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2018 F3L stalling while driving - any ideas on why?

G

GWHIZZ

New member
Input, please? I also have query in with BRP, but they have been hacked recently and neither shop, nor I, am getting response from them.

Bike is in shop now - 2nd time. Occurrences of problem (for me) – 4X total, 3 rides within 10 days, happened on each ride, and with using each one of my 2 Spyder keys. Shop cannot seem to duplicate.

Problem definition: Bike will not manually downshift, NOR will it auto downshift. Begins shaking slightly as if stalling out while still in 4th or 5th gear when bike should just be slowing down / downshifting. Orange exclamation point ! (Vehicle Malfunction) appears on lower left corner of Display and the last gear the bike was in prior to stalling still appears on Display. The gray banner, Transmission Fault also flashed quickly on Display for 2 of the 4 total fault occurrences.

This happened when I was traveling in higher gears, approx. RPM at 3800-4000+, either in 4th, 5th or 6th gear. Traffic slows and/or coming to a stop sign, try to manual downshift (if feasible) and/or allow bike to auto downshift to full stop. Bike basically stalls out while driving!

**What I do to clear error – so far:
Pull off road, turn bike off, wait a few minutes, remove / reinsert key. Sometimes had to do the re-start procedure 2-3 times before display error clears. ONLY if Display error is cleared do I have power on the engine. Sometimes can start bike with error still in display but have NO POWER from throttle to engine.

FYI: data
I personally cleaned out my grill (interior / exterior) and radiator of debri.
Had normal, scheduled maintenance done “on time”: oil change / brake fluid flush. Shop pulled inactive codes as shown, but could not duplicate problem in a couple of alleged attempts to ride bike. Shift issue happened for me both BEFORE and AFTER oil change / brake fluid flush.

8 codes pulled (none are active, per shop)
B2B02 – cannot find code for Spyder
U3001 – cannot find code for Spyder
ECM: P0513 Incorrect Immobilizer Key / Invalid Access Key Detected
P0730 Incorrect Gear Ratio
ECM: P2530 Ignition switch state not plausible
TCM: U0259 Lost communication with SWM
TCM: U0100 Lost communication with ECM
TCM: U0122 Lost communication with VCM
 
#1 possible problem - left hand handgrip module. #2 possible problem - battery terminals tight? Battery need load tested? Battery can cause alot of errors. #3 possible problem - is the oil level correct? Follow procedure in manual. If dealerships don't use certified tech's, they can overfill
 
The left hand multi function switch is a known problem on the 2018 F3 and RT’s. I’m getting mine replaced next Saturday. My problem with it involved not being able to manually down shift, not being able to shift into Reverse or manually shift into Neutral.
 
Shop told me that all codes are inactive, allegedly meaning that they occurred, but are not ongoing...yet I stall in traffic "ongoing"....

But did it "auto" downshift when slowing / coming to a stop? without stalling and having the orange ! exclamation point?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I had a similar problem with my 2015 F3-S, it did not downshift when coming to a stop, but stayed in fourth gear and ran at a higher rpm like the throttle was stuck until I turned the key off.
 
Please keep us informed about what caused your problem. I am especially interested since I had a similar problem even though mine only occurred once. Thanks.
 
On mine was the gearbox position sensor behind the front pully. It's a cheaply made potentiometer that sends 0V to 5V to the TCM to verify what gear it's in. $120 off EBay.
 
Here's my 2 cents (perhaps worth less).
I think everyone so far has been focusing on the symptom and not the cause. Yes, the left side switch assembly is a pattern failure but it may not be the cause of the issue.
I believe your primary issue is the P2530 stored in the ECM. I ran into this issue with my own 2018 F3S. Took it to the dealer to be told the code had "occurred" and there was nothing wrong. I had a long and heated discussion with the service manager and educated him on the fact that the code had "occurred" BECAUSE something was wrong. Eventually he agreed to contact BRP (why is this always a battle) and BRP informed him of a TSB (he should have seen anyway) to replace the right side switch assembly. Yes, the one with the red rocker switch on it, for a highly intermittent internal resistance problem causing the ECM to see an implausible input and set the P2530. They replace under warranty and all was well.
To your situation....
I've been a senior master GM diagnostic tech for 32 years now (actually teaching dealer techs at the present) and, part of that job involves detective work, backtracking thru the evidence to the original failure. The key is the "U" codes set. They are loss of communication codes set to indicate modules can't communicate as expected.
Here's what I think happened.
The P2530 set because of the kill switch fault (documented in the TSB)
Several modules went off-line because the power mode switched (incorrectly because of the faulty switch).
The bike then stalled because of that incorrect power mode OR because a necessary module went off line (note-the TCM set a loss of comm against the ECM).
The P0730 set when the ECM came back because the bike wasn't running and the ECM saw the incorrect gear position for zero RPM and whatever speed you were going.
I'm betting all of this would be solved with the replacement of the red button kill switch. Either way, its faulty per the TSB and needs to be replaced anyway.
 
frj322 said:
Here's my 2 cents (perhaps worth less).
I think everyone so far has been focusing on the symptom and not the cause. Yes, the left side switch assembly is a pattern failure but it may not be the cause of the issue.
I believe your primary issue is the P2530 stored in the ECM. I ran into this issue with my own 2018 F3S. Took it to the dealer to be told the code had "occurred" and there was nothing wrong. I had a long and heated discussion with the service manager and educated him on the fact that the code had "occurred" BECAUSE something was wrong. Eventually he agreed to contact BRP (why is this always a battle) and BRP informed him of a TSB (he should have seen anyway) to replace the right side switch assembly. Yes, the one with the red rocker switch on it, for a highly intermittent internal resistance problem causing the ECM to see an implausible input and set the P2530. They replace under warranty and all was well.
To your situation....
I've been a senior master GM diagnostic tech for 32 years now (actually teaching dealer techs at the present) and, part of that job involves detective work, backtracking thru the evidence to the original failure. The key is the "U" codes set. They are loss of communication codes set to indicate modules can't communicate as expected.
Here's what I think happened.
The P2530 set because of the kill switch fault (documented in the TSB)
Several modules went off-line because the power mode switched (incorrectly because of the faulty switch).
The bike then stalled because of that incorrect power mode OR because a necessary module went off line (note-the TCM set a loss of comm against the ECM).
The P0730 set when the ECM came back because the bike wasn't running and the ECM saw the incorrect gear position for zero RPM and whatever speed you were going.
I'm betting all of this would be solved with the replacement of the red button kill switch. Either way, its faulty per the TSB and needs to be replaced anyway.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I was unaware of a TSB involving the kill switch side. I read both of the TSBs to include the left hand multifunction switch. I did bring up to the service dept. that 3 of my errors were due to TCM losing communications with other modules. I guess they are waiting for CanAm to get back to business (after the recent hack) and this will happen for them on 9/11/22 - per what I hear from the service dept.
 
Update (so far): was told by dealer that BRP told them to reprogram my VCM and HCM modules. Ok. So now I am to assume all is well. Will p/u bike next week most likely and test ride it.
 
I be looking around for bad connections or chafing on the harness someplace. Reprogramming the modules sounds like they're reaching for the stars.
 
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trikermutha said:
I be looking around for bad connections or chafing on the harness someplace. Reprogramming the modules sounds like they're reaching for the stars.
Click to expand...

Maybe so. I have an email into BRP about what could cause this to need to be done.... anyways, I am happy that my bike is working so far! It seems to have been fixed for now. But I wonder if VCM/HCM (electronic modules) are covered under warranty in this case... I ended up paying $190 for "diagnostics" that I should not have to pay if it's under warranty.
 
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SeniorRider said:
Please keep us informed about what caused your problem. I am especially interested since I had a similar problem even though mine only occurred once. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The fix that seems to work still is this: BRP told dealer to "reprogram"? / update? the VCM and to clean the HCM. I do not know why HCM needed cleaned as I maintain the bike per scheduled maintenance and I use proper oil. Other than that, no one can tell me WHY exactly or WHAT exactly was the "identified problem".
 
Preface: My bike is maintained on schedule, and dealer did my last oil change.

Stalled while riding...It happened again on 5/5/23 when I picked up my bike after having the sprocket replaced (recall). Had to pull off road then return to dealer with SAME PROBLEM that they allege they fixed prior. I personally believe I need a NEW module of some kind - TCM, VCM or HCM. THIS time, I refused to play with them - see if problem happens again - and told them they MUST contact BRP and use my BEST warranty (which they did not try to use prior). This is the 5th time I could have been killed riding this hunk of plastic...Because I no longer TRUST my bike, I cannot go on a trip, cannot ride for Road Warriors, cannot ride with my groups - cannot ride my bike without taking a chance on bike stalling, and my death on a busy highway after being rear ended at 65 mph. I turned Can AM into the NHTSB after the 1st 4 stalls....I guess I need to report them again.
 
GWHIZZ -- I sympathize with your loss of riding joy due to well-deserved loss of confidence in your Spyder. It's why I dumped my Moto Guzzis.

Tell us a bit more about the circumstances. It seems the stalling only occurs when you are riding at highway speeds with the occasional stop-and-go -- is this correct? You described some shaking on slowing. Is power suddenly off or is there a slacking off where power drops off quickly? I'm not clear how you get the Spyder running again -- could you provide more details on this process although it doesn't seem be be consistent from stall to stall. And could you also tell us if the Orange warnings always appear and any other console readings such as coolant temperature. I realize this is a bit of a challenge as you are trying so save life and limb in traffic but any additional details will be helpful. Especially riding history before this issue manifested.

I know you have dealer service but would you please check the coolant level with a bright flashlight.

Three specific questions:

1. What is the odometer reading?
2. What is the make and age of your battery (SC can get very hot and affect battery lifetime)
3. What accessories have been installed and what modifications have been made?
 
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