Spyder Idiosyncrasies.

[Airborne]

Hi all,

New here and my first posts, i have been around for a while soaking up the very useful information from everyone.

So, i recently bought a 2018 F3 LTD, love it, but!

Handling, i can't seem to fully control the steering, its flighty, sensitive and feels well, unsafe at times! I have had a 'laser wheel alignment' carried out and am satisfied that a good job was done and have tried different tire pressure from the 'book recommended' 15 psi to 'dealer recommended' 22 psi, still the same result.

Admittingly, roads surfaces are not great here and the roughther they are the worse it is, steep cambers and rough surface are the worst, wind makes it unstable as well, plus i only have 1000 km on her yet.

I am on OEM Kenda tires and i know that they are not the best out there, i rode an identical demo bike and it was exactly the same but was assured that the alignment would fix it on the new one, it hasn't.. I have read all the 'dos and don'ts' and other posts on this site and i remember to steer properly [push pull, lean in and relax].

I don't want to spend good money on modifying a brand new bike. Surly it should come out the box reasonably well made and 'fit for purpose'

Or, is it just me, do i need more time to get used to it, is 1000 km not enough to feel comfortable with the steering!

As mentioned i love this trike but!

Any thoughts gratefully appreciated

 

[Trbayth]

Are you coming off two wheels? If so you have a lot of muscle memory to unlearn. Give it some more time.

And welcome!

 

[Bfromla]

Least make it through to the brake in period. :lecturef_smilie:Lots depends on your previous riding experience & just getting comfortable on new machine. Sounds like a sway bar will help you, however is optional (still stock on mine @53k +miles). Maybe you can meet other Ryder’s in your area & they can show you more hands on assistance (like how a improved swaybar feels)opcorn::2thumbs:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

:congrats: & :welcome: ….. Hi, I know tires pretty well. Since your Spyder is new it has the OEM Kenda tires.... It is well known here that Kenda's are a weakly made tire, that has a higher than average Defect rate, among other things ….. I am an advocate of Auto tires to replace the Kenda's ( when they wear out ). I strongly believe ( for Spyder use ) Auto tires need much less air pressure to perform at their best …. NOT so with Kenda's, they NEED higher pressures to work, with Kenda's the air pressure keeps them from grounding the rims …. Not so with Auto tires ….. As far as Handling goes, a light touch works the best. Let the Spyder do the work. The best advice I got when switching from my GoldWing to the Spyder was - drive it like a car, after that I had no problems …. Practice using your Brakes, they can be very sensitive..... learning how they function / feel is extremely important ….. and if you haven't read the " Do's and Do not's " find that read it …… We are here to assist you in whatever amount you want ….. Mike hyea:

 

[CopperSpyder]

I think your trying too hard. Keep the tire pressure per the manual with the Kenda tires don't go to low. The lower pressures you see here on this site are for different type tires. Give it a little time if you have been riding two wheels for a long time it takes longer to trust and relax your grip on the F3. You are reacting to the bikes every move (wiggle) don't. It will come to you, I'm sure you will get some good advice from others also.

 

[bmccaffrey]

Usually grip can be a problem with the steering. You don't need to grip real hard. I just use my palms. If you are over gripping it will reflect i the steering Real light grip no death grip

 

[Airborne]

Thanks all, keep it coming, the more info the better!

Yep trying to have a light touch but suddenly a gust of wind or defect in the road surface throws me offline [and sometimes it feels off the bike] spooks me and have to concentrate on relaxing again.

So front Kenda tire pressure, have tried 18 to 22 psi, no difference suggestions please!

Have been on 2 wheels for most of my life but a year or more since i last rode, this is my first trike.

 

[h0gr1der]

Airborne;

I'm in the same boat as you, brand new 2018 RTL. Great advice above, very knowledgeable group of folks here. I had the same skittish feeling as you initially. After some 600-800 miles you will become more accustomed to it. I did replace my OEM Kendas at 800 miles with auto tires, they were out of round and couldn't be balanced out. My Vredestein auto tires,inflated to only 18 lbs (working on the pressure testing right now, between rain and lightning) do provide much better handling. My rear auto tire is coming in Tuesday, I've decided to abandon Kenda completely due to their poor quality control. Reading hundreds of tire stories on here and other places you see many stories of Kenda tires performing well, then you see a bunch with them performing poorly, apparently randomly.

My changes to improve my bikes stability (admittedly overkill) is 1. Replace all 3 tires (Fronts done so far). Still upcoming- 2. Add BajaRon front spring pre-load adjusters. 3. Laser Alignment and 4. BajaRon sway bar upgrade.

I will add this about Kendas. I'm using the 4 PSI rule for inflation. On auto tires installed on the Spyder, you will be using less air pressure than when the same tire is mounted on a car. I'm currently down to 18 PSI on the front, at 20 PSI running 1 hour on hot pavement the tire didn't increase more than 2 PSI indicating over inflation. The rear Kenda 225/50R15 started this same test at the recommended 28 PSI, and after 1 hour of riding it did increase to 32 PSI. Don't lower the Kenda pressures more than the minimum recommended pressure in the manual.

Most folks agree laser alignment is the best bang for the buck for one that is too twitchy. Apparently Can Am set the toe in too near 0 degrees, and it needs some mild toe in to be steady. But mine hasn't been modified at this very point more than installing 2 auto tires at the front and I've put over 1000 miles (1609 km) on it and I must admit I've adapted much more soundly to the bikes characteristics. I just think the added suspension jewelry will make the bike truly outstanding.

 

[ARtraveler]

:welcome: and :congrats:

All of what is said above is good. There is a learning curve of about 500 miles for experienced two wheelers. I took 1500 miles to get comfortable.

 

[starrider60]

Keep riding and it'll come to you. Was on 2 wheels from age 12 to 63. Went to a trike and hated it. Boring like riding in a pickup truck with the windows down. Got a 2017 RTS 18 months ago. Took me about 1000 miles to relax. Now have 19,000 plus miles on Samantha (she bewitched me) :doorag:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Alright, I can feel another epic tome coming on, so I apologise in advance, but here goes! :lecturef_smilie:

You will always get more 'road feedback' on a Spyder than you will on a 2 wheeled bike; after all, you've now got at least twice the contact patch up front and a pretty wide tire on the rear too, so that's gotta have some impact!! So settle into the seat, suck your belly in a bit to engage your core muscles, then try to conciously relax & drop your shoulders & arms, keep your elbows & wrists down & relaxed, and with a very gentle hold on the bars, and let yourself lightly guide the Spyder where you want it to go. Often, especially if you feel the twitchy & dartiness starting to happen more, it will be because you are focusing on the road much too close in! Lift your gaze, look out ahead as far as you can see the road, and lightly focussing on where you want your Spyder to be on the road ahead and the path you want to travel to get there, scan back along that path to the front of the bike. By focussing on the path you want to follow you can avoid letting all the little irregularities in the road back here upset that! Just don't forget to give the instruments & mirrors a glance every now & then too - a quick look every second scan or so maybe?! And remember, you don't hafta correct for EVERY little bump or twitch, just let the bike's suspension soak the little ones up & you keep on looking out ahead again, planning your way and lightly guiding your Spyder along the path that dodges any big obstacles or potholes etc without needing to react to any of the little twitches & darts that happen but don't really move you off your overall planned path! :2thumbs:

I've found that it can also help to ONLY PULL on the inside bar to negotiate a turn or to guide the Spyder; try not to 'push away' with your outside hand, just lightly pull only enough for the turn or correction needed, but work on that 'looking way out ahead & scanning back to the front of the bike' thing while you're only lightly focussing on the road surface itself. You need to let your eyes gloss over the little bumps & potential twitches so they can see & recognise the PATH you want to follow AND any real potential hazards, then you can lightly guide your Spyder using gentle muscle contractions to PULL the bar the way you want to go. Setting yourself up to pull rather than push will help you get your weight going the way it needs to go in order to minimise the feeling that the bike's trying to throw you off the outside of every corner; while pushing means you need to brace & push in the direction you really DON'T WANT to go, so your brain & body sorta cringes a bit when you do that and it makes pushing the outside bar a slightly unnatural & disconcerting thing that causes you tense up more & in doing so, increases the twitchiness you feel as you ryde, by twitching & reacting to every bump & hollow in the road surface. :sour:

Back to scanning well ahead - each scan shouldn't take a heap of time, it's more just keeping your eyes moving than it is letting them settle on any of the little things like the bumps & hollows or other things you want to avoid - it's almost a certainty that if you focus on something ahead, you'll hit it! So the further ahead you look & plan your path, the less immediate response you'll need to make to the little bumps & twitches that are in the road immediately ahead! And remember, you've got TWO wheels out front now, so there are going to be more of those bumps & twitches than on a bike with just ONE front wheel and besides, your Spyder has a helluva lot less inertial mass to move around in response to them than a cage or a truck, so of course you'll feel them more, but if you concentrate on THAT sorta stuff instead of scanning ahead & planning your path thru them while you lightly guide your Spyder along your chosen way by gently pulling on the inside bar, you'll end up with a very twitchy and busy ryde! :shocked:

So, Just Relax, Drop your Shoulders & Elbows, Lightly Guide your Spyder by Pulling on the bars, and Plan your Path as far ahead as you can while continually scanning along it, checking the instruments, mirrors, and for any potential risks or hazards ahead as you flick back out to as far ahead as you can see the road. A scan every second or so while you aren't all tensed up just doesn't give your eyes enough time to focus on the close in bumps or little things that aren't a risk, and if you LOOK at those things, you almost certainly WILL hit them; so scan way ahead & plot your path thru them by lightly guiding your Spyder thru gently pulling not pushing the bars and you'll enjoy your ryde a lot more! hyea:

 

[LeftCoast]

Lol I love your epic tomes Peter, keep em coming!

 

[SuperG]

Hi,

New 2018 RTL owner here. Just took delivery last week.

It's really only taken me about 100 miles to 'get the hang' of it, as far as steering control goes. To me, the most appropriate way to consider the handling of the spyder is more automotive, or at least NOT two-wheel motorcycle. You do not control the spyder using bodily balance inputs like you do on a two-wheeler. Forget all that - and quit 'leaning' on the handle bars - that's the source of the 'flightyness'.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Yep trying to have a light touch but suddenly a gust of wind or defect in the road surface throws me offline [and sometimes it feels off the bike] spooks me and have to concentrate on relaxing again.

Have been on 2 wheels for most of my life but a year or more since i last rode, this is my first trike.

When a wind gust hits you let it push you around. The Spyder will take care of itself. If you're holding tight then your movements in response to the wind will get transferred to the Spyder. As far as road surface defects here again, let the Spyder do it's thing. You'll be surprised how well it holds to a straight line.

In addition to what Peter says above realize that a two wheeler makes use of gyroscopic forces to dampen any tendency of the front wheel to turn quickly. You probably never felt the little twitches the front tire wanted to do because it couldn't. But there is no gyroscopic effect on the Spyder since the front wheels don't tilt during turns. So quick twitches of the wheel are fed to the handlebar, causing you to want to react. But your reaction is slower than the twitch event so when you correct the steering the twitch is already past so you're adding an additional movement into the steering, not preventing one.

 

[MonPaul]

Far from an expert, I just made it past break in with my "18 RTL. But I can tell you that you are not alone! There is definitely a learning curve, what bothers me most is wind like you said and when a road is banked. It is so different than 2 wheels I find myself drifting to the inside or outside depending on the bank.
There is some great advice here (I have been experimenting with the push-pull also) and I'm sure I will try more things in the next 1000 miles. I think the goal should be that we will just be able to ride without thinking about it! For me I am trying too hard, and thinking too much. Not only does that probably make things worse but I am not enjoying the ride.

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Welcome! It is you and not the Spyder but don’t worry you’ll get the hang of it. We spent the last two days with a Tasmanian Spyder rider and her husband. Do you know Beth and Phil? Great folks, we really enjoyed having them visit.

 

[h0gr1der]

Another thing that is taking me longer to get used to is 3 wheels and how they affect the characteristics of the bike. Seems self explanatory, but let me go through this. For me, I noticed that when you have a combination of ruts and road crown together, coupled with the wind off of an 18 wheeler, things can get real interesting fast. As the front tires are clearing the pull out of the 2 tire ruts and approaching the crown, the rear tire falls off into the leftmost rut and causes the bike to react differently than anything I've been used too. All kinds of dynamics there. There is also the visual thing about clearly seeing the front 2 wheels. Junk in the road... I'll just straddle it. BAM. Rear wheel takes the hit. Oops, forgot about that one back there. There is a pretty narrow space you can squeeze an object through under the bike and not hit any wheel, something like a foot and a half or so. I'm still trying to get that right.

Don't give up yet. I had to transition to 3 wheels, looked hard at all the options. Goldwing trike is the gold standard, but now I'm glad I got the Spyder. I can corner it much more sportingly than my last cruiser. That, and the actual gear for reverse made this a great choice. I think these are much more stable than a normal trike. If it ever stops storming I'm going to go put more miles on the one I have.

 

[Airborne]

Wow! your response have been outstanding. So many views that all point to the same thing, Its normal!! That's great. its given me a real boost of confidence.

Thanks! i'll stick with it, it's just great to get all your advice and to realize that it's my reaction to a totally unfamiliar bike/situation Thanks again!! You guys Rock!

Peter, sage advice and i can't believe how in depth you can get, i have listened to and received your knowledge from sites here in OZ under another name [this site won't accept my other name]

No! i don't know the couple from here in Tas but good on them for traveling to the US.

Thank You for all your time spent replying to my 'slightly panicked' post and all your welcomes, very much appreciated, i worked with and alongside US forces when 'in service' and found your guys to be very friendly and helpful.

Think i'll stick around for a while.

 

[heynavt1]

Peter is spot on. Just got back from 5 days riding the Dragon. Got a 2017 RTL last year after not riding a bike in 40 years so going to the Dragon inexperienced as I was a daunting task. First time through I rode stiff and formal and I was all over the place. The second time I relaxed the shoulders and elbows, leaned into the inside of the curve and the difference was amazing. With the elbows dropped the very act of leaning into the curve the arm and hand naturally pulled the inside hand. Curves that I struggled to maintain at 20 mph were rock solid and smooth as glass at 40 mph. Relax and let the bike d0 the work and it totally smoothed out the ride.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

There is also the visual thing about clearly seeing the front 2 wheels. Junk in the road... I'll just straddle it. BAM. Rear wheel takes the hit. Oops, forgot about that one back there. There is a pretty narrow space you can squeeze an object through under the bike and not hit any wheel, something like a foot and a half or so.

Yep, you've got that right! One of the reasons I use a car tire is if I "unmiss" an obstacle a car tire is a lot less likely to get punctured than a thin skinned Kenda!