised) feature of the Spyder VSS. Anecdotal evidence from the Dragon indicates that the Spyder will do the braking for you in the tight turns, without pressure on the pedal. Just another man's opinion.

Scotty , I agree it could , but the bosch system in the Spyder is an off the shelf car system and it does not (in my opinion and true belief) have the ability to have that many variables put into it. BRP wasn't working with a clean slate on this , its a pluga and play system from a 4 wheel vehicle. I'm not going to argue the point on indpendant braking because I am "pretty sure" but not 100% positive... so I'll go with your theory on the comment regarding the dragon... but the computer in the VSS is not sophisticated enough to do what your describing , (which by the way is an excellent idea) :thumbup:

 

[widowmaker2011]

Nobody has reported a steering problem with the RT. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

True , and some very unscientific research done by me shows that those with the new GPS (new design) have virtually zero problems after it is replaced also.

Do not underestimate the GPS and its correlation with alot of the issues people had. I consider my spyder knowledge very good and my dealers BRP tech is one of the best and we knocked it down to two things- 1) Actual DPS box failures and 2) GPS failures and its impact on signal to the DPS unit. It is my true beleif that in the end these two things will ultimately be the end fix and nothing more. Some of us had GPS issues which affected steering some had DPS failures internally and a few had both. Just my opinion. I have personally seen over a dozen at the shop I work closely with and they all have been one or the other and all have been fully repairable with PROPER diagnosis. Thats maybe the issue.... :shocked:
And I know this question is coming- why so many issue AFTER the recall. The calibration change affected how the GPS signal was interprited by the DPS unit. My theory is there were a bunch of "bad" GPS sensors outg there that had not shown their bad side until the update- and Viola , after the update the improper signal was now affecting the DPS where as it was not before. We had a couple spyders that the GPS was perfectly in range prior to the update and immediately after it was like it was off 8-9 degrees- showing errors at times and the rider needing to apply downward pressure on the shifter to get the error to go away. New GOS . Perfect. If you go to your dealer and they ask what the GOS is or tell you it has nothing to do with the DPS , run dont walk to another dealer. I truly think BRP will have this fixed in short order. Do I think it took too long? Yes. But it is what it is. The GPS sensor has already been addressed by a new part and my "assumption" (yeah I know what that usually ends up with) is the DPS is undergoing design scrutiny now to determine the cause for internal failures. We have seen numerous new DPS units bad right out of the box , so they are probably getting to the bottom of the issue rather than tell everyone to go get a new DPS. ok done. 12 weeks till spring cmon baby.

 

[Recluze]

These steering issues are becoming epidemic. nojoke

Something is going to have to give before someone really gets hurt or worse.

Michael:doorag:

I think that it may be too late. One of the first accidents I ever heard of involving a Spyder was a school teacher who veered off of the road for no apparent reason and killed herself. I never heard another word about it but it does sound awfully suspicious considering what we know now.

 

[txknight67]

True , and some very unscientific research done by me shows that those with the new GPS (new design) have virtually zero problems after it is replaced also.

Do not underestimate the GPS and its correlation with alot of the issues people had. I consider my spyder knowledge very good and my dealers BRP tech is one of the best and we knocked it down to two things- 1) Actual DPS box failures and 2) GPS failures and its impact on signal to the DPS unit. It is my true beleif that in the end these two things will ultimately be the end fix and nothing more. Some of us had GPS issues which affected steering some had DPS failures internally and a few had both. Just my opinion. I have personally seen over a dozen at the shop I work closely with and they all have been one or the other and all have been fully repairable with PROPER diagnosis. Thats maybe the issue.... :shocked:
And I know this question is coming- why so many issue AFTER the recall. The calibration change affected how the GPS signal was interprited by the DPS unit. My theory is there were a bunch of "bad" GPS sensors outg there that had not shown their bad side until the update- and Viola , after the update the improper signal was now affecting the DPS where as it was not before. We had a couple spyders that the GPS was perfectly in range prior to the update and immediately after it was like it was off 8-9 degrees- showing errors at times and the rider needing to apply downward pressure on the shifter to get the error to go away. New GOS . Perfect. If you go to your dealer and they ask what the GOS is or tell you it has nothing to do with the DPS , run dont walk to another dealer. I truly think BRP will have this fixed in short order. Do I think it took too long? Yes. But it is what it is. The GPS sensor has already been addressed by a new part and my "assumption" (yeah I know what that usually ends up with) is the DPS is undergoing design scrutiny now to determine the cause for internal failures. We have seen numerous new DPS units bad right out of the box , so they are probably getting to the bottom of the issue rather than tell everyone to go get a new DPS. ok done. 12 weeks till spring cmon baby.

Thank you! I was getting kind of bummed by all the negatives. Glad to hear someone who thinks BRP is on the right track to fixing this.

I just had my GPS changed because the tech noticed some GPS fail codes while doing the 2nd update for me. Haven't got the bike back as it is awaiting parts for some other "campaign". I will get more info on that when I pick the bike up. Also will add to your highly unscientific research data base then as well.

 

[wyliec]

These steering issues are becoming epidemic. nojoke

Something is going to have to give before someone really gets hurt or worse.

Michael:doorag:

Someone did get hurt.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8814

 

[spyryder]

True , and some very unscientific research done by me shows that those with the new GPS (new design) have virtually zero problems after it is replaced also.

Do not underestimate the GPS and its correlation with alot of the issues people had. I consider my spyder knowledge very good and my dealers BRP tech is one of the best and we knocked it down to two things- 1) Actual DPS box failures and 2) GPS failures and its impact on signal to the DPS unit. It is my true beleif that in the end these two things will ultimately be the end fix and nothing more. Some of us had GPS issues which affected steering some had DPS failures internally and a few had both. Just my opinion. I have personally seen over a dozen at the shop I work closely with and they all have been one or the other and all have been fully repairable with PROPER diagnosis. Thats maybe the issue.... :shocked:
And I know this question is coming- why so many issue AFTER the recall. The calibration change affected how the GPS signal was interprited by the DPS unit. My theory is there were a bunch of "bad" GPS sensors outg there that had not shown their bad side until the update- and Viola , after the update the improper signal was now affecting the DPS where as it was not before. We had a couple spyders that the GPS was perfectly in range prior to the update and immediately after it was like it was off 8-9 degrees- showing errors at times and the rider needing to apply downward pressure on the shifter to get the error to go away. New GOS . Perfect. If you go to your dealer and they ask what the GOS is or tell you it has nothing to do with the DPS , run dont walk to another dealer. I truly think BRP will have this fixed in short order. Do I think it took too long? Yes. But it is what it is. The GPS sensor has already been addressed by a new part and my "assumption" (yeah I know what that usually ends up with) is the DPS is undergoing design scrutiny now to determine the cause for internal failures. We have seen numerous new DPS units bad right out of the box , so they are probably getting to the bottom of the issue rather than tell everyone to go get a new DPS. ok done. 12 weeks till spring cmon baby.

Good info Widow Just thinking about how the GPS is tied in....The DPS is a self contained unit, meaning it has it's own processor. I imagine it needs info from the GPS to determine speed or gear position in order to give the right amount of steering assist? Or is it also using actual speed info from the wheel sensors?

 

[Smylinacha]

Achtung Baby! VERY COOL MACHINE!

Well, I hate to say it, but the more I read about the steering problems with the spyder the more I worry about if I made the right decision when I ordered my RT!
At lest my Kettenkrad steers where I want it to go and traffic gets out my way!hyea:

 

[tatt2r]

Steering ???? I don't need no stinking steering !!!! Drive it like I stole it could get a blown tire at 80 keep my mind open for anything

 

[widowmaker2011]

Good info Widow Just thinking about how the GPS is tied in....The DPS is a self contained unit, meaning it has it's own processor. I imagine it needs info from the GPS to determine speed or gear position in order to give the right amount of steering assist? Or is it also using actual speed info from the wheel sensors?

Yes and Yes. What we are unable to get BRP to confirm is "what" changed in the reprogram. There is a , lets say ....theory (this is just a theory, one which I believe to be true but you need to do your own research because I could be wrong) Just ask my wife :shemademe_smilie:
......that the DPS no longer looks at gear position after the reprogram, just speed. When they eliminated that portion of the programing , they assumed they would have a "null" input (null means no input) , so the DPS would just ignore the GPS signal. The opposite happened and the GPS was throwing a syne wave that was being misinterpreted by the dps. New GPS , problem solved. Again this is merely a theory among many but this dog thinks its close to tracking that 1 last duck.... this dog hunts till he gets it. So there we are back at get the new GPS (or ride an 09 or 2010 ha ha) and wait for BRP to get the DPS internal failure fixed.

 

[Trickie Dick]

8 threads

Here we go again...........opcorn:
I count 8 threads open discussing this same issue with the same people posting the same thing. :yikes:

 

[docdoru]

Yes and Yes. What we are unable to get BRP to confirm is "what" changed in the reprogram. There is a , lets say ....theory (this is just a theory, one which I believe to be true but you need to do your own research because I could be wrong) Just ask my wife :shemademe_smilie:
......that the DPS no longer looks at gear position after the reprogram, just speed. When they eliminated that portion of the programing , they assumed they would have a "null" input (null means no input) , so the DPS would just ignore the GPS signal. The opposite happened and the GPS was throwing a syne wave that was being misinterpreted by the dps. New GPS , problem solved. Again this is merely a theory among many but this dog thinks its close to tracking that 1 last duck.... this dog hunts till he gets it. So there we are back at get the new GPS (or ride an 09 or 2010 ha ha) and wait for BRP to get the DPS internal failure fixed.

1. I did change the GPS 20K miles ago (check engine light + E error + frozen steering). Problem solved until 3 days ago.
2. The second update was issued for low RPM hesitations, doesn’t matter the gear.
3. One cannot erase/reinstall the second update from/to the ECM. :chat: