Here's some New Kenda Tires!?!

[TicketBait]

Went to dealership today and took a couple pics of the new Kenda tires a 2020 RT

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Since the Kendas are built ONLY for our bikes, don't you think the limited market is also a factor?

The limited production runs for these tires make them ineligible for true economies of scale, as with any specialized tire.

Also, the number of companies interested in competing for BRP's business must be extremely small. You'd almost have to go with a smaller, boutique manufacturer I would think.

I'll state this this for about the 20 th time …. I have not been able ( nor has anyone else ) to find the Law / DOT rule that says our Spyders ( read that Trike ) MUST have tires that have a Motorcycle designation stamped on the sidewall.... Actually putting a Motorcycle tire with a motorcycle bead on a " J " type wheel/rim is ILLEGAL …. and the Spyders have " J " rims, it even says on the Kenda tires that they must be mounted on …… " J " type rims NOT Mtc rims ….. So if you know of a law / rule that contradicts that please let us all know !!! …. Kenda has made EVERY tire EVER put on every Spyder sold by BRP, ( for well over 125,000 bikes ) and the dealers only pay about 20% ( or less ) for the Kenda tire they sell you …. Mike hyea: ………...PS if you happen top have a Harley Davidson dealership near you , go in and see what tires they have on their Trikes

 

[UtahPete]

I'll state this this for about the 20 th time …. I have not been able ( nor has anyone else ) to find the Law / DOT rule that says our Spyders ( read that Trike ) MUST have tires that have a Motorcycle designation stamped on the sidewall.... Actually putting a Motorcycle tire with a motorcycle bead on a " J " type wheel/rim is ILLEGAL …. and the Spyders have " J " rims, it even says on the Kenda tires that they must be mounted on …… " J " type rims NOT Mtc rims ….. So if you know of a law / rule that contradicts that please let us all know !!! …. Kenda has made EVERY tire EVER put on every Spyder sold by BRP, ( for well over 125,000 bikes ) and the dealers only pay about 20% ( or less ) for the Kenda tire they sell you …. Mike hyea: ………...PS if you happen top have a Harley Davidson dealership near you , go in and see what tires they have on their Trikes

Mike, I wasn't talking about laws, unless you consider basic economics a law. I know business economics and that's where I was coming from.

There's another business dictum, one having to do with diminishing returns......

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'll state this this for about the 20 th time …. I have not been able ( nor has anyone else ) to find the Law / DOT rule that says our Spyders ( read that Trike ) MUST have tires that have a Motorcycle designation stamped on the sidewall.... Actually putting a Motorcycle tire with a motorcycle bead on a " J " type wheel/rim is ILLEGAL ….

I thought I had read in the Federal Regulations that a tire had to be labeled as to its intended use, but I can't find that specific requirement now. It might be in some official guidance or interpretation document related to the Federal regs. I'm pretty sure most tires ARE marked for their intended use, P for passenger car, LT for light truck, M/C for motorcycle, ST for special trailer, plus others. I just found a pic of a Kenda Ryker tire and it has M/C after the tire size designation. I'm sure Kenda adds the special motorcycle label to clearly show it is not a normal m/c tire even though it is in the general class of m/c tires. I'd have to look but I think the testing requirements for m/c tires are less strict than for car tires. What I have found in the Federal Regs is a requirement that the tire manufacturer must make known through publicly available documents (that does not mean free) of all the rims a particular tire has their approval to be mounted on. That document can simply make reference to specific rim styles in a reference document from any one of several tire and rim manufacturers associations. I'm sure we could find where Kenda says mounting their Spyder tires on a Spyder J rim is an approved installation, but approval may not be shown for usual car J rims. Maybe they do say that which is why the special motorcycle label. In other words Kenda's official position may essentially be that the Spyder tire can be used on any proper size J rim as long as that rim is on a motorcycle. But, and this is a big but, if Cooper or General or Vredestein, or whoever, does not say their tires are OK to mount on a Spyder rim, which probably is identified by more characteristics than just the J rim design, or that it is OK to mount their tires on any J rim including ones used on motorcycles, then a tire dealer is within his rights to refuse to mount such tires on a Spyder rim. What we need to get is the tire makers to say it's OK by them to mount a specific car tire on a Spyder rim. Or better yet, get the tire and rim manufacturers to grant blanket approvals for certain groups of tire designs to be mounted on certain groups of rim designs.

It's really a case of splitting hairs where in the absence of a clear OK designation, the assumption is it is not OK. In our case we have plenty of experience to show that using car tires on our Spyders is NOT "not OK", but unfortunately the folks who are in the position to declare car tire use is OK don't seem to want to do that. As to legal/illegal it's a bit nebulous in my mind. Mounting a tire on a rim that is not listed as being an approved rim for that tire is contrary to the Federal Regs, or at least its intent. But I would say it is illegal only if the law states that mounting a tire in contradiction to the regulation is prohibited. If that is the case then mounting a car tire on a normal m/c rim would be illegal, but then so would be mounting a car tire on a Spyder rim if the Spyder rim is not listed by the tire maker as an OK rim to use. With the vast variety of tires and rims out in the world, and millions of combinations that are possible, it's probably nigh impossible to come up with clear regulations and exceptions to cover every situation.

My position is use a car tire if you want, but don't get all bent out of shape at a Can Am dealer who won't mount it for you. There are plenty of other tire technicians out there who will do it.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I thought I had read in the Federal Regulations that a tire had to be labeled as to its intended use, but I can't find that specific requirement now. It might be in some official guidance or interpretation document related to the Federal regs. I'm pretty sure most tires ARE marked for their intended use, P for passenger car, LT for light truck, M/C for motorcycle, ST for special trailer, plus others. I just found a pic of a Kenda Ryker tire and it has M/C after the tire size designation. I'm sure Kenda adds the special motorcycle label to clearly show it is not a normal m/c tire even though it is in the general class of m/c tires. I'd have to look but I think the testing requirements for m/c tires are less strict than for car tires. What I have found in the Federal Regs is a requirement that the tire manufacturer must make known through publicly available documents (that does not mean free) of all the rims a particular tire has their approval to be mounted on. That document can simply make reference to specific rim styles in a reference document from any one of several tire and rim manufacturers associations. I'm sure we could find where Kenda says mounting their Spyder tires on a Spyder J rim is an approved installation, but approval may not be shown for usual car J rims. Maybe they do say that which is why the special motorcycle label. In other words Kenda's official position may essentially be that the Spyder tire can be used on any proper size J rim as long as that rim is on a motorcycle. But, and this is a big but, if Cooper or General or Vredestein, or whoever, does not say their tires are OK to mount on a Spyder rim, which probably is identified by more characteristics than just the J rim design, or that it is OK to mount their tires on any J rim including ones used on motorcycles, then a tire dealer is within his rights to refuse to mount such tires on a Spyder rim. What we need to get is the tire makers to say it's OK by them to mount a specific car tire on a Spyder rim. Or better yet, get the tire and rim manufacturers to grant blanket approvals for certain groups of tire designs to be mounted on certain groups of rim designs.

It's really a case of splitting hairs where in the absence of a clear OK designation, the assumption is it is not OK. In our case we have plenty of experience to show that using car tires on our Spyders is NOT "not OK", but unfortunately the folks who are in the position to declare car tire use is OK don't seem to want to do that. As to legal/illegal it's a bit nebulous in my mind. Mounting a tire on a rim that is not listed as being an approved rim for that tire is contrary to the Federal Regs, or at least its intent. But I would say it is illegal only if the law states that mounting a tire in contradiction to the regulation is prohibited. If that is the case then mounting a car tire on a normal m/c rim would be illegal, but then so would be mounting a car tire on a Spyder rim if the Spyder rim is not listed by the tire maker as an OK rim to use. With the vast variety of tires and rims out in the world, and millions of combinations that are possible, it's probably nigh impossible to come up with clear regulations and exceptions to cover every situation.

My position is use a car tire if you want, but don't get all bent out of shape at a Can Am dealer who won't mount it for you. There are plenty of other tire technicians out there who will do it.

" bent out of shape " …. interesting. I feel bad that you went to all the trouble of typing what you did, because I didn't read much that was actually definitive …… So I simply ask - how can HD LEGALLY sell their TRIKES which are sold as Motorcycles with factory mounted CAR TIRES on them ????? ....Mike hyea:[/SIZE]

 

[trikermutha]

opcorn: Page 6 :yes:

 

[Mikey]

opcorn: Page 6 :yes:

I think there's a lot of cabin fever going around!!!:yikes::chill::roflblack:

 

[cueman]

:agree: but mine is do to knee surgery recovery. cueman

 

[Mikey]

:agree: but mine is do to knee surgery recovery. cueman

Oh no, just went threw that last summer, about to get the other one done in April!!!! Good Luck, heal quick summers coming!!

 

[cueman]

Thank you my friend, this is my third knee surgery and I’ve still only got two knees! :yikes: cueman

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

So I simply ask - how can HD LEGALLY sell their TRIKES which are sold as Motorcycles with factory mounted CAR TIRES on them ????? ....Mike hyea:[/SIZE]

I see nothing in the Federal regs that states a manufacturer cannot use a car wheel on a motorcycle if the motorcycle maker deems it to be suitable. So if it does, then any tire that a tire maker says can be mounted on that specific rim can be used on the motorcycle. I have no easy way to verify it, but I'm sure even though HD wheels are designed specifically for HD trikes, i.e., the bolt hole pattern and offset are not the same as most car wheels, the tire mounting cross section profile is identical to a standard Tire & Rim Association profile for car tires. So when Dunlop, Goodyear, or whoever says a P205/R15 is designed and approved to fit on XX rim profile, and the HD wheel matches the XX rim profile, there is nothing to keep HD from mounting that car tire on their rim.

In short, since HD wheel has XX profile, and ZZ tire is approved by its maker to fit on XX profile rim, HD can mount ZZ tire on its XX profile wheel.

Now, why didn't BRP choose to use car tires on the Spyder when it was developed? Good question for which we'll never get an answer. But I'm going to speculate that when Bosch was developing the VSS software, or Nanny, the engineers determined that the tires needed to have some certain handling characteristics that most car tires did not provide so they said the Spyder needs a tire with special characteristics. BRP probably then decided to use a wheel size that was not being used for cars to ensure that only tires meeting the Bosch requirements would be used on the Spyders. Again, this is my speculation. We can be sure BRP will never tell us the real story. Keep in mind that what Bosch knew about how the Spyder would handle is quite a bit different than what they understand today. Otherwise we wouldn't see the relaxation in Nanny controls that now exist. If Bosch and BRP knew back in 2005 what they know now, quite possibly they would choose to go with standard car tires.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I see nothing in the Federal regs that states a manufacturer cannot use a car wheel on a motorcycle if the motorcycle maker deems it to be suitable. So if it does, then any tire that a tire maker says can be mounted on that specific rim can be used on the motorcycle. I have no easy way to verify it, but I'm sure even though HD wheels are designed specifically for HD trikes, i.e., the bolt hole pattern and offset are not the same as most car wheels, the tire mounting cross section profile is identical to a standard Tire & Rim Association profile for car tires. So when Dunlop, Goodyear, or whoever says a P205/R15 is designed and approved to fit on XX rim profile, and the HD wheel matches the XX rim profile, there is nothing to keep HD from mounting that car tire on their rim.

In short, since HD wheel has XX profile, and ZZ tire is approved by its maker to fit on XX profile rim, HD can mount ZZ tire on its XX profile wheel.

Now, why didn't BRP choose to use car tires on the Spyder when it was developed? Good question for which we'll never get an answer. But I'm going to speculate that when Bosch was developing the VSS software, or Nanny, the engineers determined that the tires needed to have some certain handling characteristics that most car tires did not provide so they said the Spyder needs a tire with special characteristics. BRP probably then decided to use a wheel size that was not being used for cars to ensure that only tires meeting the Bosch requirements would be used on the Spyders. Again, this is my speculation. We can be sure BRP will never tell us the real story. Keep in mind that what Bosch knew about how the Spyder would handle is quite a bit different than what they understand today. Otherwise we wouldn't see the relaxation in Nanny controls that now exist. If Bosch and BRP knew back in 2005 what they know now, quite possibly they would choose to go with standard car tires.

Thank you, thank you :thumbup: …. as far as your paragraph #3 goes … The Kenda tires have had four iterations since original design, imho there is no way all four could have been covered by the orig. Bosche VSS & traction control system ….. so the tires do not enter into the equation … not the physical composition, not the number of plies nor the tread pattern of the tires really matters.... Our cars and trks can pretty much use whatever you put on the Rim / Wheel …. and the same goes for the Spyder. …. I also agree there is quite a lot we will never be privy to from BRP. … The only difference between the HD wheels and Spyders is the hub / bolt pattern and back-space. They are both " J " type rims & MUST have tires with " J " type wheels..... BRP can ( & will ) spin this to suit themselves but the Truth matters...… thank you for the pleasant conversation ….. Mike

 

[Wahrsuul]

Went to dealership today and took a couple pics of the new Kenda tires a 2020 RT

Sorry, those are the "original" Kendas, not the new Canines.

 

[troop]

I'll add to the page count. 165/60R15 Vredestein fronts mounted/balanced. 18 PSI sound right ?

** Found a thread. Gonna start at 17# **

 

[Lew L]

I've the 165/60R15 Vredestein fronts mounted/balanced. Couldn't be happier even though I've only put about 75 miles on them. Also went up to 18 psi.

Lew L

 

[RICZ]

On the subject of tires and wheels......
I removed a front wheel for the first time and attempting to put it back on was a nightmare. Good thing my 10 yo great grandson was helping me and I had him spot the studs and holes alignment for me. This took a lot of muscle work and time, so I want to know, what's the trick to mounting the wheel?

 

[SteveLaoyster]

On the subject of tires and wheels......
I removed a front wheel for the first time and attempting to put it back on was a nightmare. Good thing my 10 yo great grandson was helping me and I had him spot the studs and holes alignment for me. This took a lot of muscle work and time, so I want to know, what's the trick to mounting the wheel?

Just like an old VW Bug with the large bolt pattern. You sit on the floor, make a Y with your feet (heels on the floor, toes pointed out), put the tire on your toes and adjust as needed until the holes line up. nojoke I did this many times with my Bug and it works with the spider too if it's up high enough. It's always handy to have another pair of hands and eyes to help out also.

 

[RICZ]

Just like an old VW Bug with the large bolt pattern. You sit on the floor, make a Y with your feet (heels on the floor, toes pointed out), put the tire on your toes and adjust as needed until the holes line up. nojoke I did this many times with my Bug and it works with the spider too if it's up high enough. It's always handy to have another pair of hands and eyes to help out also.

Thanks Steve, I'll give that a try.
BTW, I removed the wheel to access the bleeder valve. Is there a way to get to that valve without taking the wheel off?

 

[UtahPete]

Is it just me or do others think the recent posts are way off topic?

 

[RICZ]

Is it just me or do others think the recent posts are way off topic?

Sorry to crash this party, I thought I'd catch the eyes of the guys here while on a tire and wheel subject.