W
widowmaker2011
Guest
First everyone must understand what a purge valve is and what it does.
The evap purge valve makes possible for the stored fuel vapors in the evap canister to enter the manifold to be burned. Its normal state is open, it is switched closed by application of voltage by the ECM.
Along with the vapors, air that enters to take place of gone gasoline in the fuel tank is also allowed to enter the intake manifold.
A faulty or evap purge valve that is not programmed to operate at the right time does not provide closing action . This results in constant introduction of unmeasured air into the intake manifold through the charcoal canister and driveability issues are very likely to occur.
OK lesson over - read on---
Ok so this isn't a theory on who shot JFK but in our world this remapping of the ECM in conjunction with the steering recall sure is getting alot of attention...
So Lets take what we know as facts in some sort of order:
1) there was a recall to address certain unique steering issues under certain circumstances on the Spyders
2) Unrelated to this recall (and common-place way before the recall was even thought of) there had been a number of Spyder owners who had experienced a raw fuel odor at various times during the operation of our Spyders. While numerous guesses were made as to the root, the majority of these smells were traced back to the operation of the fuel evap cansiter. The vent which releases the fumes to the atmosphere (or draws in fresh air) is on the right side of the Spyder just inside and forward of your right knee. Some have had this evap canister replaced , with good results , some have had this replaced with the fumes returning shortly thereafter.
3) After the recall many Spyder owners have enjoyed very fluid and smooth steering
hyea:
4) After the recall some spyders (ok more than some) have experienced driveability issues in relation to what has been found to be a lean condition at various RPM ranges, and has been most prevalant on Spyders with the BRP hindle exhaust or non-oem exhaust and air filters which enhance performance but make the SPyder run leaner than stock prior to the recall, only to make the Spyder too lean after the recall.
5) Some dealers and / or owners have taken matters into their own hands and plugged the evap purge line to the throttle body and the issue has been corrected, and a couple posts note that their dealers have been told on the phone by BRP to do this.
Ok so those are "facts".
Lets talk about the bulletin that the BRP dealer completes as part of the steering recall, and subsequent repair attempts:
1) During the recall , BRP also uses updates the ECM with a different fuel mapping program. This remap makes the Spyder run leaner (however we aren't exactly sure what they tweaked or how they arrived at the final mapping). Thus the driveability issues mentioned above that some have encountered.
a) some have returned their Spyders to stock and the Spyder runs perfect.
b) some have been luck enough to have a juice box fuel programmer and have been able to dial enough fuel into the system to get their powerband back to an acceptable range
c) some just have had no luck and their Spyder runs really bad and has an engine light on.
d) The thought of a defective purge valve has been the focus of some technicians diagnosis , however , for 50 Spyders to enter the shop and 50 spyders to leave the shop with defective purge valves is a stretch even Las vegas wouldn't take bets on.
OK , here comes the theory:
You are BRP, you have seen numerous issues with the gas smells , and many warranty claims replacing the evap canister . Your internal testing shows that perhaps the purge valve (which purges the evap canister) is not operating at the correct time and duration based upon the drive-cycle and a reprogram of the ecm will fix this. By reprogramming this you can "fix" the gas smell and also you reflash the ecm to improve fuel metering across the rpm range to accomodate this change .
This brings us to the oops. My theory is somewhere in that reflash , the combination of retiming the purge valve to help with the evap gas smell and the remapping of the fuel delivery clashes with what the ideal fuel/air ratio is for the spyders with the high flow exhaust and intakes. Perhaps the valve has been reprogrammed (through a timing adjustment for the voltage flow to it from the ecm) to stay open longer , sucking the fumes into the manifold......... but if the canister isn't full of fumes we will be sucking CLEAN 100% pure AIR......(For those of you in RioLinda ,thats spells LEAN) The stock bikes are also running lean but don't flow enough air through the restricted exhaust to exploit this issue.
Which brings us to the fix
My gut says BRP will re-issue a ecm update and get this right. (perhaps a stock reflash and one to be used with the hindle (insert your favorite aftermarket parts here). In the meantime you will hear of more people plugging the hose to help their driveability issues.
standard disclaimers apply , I could be way off base here , but I don't think I am.
The evap purge valve makes possible for the stored fuel vapors in the evap canister to enter the manifold to be burned. Its normal state is open, it is switched closed by application of voltage by the ECM.
Along with the vapors, air that enters to take place of gone gasoline in the fuel tank is also allowed to enter the intake manifold.
A faulty or evap purge valve that is not programmed to operate at the right time does not provide closing action . This results in constant introduction of unmeasured air into the intake manifold through the charcoal canister and driveability issues are very likely to occur.
OK lesson over - read on---
Ok so this isn't a theory on who shot JFK but in our world this remapping of the ECM in conjunction with the steering recall sure is getting alot of attention...
So Lets take what we know as facts in some sort of order:
1) there was a recall to address certain unique steering issues under certain circumstances on the Spyders
2) Unrelated to this recall (and common-place way before the recall was even thought of) there had been a number of Spyder owners who had experienced a raw fuel odor at various times during the operation of our Spyders. While numerous guesses were made as to the root, the majority of these smells were traced back to the operation of the fuel evap cansiter. The vent which releases the fumes to the atmosphere (or draws in fresh air) is on the right side of the Spyder just inside and forward of your right knee. Some have had this evap canister replaced , with good results , some have had this replaced with the fumes returning shortly thereafter.
3) After the recall many Spyder owners have enjoyed very fluid and smooth steering
hyea:4) After the recall some spyders (ok more than some) have experienced driveability issues in relation to what has been found to be a lean condition at various RPM ranges, and has been most prevalant on Spyders with the BRP hindle exhaust or non-oem exhaust and air filters which enhance performance but make the SPyder run leaner than stock prior to the recall, only to make the Spyder too lean after the recall.
5) Some dealers and / or owners have taken matters into their own hands and plugged the evap purge line to the throttle body and the issue has been corrected, and a couple posts note that their dealers have been told on the phone by BRP to do this.
Ok so those are "facts".
Lets talk about the bulletin that the BRP dealer completes as part of the steering recall, and subsequent repair attempts:
1) During the recall , BRP also uses updates the ECM with a different fuel mapping program. This remap makes the Spyder run leaner (however we aren't exactly sure what they tweaked or how they arrived at the final mapping). Thus the driveability issues mentioned above that some have encountered.
a) some have returned their Spyders to stock and the Spyder runs perfect.
b) some have been luck enough to have a juice box fuel programmer and have been able to dial enough fuel into the system to get their powerband back to an acceptable range
c) some just have had no luck and their Spyder runs really bad and has an engine light on.
d) The thought of a defective purge valve has been the focus of some technicians diagnosis , however , for 50 Spyders to enter the shop and 50 spyders to leave the shop with defective purge valves is a stretch even Las vegas wouldn't take bets on.
OK , here comes the theory:
You are BRP, you have seen numerous issues with the gas smells , and many warranty claims replacing the evap canister . Your internal testing shows that perhaps the purge valve (which purges the evap canister) is not operating at the correct time and duration based upon the drive-cycle and a reprogram of the ecm will fix this. By reprogramming this you can "fix" the gas smell and also you reflash the ecm to improve fuel metering across the rpm range to accomodate this change .
This brings us to the oops. My theory is somewhere in that reflash , the combination of retiming the purge valve to help with the evap gas smell and the remapping of the fuel delivery clashes with what the ideal fuel/air ratio is for the spyders with the high flow exhaust and intakes. Perhaps the valve has been reprogrammed (through a timing adjustment for the voltage flow to it from the ecm) to stay open longer , sucking the fumes into the manifold......... but if the canister isn't full of fumes we will be sucking CLEAN 100% pure AIR......(For those of you in RioLinda ,thats spells LEAN) The stock bikes are also running lean but don't flow enough air through the restricted exhaust to exploit this issue.
Which brings us to the fix
My gut says BRP will re-issue a ecm update and get this right. (perhaps a stock reflash and one to be used with the hindle (insert your favorite aftermarket parts here). In the meantime you will hear of more people plugging the hose to help their driveability issues.
standard disclaimers apply , I could be way off base here , but I don't think I am.
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