Shop knowing better then me?

[Baron14y]

This. I would never let any vehicle leave my shop with pressures that low. Too much liability.

I agree with PMK. The shop does know better than you do, in this case. If you want to run your tire at that pressure, I'd recommend setting the pressures yourself after any repair visits.

One thing I'm curious about, though: What did OP's repair invoice say regarding tire pressures?

18 psi

 

[2dogs]

Politics

I wonder if it has to do with Canadian trade policy. I read somewhere that economically, Canada is tied very closely with China, in contrast to the US which is dialing back its Chinese investments. Granted that Kenda is Taiwanese, not mainland China, but still. So perhaps there is some internal political pressure to keep trade with China, hence BRP's corporate reluctance to use a different OEM tire.

Yep, sometimes politics trumps everything else. I try and keep my distance from the subject because for onlookers it can be difficult at times to distinguish who's the most misinformed.

 

[Knight]

18 psi

No, I mean, what *exactly* did it say? Normally, on a repair invoice, you'd see something like this:

Inflate rear tire to 18 PSI per customer request

Tech notes: Inflated front tires to * PSI, rear tire to 18 PSI per customer request

Or, it might have said this:

Inflate rear tire to 18 PSI per customer request

Tech notes: Unable to set rear tire pressure to 18 PSI, too far below spec. Set pressure to * PSI per manufacturer recommendations

Or, it might not mention the pressures at all, which would also be telling.

 

[Baron14y]

no, i mean, what *exactly* did it say? Normally, on a repair invoice, you'd see something like this:



Or, it might have said this:



Or, it might not mention the pressures at all, which would also be telling.

it exactly said "rear tire - set pressure to 18lbs(customer supplied tire)"

Inflate rear tire to 18 PSI per customer request

Tech notes: Unable to set rear tire pressure to 18 PSI, too far below spec. Set pressure to * PSI per manufacturer recommendations

What is the recommended pressure from the mfg for an auto tire on a Spyder? And where do you find it?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

it exactly said "rear tire - set pressure to 18lbs(customer supplied tire)"

Inflate rear tire to 18 PSI per customer request

Tech notes: Unable to set rear tire pressure to 18 PSI, too far below spec. Set pressure to * PSI per manufacturer recommendations

What is the recommended pressure from the mfg for an auto tire on a Spyder? And where do you find it?

:gaah:... No - Auto tire manufacturer has this number because it doesn't exist...…. Mike hyea:

 

[Knight]

it exactly said "rear tire - set pressure to 18lbs(customer supplied tire)"

If that's the case, my guess what happened was an error on the service writer's part. The tech probably saw the work order, thought to himself, "No way am I gonna do that," then set the pressures normally. Then the tech either didn't write any notes, or the writer misread the notes and instead assumed the tech did the work & typed it up himself. Either way, that's on the service writer. I'd bring it to the shop's attention, just to let them know about the error, and hopefully they'll catch it in the future.

What is the recommended pressure from the mfg for an auto tire on a Spyder? And where do you find it?

The only recommended pressure that a shop has to go by is either the pressure recommended on the tire pressure sticker on the vehicle, or the max pressure listed on the tire. Like Blueknight said, neither is going to take into account that you're putting a car tire on a motorcycle. In that instance, the shop is going to err on the side of caution, and go with a pressure that's standard for the tire.

 

[2dogs]

If that's the case, my guess what happened was an error on the service writer's part. The tech probably saw the work order, thought to himself, "No way am I gonna do that," then set the pressures normally. Then the tech either didn't write any notes, or the writer misread the notes and instead assumed the tech did the work & typed it up himself. Either way, that's on the service writer. I'd bring it to the shop's attention, just to let them know about the error, and hopefully they'll catch it in the future.



The only recommended pressure that a shop has to go by is either the pressure recommended on the tire pressure sticker on the vehicle, or the max pressure listed on the tire. Like Blueknight said, neither is going to take into account that you're putting a car tire on a motorcycle. In that instance, the shop is going to err on the side of caution, and go with a pressure that's standard for the tire.

You know that somewhere sometime in the future, there's going to be a accident involving a spyder running vehicle tires and the victims are going to hire an attorney who will reach out to find the deepest pockets possible. Afterwards we'll have to take our car tires and rims to Mexico to get them mounted. CA will likely be the first state to pass a law against placing/installing car tires on a motorcycle.

 

[Gwolf]

I won't be taking mine to Mexico.......... not as long as Harbor Freight makes a tire changing stand. It is pretty much the same thing I was using in the lube bay of the service station I worked at 55 years ago. Rim savers will protect the wheels. They got bubble balances too. Sure, the electric over hydraulic is convenient and the spin balancers do a great job, but we used to do it with muscle power and still can. I still got a couple different sets of tire spoons in my shop. Have used them on motorcycles wheels fairly recently too.

 

[Baron14y]

:gaah:... No - Auto tire manufacturer has this number because it doesn't exist...…. Mike hyea:

Was asked tongue in cheek!hyea:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Was asked tongue in cheek!hyea:

:roflblack::roflblack: ,.. is there a-tongue-in-cheek emoji ??????…. :dontknow: …….. Mike hyea:

 

[Peteoz]

You know that somewhere sometime in the future, there's going to be a accident involving a spyder running vehicle tires and the victims are going to hire an attorney who will reach out to find the deepest pockets possible. Afterwards we'll have to take our car tires and rims to Mexico to get them mounted. CA will likely be the first state to pass a law against placing/installing car tires on a motorcycle.

I would agree if we were running on motorcycle rims, 2dogs, but we aren’t. We are running “special” motorcycle tyres (Can Am covering their backside by using “special” ) on J type car/light truck rims. That means that we are simply replacing the stock OEM tyres with tyres of a higher spec, which you are perfectly entitled to do. That has been confirmed by an insurance assessor out here with one of the largest insurance firms. (The one I am insured with . )
I do agree completely however that sooner or later there will be some kind of suit against someone running a car tyre on a two wheel motorcycle specific rim.

Pete

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I would agree if we were running on motorcycle rims, 2dogs, but we aren’t. We are running “special” motorcycle tyres (Can Am coveting their backside by using “special” ) on J type car/light truck rims. That means that we are simply replacing the stock OEM tyres with tyres of a higher spec, which you are perfectly entitled to do. That has been confirmed by an insurance assessor out here with one of the largest insurance firms. (The one I am insured with . )
I do agree completely however that sooner or later there will be some kind of suit against someone running a car tyre on a two wheel motorcycle specific rim.

Pete

hyea: …. Here in the U.S. the Moss Magnussen act, causes anyone who challenges what you were using ( ie auto tires ) to PROVE they were the cause of the accident..... I've testified many, many times in court and from what I've learned it would be extremely difficult to prove a BETTER tire was the problem ….. jmho ….. good luck …. Mike hyea:

 

[2dogs]

Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post

I would agree if we were running on motorcycle rims, 2dogs, but we aren’t. We are running “special” motorcycle tyres (Can Am coveting their backside by using “special” ) on J type car/light truck rims. That means that we are simply replacing the stock OEM tyres with tyres of a higher spec, which you are perfectly entitled to do. That has been confirmed by an insurance assessor out here with one of the largest insurance firms. (The one I am insured with . )
I do agree completely however that sooner or later there will be some kind of suit against someone running a car tyre on a two wheel motorcycle specific rim.

Pete
…. Here in the U.S. the Moss Magnussen act, causes anyone who challenges what you were using ( ie auto tires ) to PROVE they were the cause of the accident..... I've testified many, many times in court and from what I've learned it would be extremely difficult to prove a BETTER tire was the problem ….. jmho ….. good luck …. Mike

BRP will never back off of "special," and I wouldn't want to be the defendant in the first civil case. "Difficult to prove," maybe, but still possible if enough money is involved.

 

[PMK]

it exactly said "rear tire - set pressure to 18lbs(customer supplied tire)"

Inflate rear tire to 18 PSI per customer request

Tech notes: Unable to set rear tire pressure to 18 PSI, too far below spec. Set pressure to * PSI per manufacturer recommendations

What is the recommended pressure from the mfg for an auto tire on a Spyder? And where do you find it?

As I mentioned before, the tech has the ability to override the service writer and even the customer when the request deviates from approved tech pubs.

We often deal with similar types of concerns regarding aircraft maintenance. For comparison, a private aircraft arrives for an inspection or repair. The customer completes incoming paperwork regarding the requested workscope. As techs, we have to utilize approved manuals and documents. These could include items such as tire pressures. If a customer requested a lower tire pressure, regardless of the reason, it is very certain it would still be inflated to the books published pressure, and signed off referencing that. If the customer wanted less pressure, he or she can adjust it to whatever they believe. The risk to the tech may be low, but the risk vs reward makes it not worthwhile.

When we find safety of flight items during repairs and the customer will not repair them, so be it, but each item is noted that the customer has been advised and elects to take as is, which is then signed by the customer. If unairworthy items are found during an inspection and the customer refuses to repair them, the customer is given a list of completed work and a list of discrepencies. This info is then entered as a logbook entry that essentially renders the aircraft unairworthy until the discrepencies are corrected. Again it is about risk vs reward.

 

[Baron14y]

As I mentioned before, the tech has the ability to override the service writer and even the customer when the request deviates from approved tech pubs.

As I said before, show me a tech publication for tire pressures on a Spyder for a car tire.opcorn:

 

[PMK]

As I mentioned before, the tech has the ability to override the service writer and even the customer when the request deviates from approved tech pubs.

As I said before, show me a tech publication for tire pressures on a Spyder for a car tire.opcorn:

Agree, there is none and why many shops refuse to install a car tire for you. There is no official data that indicates a car tire is safe, although for many years we have installed them. Not saying what you have or the pressure you prefer does not work for you. It all reverts away from skill and becomes a focus on liability.

So now you know, plan to adjust your tire pressures to your spec after that shop works on your Spyder.

If you had the work done at Broward Motorsports Hobe Sound, be grateful you did not get 100 psi in that tire.

 

[Peteoz]

BRP will never back off of "special," and I wouldn't want to be the defendant in the first civil case. "Difficult to prove," maybe, but still possible if enough money is involved.

Yeah, I understand exactly what you are saying, 2dogs. From my perspective, I believe the chances of that happening are miniscule, so I am comfortable........but........if BRP made a better, more robust tyre as an option to the Kenda, I would be using ONLY that tyre, not aftermarket. I am sure others are the same. I wonder if BRP realise how much ongoing revenue they are missing out on by only providing a Kenda/Arachnid?

Pete

 

[glennm]

I find it puzzling why they provide you with alternatives for oil and other items but not for tyres. I would have thought as long as the replacement meets (preferably) exceeds the minimum requirements all should be good. Oil doesn't need to be a specific brand nor globe replacements, nor brake fluid etc. and yet they are very specific in relation to the tyres.

 

[2dogs]

Tires are the only contact you have with the pavement and therefore are just as important safety wise as brakes, followed closely by shocks and hem links. That's why BRP refers to their choice of tires as "special."

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I find it puzzling why they provide you with alternatives for oil and other items but not for tyres. I would have thought as long as the replacement meets (preferably) exceeds the minimum requirements all should be good. Oil doesn't need to be a specific brand nor globe replacements, nor brake fluid etc. and yet they are very specific in relation to the tyres.

Tires are the only contact you have with the pavement and therefore are just as important safety wise as brakes, followed closely by shocks and hem links. That's why BRP refers to their choice of tires as "special."

I have no idea if other countries have accepted or adopted US regulations. The use of "Special Motorcycle Use" is not BRP covering their behind, but rather it's the tire maker complying with US regs. Every tire made for sale in the US must be labeled for its intended use. This is done by the tire designator such as "P" for passenger cars, "LT" for light truck, and so on. Other designations may be spelled out more completely like motorcycle tires. The tire manufacturer is required to state, and test for, which vehicles they intend the tire to be used on. Apparently no other tire maker other than Kenda and Arachnid (I think) have done so with regard to use on a Spyder, or Slingshot. BRP probably had to pay up front the cost of doing so because the market volume most likely could not be counted on to do so. So, until someone like General or Cooper determines the market is large enough to be profitable, and is willing to make a tire that is sized specifically for the Spyder, and perform the necessary analysis and testing to show that it is suitable to use on a Spyder, we will not see any other tire officially listed as a Spyder tire.

Think about how fickle American buyers can be. You think they will want to put a tire on their car that has a "P" designation but is followed by "Suitable for special motorcycle use"? And if Cooper is making a run of 100,000 of a certain car tire size do you really think they'll take the time and expense of halting production to change the designator from "P" to "Special motorcyle use" for about 5,000 more tires?

Keep in mind, market volume and revenue dictate the availability of any product. US federal safety regulations dictate the labels.

To move into the arena of speculation what if Honda or HD engineers have determined that a different design of tire would actually work best on the rear of a two wheeler? Do you really think they would want to jump through all the marketing a regulatory hoops to get one made and approved, only to sell maybe 5,000 of them? I don't know but I'm guessing that trike converters have gotten a special dispensation from NHTSA to allow car tires on the fixed axle of trikes. Doing so lets them escape the jungle of marketing costs and profitability of tires specific for trikes. Could BRP have done that at the outset of designing and marketing the Spyder? Maybe, but maybe no tire manufacturer other than Kenda was willing to work with them, or to go on record saying their car tire was suitable for a "light weight go-kart".