F3T - Speaker and sound improvement ?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

DON'T GET 528'S OR 428'S FOR THE F3! tHE STOCK STERO WILL NOT DRIVE THEM.

Preliminary testing, the stock radio will not drive the big magnets. All they did was rattle when I tried to hook them up. I have a Rockford Fosgate 200 watt 2 channel amp with high level inputs which I will try once I mount the 528;s in my LX470 back doors. Again, i'm reasonably sure the woofers do not get full range and the crossover is mounted in the unit itself on teh F3.

BK - I was going to add 1/2" to 3/4" spacer to give room to mount them. There seems room to do so. Especially if you can delete the tweeters

:banghead: .... I think something is not quite right with your install ......2 Ohm speakers draw HALF the power that 4 Ohm ( the OEM speakers ) do ...... To the best of my knowledge Speaker Magnets ( or any rare earth ie. Molybdenum magnets ) don't use / draw any power at all, they are self magnetized .......... All OEM car radio's ( the basic ones in all cars ) are approx. 18 watts out-put .....JBL would have gone out of business a long time ago if they didn't work ....... jmho .... Mike

 

[Easy Rider]

....2 Ohm speakers draw HALF the power that 4 Ohm ( the OEM speakers ) do ......

Absolutely, positively, totally WRONG.

 

[Rattlebars]

......2 Ohm speakers draw HALF the power that 4 Ohm ( the OEM speakers ) do ......

lower ohm rating the more power they draw hence 2 ohm speakers will draw twice the power that 4 ohm speakers will. I don't think the F3 stereo is up to it.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

lower ohm rating the more power they draw hence 2 ohm speakers will draw twice the power that 4 ohm speakers will. I don't think the F3 stereo is up to it.

It's certainly possible I could be mis-informed (along with the speaker engineers at JBL) ........... However my understanding of "an OHM" is it defines an amount of RESISTANCE ...... So why would TWO Ohm's of resistance require MORE power than FOUR Ohm's of resistance ........ Back when I first did the TWO Ohm speaker thing I was told by one of the Spyderlover Forum EXPERTS (on radio's/stereo"s & Speakers " etc.) that He was REALLY REALLY sure I would A. burn up the head unit; B. burn up the wiring and/or BURN my Spyder to the ground :roflblack: So far, 40,000 miles and none of that has happened. JMHO Mike :thumbup: :gaah:

 

[Easy Rider]

I've been an Electronics Engineering Tech for over 50 years.
I KNOW what an ohm is... and I know what impedance is.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

:yikes: An " Ohm " is a measurement of Impedence ..............."Impedence" is another term for "RESISTANCE" .... and I don't have to tell you what resistance is .... You've been resisting FACTS - TRUTH in 95% of all your posts .....:lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Easy Rider]

An " Ohm " is a measurement of Impedence ..............." Impedence " is another term for " RESISTANCE " ....

Wrong again.
Just stop, please.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OHM -

Wrong again.
Just stop, please.

Well if I'm " WRONG " ....then Dear Mr. Electronics Engineering Tech for over 50 years "... please enlighten us here on Spyderlovers by telling us ..... WHAT AN OHM IS .....and WHAT IT DOES ....... Thanks in advance .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Rattlebars]

An OHM and IMPEDANCE are not the same, even though they are rated by the same term. I'm not an engineer by any means, but a simple Google search turned up this https://geoffthegreygeek.com/speaker-impedance-changes-amplifier-power I've been at this stereo and speaker impedance for over 50 years. I even built a set of klipsch hornes in my 20's (that will date me!)

If you are having an argument on the net for all to see, GOOGLE it before you make a fool of yourself. One can burn out an amplifier output transistors if one drops the impedance too low for the unit to handle it.

My GoldWing pages on stereo improvement http://www.rattlebars.com/chetswing/audiofile.html .

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Rattlebars
After reading your post #23, you state that 2 ohm's will draw TWICE the power of 4 ohm's .....yet the article you sent me to read, says EXACTLY the opposite ..... I'm confused as to why you referenced that article since IT supports what I have said..... I'm sorry but I don't have time to read 20,000 words about GOLDWINGS ..... Answer me this ... JBL is one of the oldest and largest company's ( and well respected ) producing audio speakers, they have specialized in 2 Ohm models .... How has this company survived in this very competitive market , by producing BAD Speakers. I use the term BAD because I get the impression you feel there is something wrong with using ... TWO OHM speakers ....Theories about what can happen when using 2 Ohm speakers don't match the FACT ( not theory ) that I have had my 2 Ohm set-up for over 4 years and 40,000 miles........As Billy Bovine said ...the 18 F-3 T radio is NOT the same as the 17 and earlier radio's ...Sooooooooooo it may not be the speakers at all that have caused you problems.........Mike

PPS, show me where I said Ohm's and Impedance are the same !!!! ... don't bother searching you will never find it :roflblack:

 

[Easy Rider]

If you are having an argument on the net for all to see, GOOGLE it before you make a fool of yourself.

OOPS. Too late. WAY too late. :roflblack:

 

[Easy Rider]

After reading your post #23, you state that 2 ohm's will draw TWICE the power of 4 ohm's ....

In order to talk (intelligently) about a subject, you first must understand the basics.
No electronic device "draws" power, it allows the power to flow.

Think about a hose and water flow. Opening the end of the hose does not "draw" the water out, it allows the water to flow. How much depends on the size of the hose and the pressure of the water. The flow of electricity works much the same way.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OHM's & " DRAW "

In order to talk (intelligently) about a subject, you first must understand the basics.
No electronic device "draws" power, it allows the power to flow.

Think about a hose and water flow. Opening the end of the hose does not "draw" the water out, it allows the water to flow. How much depends on the size of the hose and the pressure of the water. The flow of electricity works much the same way.

#1. - I don't know why you are quoting me about using the tem " DRAW " .... " Rattlebars " is the one who said it ........ # 2.- I asked you questions back in post #28 .... " What an Ohm is " and what it does " ........ if you don't know please say so ...... It's the honorable thing to do................ Mike :thumbup:

 

[Easy Rider]

# 2.- I asked you questions back in post #28 ....

Answering your "questions" is pointless because you don't listen.....or don't understand.....or both.

 

[Rattlebars]

Amplifier Output Power

Let’s say we have an amplifier. The specifications might say the output power is 100 watts RMS at 8 ohms.
Notice the power output (100 watts) is at a specified load (8 ohms). This is telling us that with an 8 ohm speaker, the maximum output power will be 100 watts.
An Ideal Amplifier

If our sample amplifier were an ideal amplifier, then we can also calculate¹ that:

• With a 4 ohm speaker, the maximum output power will be 200 watts.
• With a 16 ohm speaker, the maximum output power will be 50 watts.

The above shows that for an ideal amp, halving the impedance doubles the power output. Doubling the impedance halves the power output.

Impedance is the same as ohms in a way. If the restriction at the end of a circuit has LESS OHMS, the current will flow more than if the restriction is MORE OHMS. A 2 ohm speaker will LET (draw) more power from the amp flow than a FOUR OHM speaker would LET (draw) through. Sometimes it lets too much current through and the amplifier will burn out. Quoted above is the actual page I linked.


I'm convinced we merely have a discussion about definition. IMPEDANCE is roughly the same as RESISTANCE. If there is less resistance more juice will flow. More resistance, less will flow. Like opening the end of a hose.


Speaker magnets are permanent around the big hickey on the outside. How a speaker works is that it takes the pulses from the amplifier and changes the properties of the VOICE COIL (electromagnet) which is hidden inside the center of the speaker. That change in properties causes the voice coil to move up and down (vibrate) inside the permanent magnet and the cone emits the sound of that vibration. If the magnets on the outside are big, the voice coil must also be bigger to overcome the force of the static magnet.


This is, of course, as un-detailed as I can make the explanation. It's way more complex.


Your original quote is here:

.... I think something is not quite right with your install ......2 Ohm speakers draw HALF the power that 4 Ohm ( the OEM speakers ) do ...... To the best of my knowledge Speaker Magnets ( or any rare earth ie. Molybdenum magnets ) don't use / draw any power at all, they are self magnetized .......... All OEM car radio's ( the basic ones in all cars ) are approx. 18 watts out-put .....JBL would have gone out of business a long time ago if they didn't work ....... jmho .... Mike

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

QUESTIONS ????

Answering your "questions" is pointless because you don't listen.....or don't understand.....or both.

Admit it , you just don't know the answers :dontknow: :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ........... People really shouldn't make comments when they have no idea what they are talking about, un-fortunately you don't understand that concept :yikes: ............ Mike :thumbup:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OHM's - Impedance etc

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Impedance is the same as ohms in a way. If the restriction at the end of a circuit has LESS OHMS, the current will flow more than if the restriction is MORE OHMS. A 2 ohm speaker will LET (draw) more power from the amp flow than a FOUR OHM speaker would LET (draw) through. Sometimes it lets too much current through and the amplifier will burn out. Quoted above is the actual page I linked.


I'm convinced we merely have a discussion about definition. IMPEDANCE is roughly the same as RESISTANCE. If there is less resistance more juice will flow. More resistance, less will flow. Like opening the end of a hose.


Speaker magnets are permanent around the big hickey on the outside. How a speaker works is that it takes the pulses from the amplifier and changes the properties of the VOICE COIL (electromagnet) which is hidden inside the center of the speaker. That change in properties causes the voice coil to move up and down (vibrate) inside the permanent magnet and the cone emits the sound of that vibration. If the magnets on the outside are big, the voice coil must also be bigger to overcome the force of the static magnet.


This is, of course, as un-detailed as I can make the explanation. It's way more complex.


Your original quote is here:

You do realize that all this is beyond the pay grades of 99.99% of the folks on this Forum ....... and based on what you have posted above ..... I stand by my original " 2 Ohm's speakers draw .... LESS .... than 4 Ohm speakers. .... Thank you for your input on this topic...... The many Members here who followed my lead on the entire ...TWO OHM speaker thing .... are not likely to trash the JBL's ......... let's agree we can dis-agree and move on .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Easy Rider]

I stand by my original " 2 Ohm's speakers draw .... LESS .... than 4 Ohm speakers. ....

Of course you do.

Because you are stubborn and aren't capable of listening and learning anything when your mind is already made up.
In this case, you have it exactly backwards.
Apparently this discussion is way, WAY above your "pay grade".

The simple fact IS that a lower impedance speaker almost always needs to be fed more power to make the same level of audio output.
If your amp is not capable of supplying that extra power, the sound quality will suffer and possible amp damage can result.

Maybe a Google search for "ohms" will help but I seriously doubt it.
A second search for "speaker impedance" might help too.

Feeding this troll further is a waste of time.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OHM's - Impedance etc

Of course you do.

Because you are stubborn and aren't capable of listening and learning anything when your mind is already made up.
In this case, you have it exactly backwards.
Apparently this discussion is way, WAY above your "pay grade".

The simple fact IS that a lower impedance speaker almost always needs to be fed more power to make the same level of audio output.
If your amp is not capable of supplying that extra power, the sound quality will suffer and possible amp damage can result.

Maybe a Google search for "ohms" will help but I seriously doubt it.
A second search for "speaker impedance" might help too.

Feeding this troll further is a waste of time.

OK , OK , OK, You and Rattlebars are right and I'm wrong, I'm man enough to admit defeat ..... So first thing tomorrow I'm going to tear those CRAPPY - DANGEROUS 2 Ohm speakers off My RT and send them back to JBL and DEMAND they return my money ..... JBL has a lot of nerve selling those pieces of JUNK to an un-suspecting public ...... would it be OK if I sent them your info so you could explain to their Engineers just how STUPID they are !!!!! ...... and I'm also considering a LAWSUIT so I would really appreciate your EXPERT TESTIMONY on this ....... They may ask you about Ohm's etc. so be prepared .......... PS this TROLL is no longer interested in this topic, you have convinced me of the error of my mental in-eptitude ....... Thanks again for ALL the help on this subject .....after all what would Spyderlovers be without really, really smart folks like you :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:......Mike :thumbup:

 

[fraugher]

We really need a dedicated 2018 thread, as it's definitely different.

I now tried the GTO429 in front with and without tweeter, and was an absolute demerit, and before I get the pairing front and back bit... tried these at full fade.

I=current