Proper Oil Level Verification Procedure on 1330-engined Spyders

[JayBros]

This 10 min. Idle is bull!! You just got through ridding several miles. What do you think those scavenging pumps were doing if not keeping the oil level correct?
By the time you stop and shut off the motor ,the oil is all where its supposed to be! Just check it!!

Then what you're saying if I understand you, is the engineers who designed the 1330 engine and have written the instructions on measuring the oil level are full of :cus:, correct?

 

[johnsimion]

Is This Normal?

After following the designated procedure to the best of my ability, I found either plenty of oil or almost no oil. I say this because after wiping my dipstick and reinserting it per the procedure, upon pulling it out, I found that it had oil on it up to the full line and yet there was very little of it from which to judge ... barely more than a film. No definitive line, just a tiny amount of oil all the way to the full line. I wiped it again and reinserted and had the same result a second time, so I'm thinking it must be okay. It's just scary because I've never seen so little oil on the dipstick when checking my car engines; usually it seems a lot more definitive than this. BTW my Spyder is almost new, about 700 miles. I was intending to take it in and have an early oil change anyway, but it just seems weird that there would be so little oil on the dipstick.

 

[JayBros]

After following the designated procedure to the best of my ability, I found either plenty of oil or almost no oil...

With just 700 miles on your Spyder the engine oil hasn't even had enough mileage on it for the oil to get dirty. Once you go through the first oil change at 3,000 miles, do it sooner if you like but it's not necessary, you'll see darker fluid on the dipstick. To verify do as others have suggested, lay the dipstick on a piece of clean paper towel and you'll get a very good reading of how much oil is in the engine.

 

[guzzihack]

Is it just me or does it seem idiotic for manufacturers to make the dipstick near the same color as the oil? It's irritating enough having to have a "procedure" to check the oil level without making it difficult to read on the stick. And while I'm whining, doesn't it make more sense to check the oil "before" you go on a ryde? If you're low on oil, you may do something detrimental to the motor before you find out it's low. Like after you just did an oil change and aren't sure if you added enough. It seems engineers could do better. Just thinking out loud. Coke

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

color and procedure

Is it just me or does it seem idiotic for manufacturers to make the dipstick near the same color as the oil? It's irritating enough having to have a "procedure" to check the oil level without making it difficult to read on the stick. And while I'm whining, doesn't it make more sense to check the oil "before" you go on a ryde? If you're low on oil, you may do something detrimental to the motor before you find out it's low. Like after you just did an oil change and aren't sure if you added enough. It seems engineers could do better. Just thinking out loud. Coke

My 998 dipstick was " ivory " ..... and if you check the level after a 10 min ride ( who goes for less time ??? ) it's going to be at Normal Operating Temp ........ Now you park it and wait 3 - 4 -10 days ...... WHAT do you think happens to the oil in the engine ???? - does it magically dis-appear ??? ..... No, it's exactly what it was when you checked it last .... I figured out over 9 years ago, the BRP method was seriously flawed TIMEWISE ...... BRP has to assume we are all to stupid or careless to remember when we last checked the level ....soooo after 100,000 miles of not wasting 10 min. and a lot of Gas , I figure about a week's worth of time & a lot of gas money .......... Mike :thumbup:

 

[bluep]

Oil level

My 998 dipstick was " ivory " ..... and if you check the level after a 10 min ride ( who goes for less time ??? ) it's going to be at Normal Operating Temp ........ Now you park it and wait 3 - 4 -10 days ...... WHAT do you think happens to the oil in the engine ???? - does it magically dis-appear ??? ..... No, it's exactly what it was when you checked it last .... I figured out over 9 years ago, the BRP method was seriously flawed TIMEWISE ...... BRP has to assume we are all to stupid or careless to remember when we last checked the level ....soooo after 100,000 miles of not wasting 10 min. and a lot of Gas , I figure about a week's worth of time & a lot of gas money .......... Mike :thumbup:

Right on!! These same engineers put the rear tire on my 2014 rt that was shot at 7300 mi. So l put a 215/60/15 Michelin , 95000 mi tire, which these engineers said NEVER do! Which is still on and has worked great at 87,000 mi now! You got to think a little on some of this stuff. Its the 10 min idle not right!!
Those scavenger pumps been doing there scavenging your whole ride, they don't need 10 min after you stop!!!

 

[jcthorne]

My 998 dipstick was " ivory " ..... and if you check the level after a 10 min ride ( who goes for less time ??? ) it's going to be at Normal Operating Temp ........ Now you park it and wait 3 - 4 -10 days ...... WHAT do you think happens to the oil in the engine ???? - does it magically dis-appear ??? ..... No, it's exactly what it was when you checked it last .... I figured out over 9 years ago, the BRP method was seriously flawed TIMEWISE ...... BRP has to assume we are all to stupid or careless to remember when we last checked the level ....soooo after 100,000 miles of not wasting 10 min. and a lot of Gas , I figure about a week's worth of time & a lot of gas money .......... Mike :thumbup:

Sorry but this actually does not work for a dry sump engine. The oil level in the tank where the dipstick is located, after a few days sitting. will be significantly lower than it was when you finished riding. Two things contribute to this, the temperature of the oil changes the volume of oil in the system, IE oil expands, and not by a small amount, as it heats from 50degF to 250degF. The second change in measured oil level is because oil slowly leaks back to the engine sump from the tank. This is much different than a wet sump engine like most automobiles where the oil simply drains back to the pan at the bottom of the engine. In a dry sump system, the oil tank is not the low point where the oil drains to over time.

All this aside, the BRP Spyder owners manuals used to have 2 procedures for checking oil, one cold and one hot and it cause lots of confusion. I can tell you that a Spyder (998 or 1330) that has proper oil level at operating temp will be just at the bottom of the dipstick when cold. Not an exact measure but its great for a go / no go for a ride.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Oil level

Sorry but this actually does not work for a dry sump engine. The oil level in the tank where the dipstick is located, after a few days sitting. will be significantly lower than it was when you finished riding. Two things contribute to this, the temperature of the oil changes the volume of oil in the system, IE oil expands, and not by a small amount, as it heats from 50degF to 250degF. The second change in measured oil level is because oil slowly leaks back to the engine sump from the tank. This is much different than a wet sump engine like most automobiles where the oil simply drains back to the pan at the bottom of the engine. In a dry sump system, the oil tank is not the low point where the oil drains to over time.

All this aside, the BRP Spyder owners manuals used to have 2 procedures for checking oil, one cold and one hot and it cause lots of confusion. I can tell you that a Spyder (998 or 1330) that has proper oil level at operating temp will be just at the bottom of the dipstick when cold. Not an exact measure but its great for a go / no go for a ride.

I'm also sorry ..... because you didn't understand what I said :dontknow::dontknow:............ I said I checked the oil level after a ride AT REQUIRED ENGINE TEMP ........ For my next ride ( whenever ) has that level changed ??? and if you believe it has - Please tell me where some of that Oil has disappeared to ...... Thanks .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

I'm also sorry ..... because you didn't understand what I said :dontknow::dontknow:............ I said I checked the oil level after a ride AT REQUIRED ENGINE TEMP ........ For my next ride ( whenever ) has that level changed ??? and if you believe it has - Please tell me where some of that Oil has disappeared to ...... Thanks .... Mike :thumbup:

I did indeed understand what you wrote differently. No, the oil has not gone anywhere and if its right when you finish a ride, unless its all over the floor, its still right for the next ride. Checking at the end of each ride is likely the best way as its fully at temp and oil is in the tank where it belongs.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OIL LEVEL

I did indeed understand what you wrote differently. No, the oil has not gone anywhere and if its right when you finish a ride, unless its all over the floor, its still right for the next ride. Checking at the end of each ride is likely the best way as its fully at temp and oil is in the tank where it belongs.

JC, if I re-typed EXACTLY what I typed the first time .....that wouldn't make sense .......... What I typed the second time meant Exactly what I typed the first time ......whatever :dontknow:......But I see we do agree about when to check the oil level ....... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Wildrice]

Has any 1330 engine ever died because of lack of oil?

Hi everyone,
There have been some questions on the right way for checking your oil on the 1330 engine. Below is the correct procedure:

Given the oil system design of the 1330 engine, oil level verification must be done under specific conditions which can influence the quantity of measurable oil in the engine.

These conditions are:

• Engine oil temperature must be between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F) which is considered as being the engine's normal operating temperature. Don't mistake coolant temperature for engine oil temperature! Coolant will heat up faster than the engine oil.
• Engine oil temperature is crucial since its volume changes based on temperature; that's enough to affect the measurable level.
• Engine must idle 10 minutes. The 1330 engine is a dry sump design with 3 scavenge pumps and 1 pressure pump, 10 minutes of idle time allows the scavenge pumps to stabilize the quantity of oil returned.

Complete oil level verification procedure:

1. Bring engine to operating temperature.
2. Ensure vehicle is on a level surface.
3. Allow engine to idle for 10 minutes.
4. Stop the engine.
5. Within 2 minutes of stopping the engine:
   1. Remove and wipe the dipstick clean.
   2. Insert dipstick and completely screw it in.
   3. Remove dipstick and read oil level on dipstick.
6. Adjust level as necessary without overfilling.

Tips and Tricks:

Here are 2 ways the crucial criteria can be reached:

• An engine started cold (20°C or 68°F) will take approximately 25 minutes to reach oil level verification criteria (oil temperature and idle time). Oil level can be reliably verified when the radiator fans have cycled ON twice,

or

• The unit can be taken on a 15 km (9 mile) drive (normal riding) or a 6 km (4 mile) drive in 1st gear at 50 km/h (30 mph) which is approx at 4400 rpm THEN idled until the radiator fans have cycled ON twice.

When performing an oil change on a cold engine, the above recommendations must be done to reach oil level verification criteria. When performing an oil change on a hot engine, the new oil will heat up faster since the engine is hot therefore letting the engine idle until 10 minutes or until the radiator fans have cycled ON twice indicates the oil level can be verified.
We thus recommend checking the oil level at the end of a decent ride following the complete oil level verification procedure as outlined above.
​

The 1330 usually uses minimal oil--I've never heard of a blown engine because of oil shortage--soo why have a 15 min oil level check procedure.. Using the procedure or just waiting less than 60 seconds after returning with a warm engine--both oil levels appeared identical. Same as any other other engine I've owned--dry sump or not.
Darrell

 

[Woodaddict]

shout to BRP engineers

WOULD there be any wireframe schematic of engine for us to look at to see how those scavenge pumps work, and whole oil system? BRP engineers??

 

[jcthorne]

JC, if I re-typed EXACTLY what I typed the first time .....that wouldn't make sense .......... What I typed the second time meant Exactly what I typed the first time ......whatever :dontknow:......But I see we do agree about when to check the oil level ....... Mike :thumbup:

Its not you Mike. I can be thick headed. Yes, I read it wrong the first time and got corrected. We do indeed agree, I just misunderstood.

 

[JayBros]

WOULD there be any wireframe schematic of engine for us to look at to see how those scavenge pumps work, and whole oil system? BRP engineers??

There is an extensive narrative description of how the oil pressure pump and three scavenge pumps work in the service manual. Unfortunately, at least for my slow brain, it means you first have to study the various engine diagrams to understand where the pumps are and how they are pumping oil where.

Interestingly, there is the warning note below that perhaps some dipstick checkers may be overlooking when checking the oil level. The note is preceded by step #3 that says the engine must be at normal operating temperature and run at idle for at least 30 seconds.

"NOTE: Running engine for at least 30 seconds allows the scavenge oil pumps to drain the oil from the engine back into the oil tank. Not carrying out this step could result in overfilling the engine." (my emphasis)

Elsewhere in the SL compendium of how and why the lubrication system works the way it does there has been a warning and some discussion about power loss due to overfilled engines. My personal, nonengineer opinion on why the procedure posted by BRPCare at the beginning of this thread is written the way it is, namely the 10 minute running time at idle, is because the pressure pump delivers pressurized oil to different locations of the engine at different volumes and the scavenge pumps return oil to the oil tank at different volumes so the 10 minute factor gives the whole lubrication system the time to equalize and return as much oil as possible to the oil tank on a consistent basis. For me the 10 minutes is a nonissue because while the Spyder sits idling in the garage for 10 min I'm getting out of and storing my ATGATT duds. Just my anal routine for caring for my investment.

 

[SkipH]

I went out to the garage and started the Can am and idled it for 5 minutes, turned off and pulled the dip stick, wiped it of and inserted it again - pulled it out and the dip stick read 3/4th to 7/8ths, good enough check for me.....

 

[Mikey]

I went out to the garage and started the Can am and idled it for 5 minutes, turned off and pulled the dip stick, wiped it of and inserted it again - pulled it out and the dip stick read 3/4th to 7/8ths, good enough check for me.....

opcorn: . ldpost: Good, but old!!!