F3T - Speaker and sound improvement ?

[Rattlebars]

You do realize that all this is beyond the pay grades of 99.99% of the folks on this Forum ....... and based on what you have posted above ..... I stand by my original " 2 Ohm's speakers draw .... LESS .... than 4 Ohm speakers. .... Thank you for your input on this topic...... The many Members here who followed my lead on the entire ...TWO OHM speaker thing .... are not likely to trash the JBL's ......... let's agree we can dis-agree and move on .... Mike :thumbup:

Again, we simply have a disagreement about terms, nothing more. "2 Ohm's speakers draw .... LESS" WHAT???

You are speaking of RESISTANCE and I'm speaking of POWER. Oddly, this post >CLICK ME< shows you knew that 2 ohm speakers would double the power of your ST stereo. What you don't seem to know is that THIS CAN AND WILL FRY AN AMPLIFIER THAT CAN'T HANDLE THE EXTRA POWER (HEAT). That is why somebody warned you it might do just that.

Again, you put those JBL speakers in a 2014 ST model that does not have the same stereo as does the 2016 + F3. I tested the JBL speakers you recommended and they won't work on a F3 stereo. In fact I don't believe there is a way to do it on the CAN BUS F3. I have no knowledge of the CAN BUS status of a 2014 ST. On the F3 the CAN BUS is a complete pain in the a$$.

Further discussion with you will be avoided from now on. How's your MAGA hat doing?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OHM'S - IPEDENCE etc

Again, we simply have a disagreement about terms, nothing more. "2 Ohm's speakers draw .... LESS" WHAT??s ...on numerous posts from me I used the term " POWER "

You are speaking of RESISTANCE and I'm speaking of POWER.....My mention of " RESISTANCE " was in connection to " IMPEDENCE ", because they are the SAME thing - - " Impedence is just an electrical term .....Oddly, this post >CLICK ME< shows you knew that 2 ohm speakers would double the power of your ST 14 .....In a few of my posts here I have Stated I have an ... RT ... NOT an ST !!! .........What you don't seem to know is that THIS CAN AND WILL FRY AN AMPLIFIER THAT CAN'T HANDLE THE EXTRA POWER (HEAT).... I agree with this as a " THEORY ", a piano can also fall and KILL you, and that is also a THEORY ..... I stated previously I have over 4 yrs and 40,000 mi. of listening pleasure with my " Theoretically dangers 2 Ohm speakers ....but to make " Easy Rider " feel like a winner ) possibly a New feeling ) I said I was going to Trash my JBL's and Sue JBL for false advertising ..... all this can be found in the following posts #16-19-21-23-40 ..... That is why somebody warned you it might do just that .., Yes that gave me to pause ... and Call JBL, Their Tech told me it wasn't an issue - He was correct

Again, you put those JBL speakers in a 2014 ST model that does not have the same stereo as does the 2016 + F3. I tested the JBL speakers you recommended and they won't work on a F3 stereo. In fact I don't believe there is a way to do it on the CAN BUS F3. I have no knowledge of the CAN BUS status of a 2014 ST. On the F3 the CAN BUS is a complete pain in the a$$.

Further discussion with you will be avoided from now on. How's your MAGA hat doing?

Read my comments in BLUE above ..... and watch out for those Piano's ..... Until I read posts from Billy Bovine, I did not know BRP decided to get a WORSE radio system :banghead::banghead::banghead: ...... BRP did the same thing with the DESS system ....some brilliant engineer decided something that worked fine - needed to be FIXED :lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack:..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[amcvay1979]

This is actually a good thread, very interesting.

I've been doing my own car audio system installs since I was 15 and I'm by no means an Electrical Engineer....the argument here is purely semantics. Typical car audio speakers are 4 ohms. You can find 1 ohm, or 2 ohm, or even 3...or 8 for that matter.

Most OEM head units are pretty underpowered and rate around 15 watts per channel for a 4 ohm load (each channel). By reducing impedance, you're changing out a garden hose for a fire hose...the water isn't coming out any more powerful, but the restriction is reduced by quite a bit. Same thing with a 2 ohm load. The amplifier will typically deliver more wattage to a channel on a lower impedance than a higher one. Hence, a 2ohm speaker will essentially double the amplifiers output while drawing the same 12-14.5v of power....but there's more to it than that.

Using the fire hose analogy again, just because you're now seeing more water volume from the same source, doesn't mean it's going to be sprayed where you want it. Same thing with sound output. While the output increases, you're going to get a much more "dirty" sound than what was delivered at a 4 ohm load. That's not to say it won't sound good, but THD or Total Harmonic Distortion will increase as the output of the amp or head unit impedance decreases. When you find an audiophile quality amp that's very expensive, it's typically because it can deliver a very low THD at 2 ohms or lower and thus, a very clean sound. That's what you're paying for.

On the F3L, I'm getting an 18 tomorrow, so I don't have much seat time in one yet, but I thought the sound was pretty meh at 60 mph, no low end, pretty muddled highs and mids, (still better than the RT's though) so I thought about digging into it and getting some better sound out.....then I realize I can just play audio through my helmet's bluetooth system so it's kind of moot.

Either way, putting in 2 ohm speakers on a system that was designed for 4 ohm can work, but it can also backfire by pushing the amp too hard can ultimately shorten it's life, or at the very least send in-audible distortion to your new speakers causing them to blow earlier in their life span too....but it not always. If it works for you, keep doing it and enjoy!

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

2 ohm JBL speakers and the sound

This is actually a good thread, very interesting.

I've been doing my own car audio system installs since I was 15 and I'm by no means an Electrical Engineer....the argument here is purely semantics. Typical car audio speakers are 4 ohms. You can find 1 ohm, or 2 ohm, or even 3...or 8 for that matter.

Most OEM head units are pretty underpowered and rate around 15 watts per channel for a 4 ohm load (each channel). By reducing impedance, you're changing out a garden hose for a fire hose...the water isn't coming out any more powerful, but the restriction is reduced by quite a bit. Same thing with a 2 ohm load. The amplifier will typically deliver more wattage to a channel on a lower impedance than a higher one. Hence, a 2ohm speaker will essentially double the amplifiers output while drawing the same 12-14.5v of power....but there's more to it than that.

Using the fire hose analogy again, just because you're now seeing more water volume from the same source, doesn't mean it's going to be sprayed where you want it. Same thing with sound output. While the output increases, you're going to get a much more "dirty" sound than what was delivered at a 4 ohm load. That's not to say it won't sound good, but THD or Total Harmonic Distortion will increase as the output of the amp or head unit impedance decreases. When you find an audiophile quality amp that's very expensive, it's typically because it can deliver a very low THD at 2 ohms or lower and thus, a very clean sound. That's what you're paying for.

On the F3L, I'm getting an 18 tomorrow, so I don't have much seat time in one yet, but I thought the sound was pretty meh at 60 mph, no low end, pretty muddled highs and mids, (still better than the RT's though) so I thought about digging into it and getting some better sound out.....then I realize I can just play audio through my helmet's bluetooth system so it's kind of moot.

Either way, putting in 2 ohm speakers on a system that was designed for 4 ohm can work, but it can also backfire by pushing the amp too hard can ultimately shorten it's life, or at the very least send in-audible distortion to your new speakers causing them to blow earlier in their life span too....but it not always. If it works for you, keep doing it and enjoy!

I agree what you have stated is interesting …….. interesting in that your claims are based on " THEORY " …..mine are based on ACTUALLY having the speakers installed with complete success for over 40,000 miles of listening..... I did this swap 4+ yrs. ago and was told about the " THEORY " of possible destruction of the speakers and or the entire system …. So I contacted JBL and was assured the " Destruction " was NOT going to occur and it appears the JBL engineers know what they are selling ……. If you go to Spyder Quest next year I will be very happy to demonstrate my " 2 ohm JBL speakers " for you...…….. I'm curious about the word " meh " above …. I realize it was a typo ….. what did you mean to type ????? …… Thanks …. Mike :thumbup:

 

[amcvay1979]

I agree what you have stated is interesting …….. interesting in that your claims are based on " THEORY " …..mine are based on ACTUALLY having the speakers installed with complete success for over 40,000 miles of listening..... I did this swap 4+ yrs. ago and was told about the " THEORY " of possible destruction of the speakers and or the entire system …. So I contacted JBL and was assured the " Destruction " was NOT going to occur and it appears the JBL engineers know what they are selling ……. If you go to Spyder Quest next year I will be very happy to demonstrate my " 2 ohm JBL speakers " for you...…….. I'm curious about the word " meh " above …. I realize it was a typo ….. what did you mean to type ????? …… Thanks …. Mike :thumbup:

I meant Meh...as in nothing to write home about. The volume kills the low end and distortion comes right behind it. Typically when I do my car installs I throw more watts at speakers than they're advertised to handle, only by providing ultra clean power to the speakers. Then you'll get loud, but also detailed ranges and even though you're providing 2 or 3 times the power they're advertised to handle, the speakers live on for years and years.

I don't doubt your speakers sound great and are still going strong, it all depends on the internals of the amp or stock head unit. If they're built well and are stable at 2 ohms with a low THD it's a beautiful thing.

 

[Rattlebars]

Good post. The 18 is different than the 16-17 in that the actual audio unit is inside the dash instead of under the "seat" or so I'm told. I read in the manual that the OEM audio unit puts out 80 watts (which I don't believe for a minute). The audio is harsh and muddy at the same time so that 80 watts ???? meh. The OEM "woofers" have a magnet that is about as round as a quarter and about an inch deep if you have not see them.

If you are successful, please start a new thread about it. I would be very interested.

This is actually a good thread, very interesting.

I've been doing my own car audio system installs since I was 15 and I'm by no means an Electrical Engineer....the argument here is purely semantics. Typical car audio speakers are 4 ohms. You can find 1 ohm, or 2 ohm, or even 3...or 8 for that matter.

Most OEM head units are pretty underpowered and rate around 15 watts per channel for a 4 ohm load (each channel). By reducing impedance, you're changing out a garden hose for a fire hose...the water isn't coming out any more powerful, but the restriction is reduced by quite a bit. Same thing with a 2 ohm load. The amplifier will typically deliver more wattage to a channel on a lower impedance than a higher one. Hence, a 2ohm speaker will essentially double the amplifiers output while drawing the same 12-14.5v of power....but there's more to it than that.

Using the fire hose analogy again, just because you're now seeing more water volume from the same source, doesn't mean it's going to be sprayed where you want it. Same thing with sound output. While the output increases, you're going to get a much more "dirty" sound than what was delivered at a 4 ohm load. That's not to say it won't sound good, but THD or Total Harmonic Distortion will increase as the output of the amp or head unit impedance decreases. When you find an audiophile quality amp that's very expensive, it's typically because it can deliver a very low THD at 2 ohms or lower and thus, a very clean sound. That's what you're paying for.

On the F3L, I'm getting an 18 tomorrow, so I don't have much seat time in one yet, but I thought the sound was pretty meh at 60 mph, no low end, pretty muddled highs and mids, (still better than the RT's though) so I thought about digging into it and getting some better sound out.....then I realize I can just play audio through my helmet's bluetooth system so it's kind of moot.

Either way, putting in 2 ohm speakers on a system that was designed for 4 ohm can work, but it can also backfire by pushing the amp too hard can ultimately shorten it's life, or at the very least send in-audible distortion to your new speakers causing them to blow earlier in their life span too....but it not always. If it works for you, keep doing it and enjoy!

 

[jpat88]

impedance

Hi guys, hello from France (sorry for my English)
what is the impedance BRP speaker 4,5" ? 2 or 4 ohms ? if it is 2 ohms, there isn't speaker in the trade
FM sound is bad
USB sound is better but it's still average
what is the solution ?
thank
JP

 

[opiewhan]

Hi all Spyder Riders,

Has anyone ever added or modified F3T's original speakers for something better?

I like the integrated radio and that I can stream music from my iPhone directly through the USB cable, but i'd like to improve the sound quality.

I was thinking about changing the front speakers or to add something in the rear (I don't have the BRP top case).

I I had something in the rear, will I need to purchase the BRP rear amplifier or can I add any after market one ?

Any comment or experience is appreciated as always !

Thanks

I can tell you the speakers that came out of my 2011 RT looked like WalMart quality.. Replaced the rear with Kenwood and the front with Xfinity speakers and sounds GREAT..

 

[Rattlebars]

This tread is in the F3 section hence RT references are not useful but thanks anyway.

 

[archibald609]

This setup is amazing

Please check out this link from Derrick Johnson

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwilqMqomNndAhVFOq0KHZPEBZUQtwIIKTAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvHqPbodBkc&usg=AOvVaw2gBYrlJA8FKf1cNsv4_Heb

 

[Kredab]

nice job

Please check out this link from Derrick Johnson

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwilqMqomNndAhVFOq0KHZPEBZUQtwIIKTAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvHqPbodBkc&usg=AOvVaw2gBYrlJA8FKf1cNsv4_Heb

That's a good video, I'm glad people are starting to figure out how to make these Spyders sound better

 

[jpat88]

Ohms

Nice but speakers are 2 or 4 ohms ?

 

[Rattlebars]

Please check out this link from Derrick Johnson

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwilqMqomNndAhVFOq0KHZPEBZUQtwIIKTAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvHqPbodBkc&usg=AOvVaw2gBYrlJA8FKf1cNsv4_Heb

sure would like to know how he wired it into the system for speakers.

 

[Kredab]

sure would like to know how he wired it into the system for speakers.

When I got my amp put in my RT, I let the local custom stereo shop do it - no issues and it wasn't a terrible install price. check out your local stores

 

[JP58]

I have an 2018 F3L. My speakers make a popping sound during moderate to higher bass songs. Is it the woofers or tweeters. Only the front do it. I only have the bass set at 50 percent. What do I need to fix this.

 

[Rattlebars]

I have an 2018 F3L. My speakers make a popping sound during moderate to higher bass songs. Is it the woofers or tweeters. Only the front do it. I only have the bass set at 50 percent. What do I need to fix this.

Speakers. i'm trying to get mine warranteed.

 

[Rattlebars]

When I got my amp put in my RT, I let the local custom stereo shop do it - no issues and it wasn't a terrible install price. check out your local stores

RTs don't count. Sorry. I tried setting up an amp from the woofer leads, but the stereo unit does not put out the full spectrum, just the lows. I have not tried the "midrange" yet. We will see.

 

[JP58]

Speakers. i'm trying to get mine warranteed.

It's done it since new. Wouldn't the replacements do the same thing or did they ruin them when installed at the factory.

 

[Rattlebars]

It's done it since new. Wouldn't the replacements do the same thing or did they ruin them when installed at the factory.

Mine only do it at highway speeds & hi volume. They did it since new.

 

[JP58]

Mine only do it at highway speeds & hi volume. They did it since new.

Same here so I don't think getting new ones from dealer will fix it. I would like to get some after market ones. But don't know what will work. I do not want to have to cut or add amps. Just want good speakers