1330 Performance Upgrades

[blacklightning]

Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

I think that is the problem with them expanding their customer base. . There are a few older people who want more power (like me). And more power would attract a larger costumer base. . They had a 140 hp vtwin that Erik Buell used in his bike, bring it back in a modified RS platform and young people will come. Make a more powerful 1330, and they will stay.

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

I don't understand the de-tuned engines either. I'm sure both the 998 and the 1330 are capable of more power from the factory but BRP chooses not to use it. A person would think the 1330 would have much better performance than the 998 but in reality they are about the same although I think the 1330 has longer legs on the top end. Maybe BRP feels the design (drive train, electronics, etc) isn't capable of the increase in power?

All I know is I ride with my neighbor a lot who has a 1600 (6 cylinder) BMW sport touring bike. It has about 150hp and weighs about the same as the Spyder (within 60lbs). When we start running continuous speeds down the interstates of 90-105 the Spyder starts to struggle to keep up. I'm there with him but if he decided to go faster for a length of time (passing lots of cars, etc) I'd be playing catch up. So, I know most of you here are going to say...."you shouldn't be going that fast". That's not the point, we could argue that topic forever. The point is BMW's goal is to put a bike on the road that offers a certain level of performance to the rider and riders are expecting a certain level of performance when they buy that bike.

If you never drive above 75 then the 1600 BMW will meet your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 100 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 125 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level better than the lower performance BMW bikes

BRP isn't meeting a performance level for a variety of rider types. They offer 2 bikes, the RT and F3. Yes the F3 comes in different configurations but that revolves around storage and comfort features not performance. Both bikes (the RT and the F3) offer the same 1330 and the same 6 speed tranny. The RT offers a different seating position than the F3. Both bikes have about the same performance (speed, power, handling). Sure you might be able to feel like you can ride an F3 faster than an RT or vice versa but bottom line is both bikes offer about the same level of performance.

This is where BRP misses the boat I think. Different riders want/require different performance levels to satisfy their riding style. BRP tries to offer a one size fits all package that just doesn't excite some riders. Until they offer different levels of performance they are not really going to increase their market share and the same type of riders will continue to own Spyder's which means the brand will continue to be "defined" a certain way.

What's also odd is....in the snowmobile, ATV and Sea-Doo biz BRP does offer different levels of performance and tries to appeal to many different types of riders. I just don't understand why that doesn't carry over into the Spyder line?

 

[Navydad]

Lack of power is not what is keeping younger folks away from HD's, Spyders, Wings, or any other large bikes. It is the price. My son is an avid motorcyclist and rides every chance he gets. He rides a Honda 1100 Shadow which is a great bike and he has been cross country twice on it. With a family, mortgage, car payments, etc. he just doesn't have $20,000 or more to plop down on a new bike. Anyway, back to the original idea of this post. When I ride my Spyder it is two up 95% of the time and fully loaded when on a trip. My solo rides and trips are done on two wheels. I would like the extra power that my Spyder may be capable of. One other thing I didn't see mentioned was the dreaded emissions rules that govern what can be on the highways. Since our Spyders are a road going vehicle they must be tuned to pass these regulations. Are the off highway vehicles tuned to meet these regs or are they allowed to "run free" so to speak.

 

[Poseidon]

Lack of power is not what is keeping younger folks away from HD's, Spyders, Wings, or any other large bikes. It is the price. My son is an avid motorcyclist and rides every chance he gets. He rides a Honda 1100 Shadow which is a great bike and he has been cross country twice on it. With a family, mortgage, car payments, etc. he just doesn't have $20,000 or more to plop down on a new bike. Anyway, back to the original idea of this post. When I ride my Spyder it is two up 95% of the time and fully loaded when on a trip. My solo rides and trips are done on two wheels. I would like the extra power that my Spyder may be capable of. One other thing I didn't see mentioned was the dreaded emissions rules that govern what can be on the highways. Since our Spyders are a road going vehicle they must be tuned to pass these regulations. Are the off highway vehicles tuned to meet these regs or are they allowed to "run free" so to speak.

Off road vehicles have restrictions for the manufacturer from the federal government. That is the reason why they run so lean and hot from the factory. Almost everyone adds some form of fuel adder or tuner to them after they buy them. Most will use a dobeck "blinks box" fuel programmer to richen the mix and cool down the normal operating temps some. Others will run PCIII or PCV. Some are flashing the ECU. There is no emissions testing after purchase in the US that I am aware of in any state, but I could be wrong.

 

[Poseidon]

I don't understand the de-tuned engines either. I'm sure both the 998 and the 1330 are capable of more power from the factory but BRP chooses not to use it. A person would think the 1330 would have much better performance than the 998 but in reality they are about the same although I think the 1330 has longer legs on the top end. Maybe BRP feels the design (drive train, electronics, etc) isn't capable of the increase in power?

All I know is I ride with my neighbor a lot who has a 1600 (6 cylinder) BMW sport touring bike. It has about 150hp and weighs about the same as the Spyder (within 60lbs). When we start running continuous speeds down the interstates of 90-105 the Spyder starts to struggle to keep up. I'm there with him but if he decided to go faster for a length of time (passing lots of cars, etc) I'd be playing catch up. So, I know most of you here are going to say...."you shouldn't be going that fast". That's not the point, we could argue that topic forever. The point is BMW's goal is to put a bike on the road that offers a certain level of performance to the rider and riders are expecting a certain level of performance when they buy that bike.

If you never drive above 75 then the 1600 BMW will meet your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 100 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 125 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level better than the lower performance BMW bikes

BRP isn't meeting a performance level for a variety of rider types. They offer 2 bikes, the RT and F3. Yes the F3 comes in different configurations but that revolves around storage and comfort features not performance. Both bikes (the RT and the F3) offer the same 1330 and the same 6 speed tranny. The RT offers a different seating position than the F3. Both bikes have about the same performance (speed, power, handling). Sure you might be able to feel like you can ride an F3 faster than an RT or vice versa but bottom line is both bikes offer about the same level of performance.

This is where BRP misses the boat I think. Different riders want/require different performance levels to satisfy their riding style. BRP tries to offer a one size fits all package that just doesn't excite some riders. Until they offer different levels of performance they are not really going to increase their market share and the same type of riders will continue to own Spyder's which means the brand will continue to be "defined" a certain way.

What's also odd is....in the snowmobile, ATV and Sea-Doo biz BRP does offer different levels of performance and tries to appeal to many different types of riders. I just don't understand why that doesn't carry over into the Spyder line?

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested.

Even if younger generations couldn't afford it, they would wait until the used priced dropped enough that they could afford it, just like they do, he'll...we all probably did, with sports cars and muscle cars. Show me a 20 year old that wouldn't love to have a Hellcat, or a ZL1 Camero, a Z06 Corvette, or a Shelby or Rouch Mustang. They can't afford them, but you better believe they will be picking up used ones when they get into their price range. When they do finally get one they will tell everyone how they have wanted one for years and finally got it! That is what the motorcycle manufacturers are missing and don't seem to understand. You get customers based on the products you produce that everyone wants, even if they can't afford it. Instead of producing something that people think... I get one of those when I can't ride a 2 wheeler any more, or because my significant other thinks they are safer.

It needs to be something they want because cause they are a f_cking blast to ride. That would be the case with better performance and handling, even if it is only on one model.

 

[HayRog]

I'm liking all the input so far.
I'm not at all well versed in the various intricacies of power upgrades - I only know I'd love more power, if only for the safety factor.
I'm looking at the ECU flash - just have to prod myself a little more

Should NOT have sold the FJR1300 :gaah:

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested.

Even if younger generations couldn't afford it, they would wait until the used priced dropped enough that they could afford it, just like they do, he'll...we all probably did, with sports cars and muscle cars. Show me a 20 year old that wouldn't love to have a Hellcat, or a ZL1 Camero, a Z06 Corvette, or a Shelby or Rouch Mustang. They can't afford them, but you better believe they will be picking up used ones when they get into their price range. When they do finally get one they will tell everyone how they have wanted one for years and finally got it! That is what the motorcycle manufacturers are missing and don't seem to understand. You get customers based on the products you produce that everyone wants, even if they can't afford it. Instead of producing something that people think... I get one of those when I can't ride a 2 wheeler any more, or because my significant other thinks they are safer.

It needs to be something they want because cause they are a f_cking blast to ride. That would be the case with better performance and handling, even if it is only on one model.

NOPE.......you nailed it Could not agree more.

 

[Wildrice]

Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

Don't include me in that group--at the tender age of 73---- I just sold my 344 rwhp 212# torque on my 530 lb turbo Hayabusa. Vertigo issues in parking lots but 3 wheels take care of that problem.
I've blown engines on 2 Busa's & 1 Harley. 2 were my fault--didn't back out top end timing--the Harley died on it's own at 50 mph. Building a balanced reliable engine---$3500-$4000 +. Fun isn't cheap but its worth it to me --probably 5% to 10% of Spyder owners. Some have spent more on Farkle.
Darrell

 

[Wildrice]

Lack of power is not what is keeping younger folks away from HD's, Spyders, Wings, or any other large bikes. It is the price. My son is an avid motorcyclist and rides every chance he gets. He rides a Honda 1100 Shadow which is a great bike and he has been cross country twice on it. With a family, mortgage, car payments, etc. he just doesn't have $20,000 or more to plop down on a new bike. Anyway, back to the original idea of this post. When I ride my Spyder it is two up 95% of the time and fully loaded when on a trip. My solo rides and trips are done on two wheels. I would like the extra power that my Spyder may be capable of. One other thing I didn't see mentioned was the dreaded emissions rules that govern what can be on the highways. Since our Spyders are a road going vehicle they must be tuned to pass these regulations. Are the off highway vehicles tuned to meet these regs or are they allowed to "run free" so to speak.

The emission control standards only apply to a few States like Calif.

 

[Easy Rider]

The emission control standards only apply to a few States like Calif.

Absolutely wrong.

There are Federal standards but states can have tighter regs if they wish.

 

[MSa1956]

Who are the Aftermarket Companies, like the ECU Flash, or exhaust systems, fuel control measuring. Where can one find such adapt abilities to any can am, I carry precious cargo on my Bike and it's my Beautiful wife. :riding:

Mike:yes:

 

[TRLBLZR1]

Price & Performance: Put the two together and that's exactly why you don't see the younger generation riding them. @ 20K+, people expect more performance. Wouldn't take much more either... 10, maybe 15 percent and a lot more of us "young people" lol would be satisfied and more willing to extend ourselves financially IMO. ~ They unlocked the nanny in my 2017 D500-F3 (se), but being an automatic it doesn't have "quite enough" power/low end torque to make much of a difference. With good tires, it sticks to the road so well you can't predictably get the rear tire to slip, not even when starting on a corner let alone a straight line. (Almost makes it more dangerous for an experienced rider who is expecting to counter-steer but instead the inside tire just comes up.) Just that little extra power would resolve this.

I've left mine stock, but contemplate sending out the ECM for tuning. I still don't understand why it's not possible to just get different gearing with a custom rear drive sprocket. Seems to me the anti-traction relies on rim rotation speed. And just this mod could/would make enough of a performance difference that I'd be satisfied. (I personally could care less if the machine topped out at 120 or 100. I'm not looking for top speed, just "fun factor" down low. ~ And I rarely use 6'th gear anyways.)

 

[aklim]

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested. .

I tried telling my wife that it was a safety thing to build my vette to 420 RWHP and she just asked if I also thought that loud pipes saves lives. If I thought I could pull it off, there'd be a supercharger on the vette already, for safety reasons, only. With all the road rage and shooting going on, might be good if I can get out of the way fast. I don't think she buys it either.

Bottom line, I want the wicked acceleration because it's fun

 

[aklim]

Anyone know how they tune it if you don't have a dyno for 3 wheels? I suppose you would have to disable the ABS, wouldn't you?

 

[fatboy]

performance

i believe revolution performance is working on performance up grades for the 1330 there out of wi.

 

[Poseidon]

I tried telling my wife that it was a safety thing to build my vette to 420 RWHP and she just asked if I also thought that loud pipes saves lives. If I thought I could pull it off, there'd be a supercharger on the vette already, for safety reasons, only. With all the road rage and shooting going on, might be good if I can get out of the way fast. I don't think she buys it either.

Bottom line, I want the wicked acceleration because it's fun

I think you shot yourself in the foot at some point. Either you, or possibly someone else, has taught her way too much about mechanics and performance! Hahaha!

 

[johnsimion]

Lack of power is not what is keeping younger folks away from HD's, Spyders, Wings, or any other large bikes. It is the price.

I agree, but there are other factors as well. I'm a lifetime car and bike guy with two sons, 30 and 24. In spite of my example, neither they nor any of their friends care a fig about cars OR motorcycles. Go to a car or bike show some time and you'll see what I mean -- most everybody there is at least mid-40s. Give the younger crowd a cell phone and a computer or XBox and their "social media" and they're perfectly happy. To the extent they care about cars, it's just for basic transportation, and there's no comparison between cars and motorcycles if that's all you care about ... think snow, rain, hot, cold, etc. Motorcycles aren't even cheap to ride; insurance is very expensive for the young, for obvious reasons. The main reason anyone rides a bike or Spyder is for fun. To the extent the young can be torn away from their smart phones to actually enjoy a bike, they're going to go for a sportbike -- which can be had for $8000 or less brand new. Even if the Spyder could compete on price, the sportbikes have performance that no Spyder would ever be able to match.

 

[TRLBLZR1]

I agree, but there are other factors as well. I'm a lifetime car and bike guy with two sons, 30 and 24. In spite of my example, neither they nor any of their friends care a fig about cars OR motorcycles. Go to a car or bike show some time and you'll see what I mean -- most everybody there is at least mid-40s. Give the younger crowd a cell phone and a computer or XBox and their "social media" and they're perfectly happy. To the extent they care about cars, it's just for basic transportation, and there's no comparison between cars and motorcycles if that's all you care about ... think snow, rain, hot, cold, etc. Motorcycles aren't even cheap to ride; insurance is very expensive for the young, for obvious reasons. The main reason anyone rides a bike or Spyder is for fun. To the extent the young can be torn away from their smart phones to actually enjoy a bike, they're going to go for a sportbike -- which can be had for $8000 or less brand new. Even if the Spyder could compete on price, the sportbikes have performance that no Spyder would ever be able to match.

Excellent post & 100% spot on IMO. (Still, just a little more "off the line" torque would be sooooo nice! Would justify being able to disable the traction control in an SE.)

 

[Wildrice]

Absolutely wrong.

There are Federal standards but states can have tighter regs if they wish.

What was I thinking??? The Federal Government has a spec for everything ever very sold:gaah:

The Federal Standards must be really loose. I lived in Calif for 20+ yrs--they are strict. I've been in Ohio for 18 yrs. The exhaust noise--engine modifications--I've never seen or heard of them being challenged by the police depts or highway patrol & we have some really radical engine vehicles driven on the street & freeways from home to the drag strip. My turbo hayabusa could rattle windows.
Darrell

 

[UtahPete]

Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

I like to think our priorities have changed when we bought Spyders. Too old .... sheesh I hope not.