2015 Can Am Spyder F3 - Needs a new engine!

[BertRemington]

On a warm sunny Spring day, a young bull and an old bull were standing on the top of a hill surveying their territory. In the valley below was their herd. The young bull said to the old bull, "Let's run down the hill and frolic with a lady." The old bull said to the young bull, "Let's not young master. Let's walk down the hill and frolic with all the ladies."

From the Service Manual:

ENGINE SUDDENLY TURNS OFF (POOR IDLING)
1. Piston rings worn out.
- Replace piston rings.
2. Piston/cylinder clearance out of specification.
- Check piston/cylinder clearance. Replace if out of specification.
3. Melted or broken piston.
- Check if oil spray nozzle is not clogged. Refer to LUBRICATION SYSTEM subsection. Replace piston and cylinder block if necessary.

Read what PMK says about the Nikasil coating on the cylinder walls https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...miles&p=1581957&highlight=Nikasil#post1581957

If the crankshaft turns I recommend that you still don't run the engine until without a better diagnosis of the rough running and stopping symptoms.

 

[BertRemington]

If you decide the engine must be replaced, before you run down that hill share the planned purchase with us first. For instance, exclusivepartstore has a lovely engine at an attractive price. Except when you look closer you see the tops of the lower two rear mounting lugs are broken off. And if you look even closer you see the front adjuster is broken in half not disassembled. That motor received a tremendous blow and you don't want to touch it, even for loose parts.

No need to buy and install a used engine twice.

 

[Scottncol]

If you decide the engine must be replaced, before you run down that hill share the planned purchase with us first. For instance, exclusivepartstore has a lovely engine at an attractive price. Except when you look closer you see the tops of the lower two rear mounting lugs are broken off. And if you look even closer you see the front adjuster is broken in half not disassembled. That motor received a tremendous blow and you don't want to touch it, even for loose parts.

No need to buy and install a used engine twice.

Thank you. I can’t find any used or rebuilt engines…. Not sure where to look.

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

Were you able to verify that the motor is locked up?

I didn't see any post yet from you about that. You may be putting the cart before the horse here.

I would really take a close look around that harness and the connectors for damaged or loose leads it just may be coincidence but there are other items that are being thrown in the codes that have nothing to do with the engine.

I would start looking around the wiring that would have been disturbed during that spark plug change. Something either got yanked on, cut, or exposed that is shorting out especially with the circuit that is mentioned in that P011C code. If you notice it is complaining about a too HIGH of voltage on that circuit which is the ECM or the brains controlling the whole shibang here.

P011C
-ECM
-Ambient Air Temperature Sensor circuit high Sensor disconnected Defective sensor, damaged wires, wire shorted to battery +, ECM voltage supply too High.
-Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure voltage between harness connector pins 1 and 4 . (Expected value: 4.8 to 5.1 volts) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-H4 to AAPTS-1 (Expected value: < 2 ohms) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-J4 to AAPTS-2 (Expected value: < 2 ohms)

I am fairly new to these so don't take my word for it I am just using my logic from 30+ years of troubleshooting various pieces of equipment and you may have in fact a seized engine on top of everything else but I would take that P011C code as a red flag since it is an ECM related code before you write off that engine.

 

[Dutchy]

Hello Scott, not that I am a Spyder Guru or anything like that, but my wife had a similar experience with a V8 Deisel Landcruiser here in Ozzie with a brand-new battery! even if you tried to jump start it start, you could turn the ignition on, lights on and everything worked fine but it would not start or even turn over,:gaah: so when I got there you automatically think the worst but all it turned out to be that one of the terminals was not tightened enough to make a good connection.:thumbup::yes:

As you also mentioned earlier the previous owner used to cruise on the Spyder but was it ridden or just putter around about as this in itself can lead to other problems, as well as there is a lot of things you can see on YouTube where things have been left in the garage and never run for months and when they get it started it runs terribly, also have a look at some of the Spyder Ryders on You Tube they have 80,000 odd miles with no major problems, so I really doubt it is the motor.:doorag:

Again, this is my opinion mate as my gut is telling me it's not the motor, but then as the used to say in the Army your gut can be wrong.

I hope you get it sorted and running.

 

[Scottncol]

Were you able to verify that the motor is locked up?

I didn't see any post yet from you about that. You may be putting the cart before the horse here.

I would really take a close look around that harness and the connectors for damaged or loose leads it just may be coincidence but there are other items that are being thrown in the codes that have nothing to do with the engine.

I would start looking around the wiring that would have been disturbed during that spark plug change. Something either got yanked on, cut, or exposed that is shorting out especially with the circuit that is mentioned in that P011C code. If you notice it is complaining about a too HIGH of voltage on that circuit which is the ECM or the brains controlling the whole shibang here.

P011C
-ECM
-Ambient Air Temperature Sensor circuit high Sensor disconnected Defective sensor, damaged wires, wire shorted to battery +, ECM voltage supply too High.
-Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure voltage between harness connector pins 1 and 4 . (Expected value: 4.8 to 5.1 volts) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-H4 to AAPTS-1 (Expected value: < 2 ohms) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-J4 to AAPTS-2 (Expected value: < 2 ohms)

I am fairly new to these so don't take my word for it I am just using my logic from 30+ years of troubleshooting various pieces of equipment and you may have in fact a seized engine on top of everything else but I would take that P011C code as a red flag since it is an ECM related code before you write off that engine.

Yes, great idea. I will spending the day doing just that.

 

[Navydad]

Were you able to verify that the motor is locked up?

I didn't see any post yet from you about that. You may be putting the cart before the horse here.

I would really take a close look around that harness and the connectors for damaged or loose leads it just may be coincidence but there are other items that are being thrown in the codes that have nothing to do with the engine.

I would start looking around the wiring that would have been disturbed during that spark plug change. Something either got yanked on, cut, or exposed that is shorting out especially with the circuit that is mentioned in that P011C code. If you notice it is complaining about a too HIGH of voltage on that circuit which is the ECM or the brains controlling the whole shibang here.

P011C
-ECM
-Ambient Air Temperature Sensor circuit high Sensor disconnected Defective sensor, damaged wires, wire shorted to battery +, ECM voltage supply too High.
-Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure voltage between harness connector pins 1 and 4 . (Expected value: 4.8 to 5.1 volts) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-H4 to AAPTS-1 (Expected value: < 2 ohms) Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-J4 to AAPTS-2 (Expected value: < 2 ohms)

I am fairly new to these so don't take my word for it I am just using my logic from 30+ years of troubleshooting various pieces of equipment and you may have in fact a seized engine on top of everything else but I would take that P011C code as a red flag since it is an ECM related code before you write off that engine.

I agree with this write up. Just because a connector LOOKS to be connected check it anyway. Some of these connectors have a seal in them and are a tight fit. May be one isn't as tight as it should be?

 

[Scottncol]

I agree with this write up. Just because a connector LOOKS to be connected check it anyway. Some of these connectors have a seal in them and are a tight fit. May be one isn't as tight as it should be?

Great point. I will recheck every one, just in case.

 

[Scottncol]

I now have a borescope to do some digging.

I will grab some pictures and share.

 

[Scottncol]

Update:

The boresope was a hair too large to get into the spark plug hole.

I was able to turn the crank to a certain point. At that point, it froze. I could turn it back the other way and when it reached that point, it froze again.

Cylinders all move freely, up and down. (long screw driver and turned the crank)

SOMETHING is stopping it from turning the hole way. Besides that, everything is VERY clean.

In the video, I state that the one in the top right corner does not move... it does move. They all move.

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xqx6cw46s4slb6ggonbuu/IMG_1018.MOV?rlkey=mth5lxwonx8by4zq7zw35cvtl&dl=0[/video]

 

[Scottncol]

UPDATE.

I was able to get the crank turned, TO A CERTAIN POINT, and then it froze.

However, all of the cylinders move freely.

Here is a video. In the video I say that the "top lobe does not turn", when it does in fact turn.

My borescope is just a hair to big... darn!

Perhaps something is preventing the crank from turning.

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xqx6cw46s4slb6ggonbuu/IMG_1018.MOV?rlkey=mth5lxwonx8by4zq7zw35cvtl&dl=0[/video]

 

[safecracker]

I have been following these threads with interest. Sorry I do not have any ideas. Just trying to learn. Hope you find the problem. Bruce

 

[Scottncol]

I have been following these threads with interest. Sorry I do not have any ideas. Just trying to learn. Hope you find the problem. Bruce

me too!

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IMHO that engine is NOT seized .... from you " SOMETHING is stopping it from turning the HOLE ( whole ) way " ....I don't see how this is possible .... good luck ....Mike :thumbup:

 

[AndysF3S]

me too!

When you removed the spark plugs were they all the same color (light brown) or was one white or black? Is there any mechanical damage to the spark plug end; if yes which cylinder did it come from? The fact that you can turn the crank until it hits something makes me suspect that you have an obstruction in that cylinder which may be a piston land or worst case a dropped valve. You can insert a slim object through the spark plug hole into each cylinder and see which is closest to the top that may also give you a clue to which has the damage.

Your next step would be to remove the head and see what the mechanical damage is? Good luck, I hope its minor?

 

[Scottncol]

IMHO that engine is NOT seized .... from you " SOMETHING is stopping it from turning the HOLE ( whole ) way " ....I don't see how this is possible .... good luck ....Mike :thumbup:

Absolutely agree... now, to find what is preventing it from turning... Timing chain jump, perhaps?

 

[spyderdave]

You've established that the engine in not seized, but since it will not rotate fully, something is obviously stopping it. If you want to tackle this on your own, you would benefit by investing in an online manual; there is an extensive secton on the engine as well as accessories diven by the crank.

 

[Peter Aawen]

UPDATE.

I was able to get the crank turned, TO A CERTAIN POINT, and then it froze.

However, all of the cylinders move freely.

Here is a video. In the video I say that the "top lobe does not turn", when it does in fact turn.

My borescope is just a hair to big... darn!

Perhaps something is preventing the crank from turning.

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xqx6cw46s4slb6ggonbuu/IMG_1018.MOV?rlkey=mth5lxwonx8by4zq7zw35cvtl&dl=0[/video]

Well it's clearly not seized, so I'd say that's a pretty good assumption. :thumbup:

Before jumping into removing the head, it might be worthwhile checking the gearbox end next...

Altho if you haven't done it already, and you think it's been run for more than just 'moments' after the last oil change, possibly a better place to start would be to drain the oil & check it, the drain plugs, & the filters for any debris?! :dontknow:

Mind you, there's still all those codes you had showing unaccounted for?? I'm guessing that either they were initially poor battery related & haven't cleared since/in your ownership cos you haven't been able to properly run the engine; or that there's more going on in there than what you think and that they will raise their ugly heads again later, regardless of whatever it is stopping the engine from turning over! :banghead:

Just Sayin' hyea:

 

[BertRemington]

The 1330cc is three throws at 120 degrees with a 3.15 inch stroke. Unfortunately the crankshaft did not make a full revolution but it still is necessary to measure the minimum and maximum travel distances for each cylinder to further our analysis.

 

[BajaRon]

First, if the lobe in the upper right hand corner is not moving. Then you have a broken camshaft. I'm taking your word for it because in the video, I can't tell for sure.

The other thing I am seeing, from my less than ideal visual. You say 'Stuck'. But what does that mean? Does that mean you can't turn it anymore? Or that it just gets hard to turn?

When you get cam lobes opening valves, it will get a lot harder to turn your wrench. It will be a soft stop due to friction. If you are using a 3/8" or 1/2" standard ratchet, it may not give you enough leverage to move the cam lobes past the valve spring tension. All you need is more leverage to get it turned past the 'Stuck' point. Won't fix your non-turning cam lobe. But if the cam is broken, it won't hurt anything to get a full revolution.

But as others have said, your engine is not seized and your fix should be much less than a new motor.