Air Box Oil anyone tried this?

[Lamonster]

If the foam is a true BRP fix then BRP needs to put out a service bulletin about it and supply the foam that is to be used to it's dealers or owners.

I can just see someone sucking the wrong foam into their throttle body and then saying "I read on a message board that this is what BRP told us to do". I'm pretty sure any warranty repair will be shot down in a hurry if this is the case.

 

[ataDude]

If the foam is a true BRP fix then BRP needs to put out a service bulletin about it and supply the foam that is to be used to it's dealers or owners.

I can just see someone sucking the wrong foam into their throttle body and then saying "I read on a message board that this is what BRP told us to do". I'm pretty sure any warranty repair will be shot down in a hurry if this is the case.

Or... using too dense a foam, having it clog up and preventing the crankcase from "breathing".

 

[BajaRon]

What's to stop you from connecting the "out" side of the catch can to the air box instead of venting to atmosphere? This would be a legal solution to #1 thru #3.

That would work but, in my opinion. a waste of time. The amount of vapors excaping are not worth the effort. It's a universal requirement by EPA because over the life of the engine some can get pretty bad.

Just my opinion here.

 

[BajaRon]

I do this and located my catch can low using about two feet of hose from the crankcase down to the catch can - "attaches" to the oil resevoir - and then back up to the air box. I actually thought to mount it there for ease of observation with just one panel removal (no screws).

2009 SM5. Recently added Evoluzione's high flow air filter and no oil in the air box.

My gut feeling is I may accumulate more oil in the catch can then other configurations, but so far so good.

Sorry - no pics.

Pete

I think this is really the better answer to BJT's question/concern.

If you do the catch can correctly you would probbaly eliminate the oil in the air box issue even if you re-connected the hose to the air box. But with the negative pressure created by the proximity and orientation of the crank case vent inside the air box you may encourage more oil to travel up to your catch can.

 

[gazey]

What's to stop you from connecting the "out" side of the catch can to the air box instead of venting to atmosphere? This would be a legal solution to #1 thru #3.

Great minds think alike, but yours obviously thinks faster :joke:

 

[burg650]

Here is an idea get a piece of window screen material and put it over the hole so the foam will not get sucked in.

 

[NancysToy]

Most folks that insert the foam remove the hose, insert the foam, then reattach the hose. The nipple on the airbox helps hold the foam in place, so it is difficult to get sucked out of the hose if the foam is firm and there isn't a tremendous amount of suction (which there should never be if your air intake or air filter aren't plugged). One foam that has been used is Unifilter BF-1 bulk foam. These are not recommendations, I'm just relating what has been done previously.

 

[bjt]

One foam that has been used is Unifilter BF-1 bulk foam. These are not recommendations, I'm just relating what has been done previously.

Do you have a recommendation? After reading a couple of different threads about "oil in the airbox" fixes, I'm torn between which one to do.

 

[BajaRon]

Most folks that insert the foam remove the hose, insert the foam, then reattach the hose. The nipple on the airbox helps hold the foam in place, so it is difficult to get sucked out of the hose if the foam is firm and ther isn't a tremendous amount of suction (which here should never be if your air intake or air filter aren't plugged). One foam that has been used is Unifilter BF-1 bulk foam. These are not recommendations, I'm just relating what has been done previously.

Exactly... though the vent tower is right next to the intake there still is not going to be a huge amount of vacuum unless your air filter gets very clogged. Not likely.

 

[BajaRon]

Do you have a recommendation? After reading a couple of different threads about "oil in the airbox" fixes, I'm torn between which one to do.

If I had it to do over again (and I probably will) I would go with the foam done correctly.

Lamont's catch can is a great idea and works very well. It certainly takes care of the oil in the airbox issue. But all of my concerns about the foam solution have been resloved and I kind of like the simple approach. Putting the correct foam in the hose is the key.

When Lamont and I were discussing it our thought was to stuff the foam into the vent tower. I still don't like that idea. But putting it in the vent hose makes a lot of sense.

It gives the oil a better option to drain back into the crank case while at the same time resolving the "Sucked into the throttle bodies" issue.

I am convinced that the foam will not clog up, as some have suggested. When used as an oil soaked air filter the foam does clog up but that is with dirt which is not going to happen here.

And if the correct foam is used it will not deteriorate, as others have supposed.

I am going to try a little twist on the foam solution which I'm surprised I didn't thinik of sooner. Lamont and I hit on part of it with his 1st attempt. He probably still has the parts laying around in his substantal "This Didn't Work" graveyard.

Hopefully, this will combine the best of all the previous ideas.

 

[widowmaker2011]

Just can't help myself........more on the subject......

The airbox is merely a plenum, and while it has airflow, it should see negligible 'suction'. Negative pressure is on the downstream side of the throttle bodies. Chances of a well fitting foam filter in the breather tube getting 'sucked out' are slim....The catch can is a good idea, as it eliminates that possibility.

It's been my experience on dry sump v-twins, that excessive oil in the case breather is caused by too much oil in the bottom end of the crankcase. When the crankshaft is turning, and splashing through excessive oil, more oil particles are thrown into suspension, and are forced out of the breather. Sometimes the pressure side of the oil pump is more efficient than the scavenge side, and excess oil ends up in the cases. (Usually most evident on extended higher rpm runs). These 'fixes' are treating the symptoms, but not addressing the cause. I've found through the years, that only filling the oil reservoir to the halfway mark on the dipstick, keeps the breather oil mess to a minimum. Been running Kim's Spyder this way for a year now, and have only traces of oil in the airbox.....:doorag:

HDXBONES hit it square in the nuts about dry sump motors, My Buell was no different. On my Spyder , after getting oil in my airbox in the first 900 miles , I noted this too. I have kept Carols and my spyder at the midway point on the dipstick and in a combined 9000 miles of riding have had zero oil in the box with NO oil breather mods. I ride the crap out of mine and she is less throttle happy so both machines see different engine use and the result is identical. No oil since dropping the level to just midway. Oil use is minimal too. If I were to do anything , I'd use the foam fix , using a foam that is meant for oil use , there tons of it out there. hyea:

 

[Smylinacha]

Just can't help myself........more on the subject......

The airbox is merely a plenum, and while it has airflow, it should see negligible 'suction'. Negative pressure is on the downstream side of the throttle bodies. Chances of a well fitting foam filter in the breather tube getting 'sucked out' are slim....The catch can is a good idea, as it eliminates that possibility.

It's been my experience on dry sump v-twins, that excessive oil in the case breather is caused by too much oil in the bottom end of the crankcase. When the crankshaft is turning, and splashing through excessive oil, more oil particles are thrown into suspension, and are forced out of the breather. Sometimes the pressure side of the oil pump is more efficient than the scavenge side, and excess oil ends up in the cases. (Usually most evident on extended higher rpm runs). These 'fixes' are treating the symptoms, but not addressing the cause. I've found through the years, that only filling the oil reservoir to the halfway mark on the dipstick, keeps the breather oil mess to a minimum. Been running Kim's Spyder this way for a year now, and have only traces of oil in the airbox.....:doorag:

Those big puddles in there were "traces"? Yuck!

 

[ataDude]

Guess I need to amend that statement! For a year, there were only traces, in the last couple of months it became substantial oil in the airbox......Been wondering what changed:dontknow:

Probably Kim's riding style. The more familiar you become, the faster you go. I've noticed that most of my blow-by only comes after some very brisk, extended riding.
.

 

[dvmdf]

Did anybody have it fixed at a dealer? Seems like that would be the safest way to go for the warranty and stuff.. mine is in for it right now, will see what they say tomorrow.

2008 SE5 2200 miles

 

[BajaRon]

Did anybody have it fixed at a dealer? Seems like that would be the safest way to go for the warranty and stuff.. mine is in for it right now, will see what they say tomorrow.

2008 SE5 2200 miles

I am always amazed at how worried people are about losing their warranty with everything from using someone elses engine oil to something like this vent tube mod.

This is a tribute to dealership marketing (misinformation) and the fact that this is usually the first thing they hit you with when you come in for warranty work and you've changed anything on the bike.

I guess many take the dealerships word for it and never challange them on it. I don't know. But it has worked for years and still seems to work with many. It sells a lot of oil and other OEM stuff for them.

I got hit with "Warranty" issue when my power steering didn't work. They took panels off and saw the electronic cruise control I had installed and said, "This may void your warranty".

Well, no way is that going to void anything if installed correctly (which it was) and functioning properly (which it was).

I have never put the manufacturer's oil in anything (because none of them make oil products anyway. They just slap their label on a can of Pennsoil or Castrol and charge twice the price for it). You can get much better oil (which is good for your bike) for less money (which is good for your wallet). The only down side here is for the dealer. Oh well!

There are things you can do to void a warranty like installing a blower, turbo or nitrous. And, admittedly, lesser items may also void the warranty if done badly.

But reasonable add ons or mods correctly installed, like this vent hose, are not going to give you grief with the warranty.

 

[spyderinkc]

Is the oil in the airbox a common problem among all Spyders? I had this problem at first with my M109r. I then put it slightly less oil on my next oil change and never experienced this problem again. I think the explanation about too much oil in the crackcase seems the most valid to me. Has anyone else tried to reduce the amount of oil in their crackcase before trying the other two mods first? If so, what were the results. Again, I'm new to this forum and to this bike so I'm still learning. Thanks!

 

[NancysToy]

Is the oil in the airbox a common problem among all Spyders? I had this problem at first with my M109r. I then put it slightly less oil on my next oil change and never experienced this problem again. I think the explanation about too much oil in the crackcase seems the most valid to me. Has anyone else tried to reduce the amount of oil in their crackcase before trying the other two mods first? If so, what were the results. Again, I'm new to this forum and to this bike so I'm still learning. Thanks!

Oil in the airbox has been a common issue. Lessened somewhat by lowering the oil level, but this is a dry sump system, so it is not the normal "too much in the crankcase" type of problem. Much previous discussion if you do a search. welcome

 

[bjt]

If I had it to do over again (and I probably will) I would go with the foam done correctly.

Lamont's catch can is a great idea and works very well. It certainly takes care of the oil in the airbox issue. But all of my concerns about the foam solution have been resloved and I kind of like the simple approach. Putting the correct foam in the hose is the key.

When Lamont and I were discussing it our thought was to stuff the foam into the vent tower. I still don't like that idea. But putting it in the vent hose makes a lot of sense.

It gives the oil a better option to drain back into the crank case while at the same time resolving the "Sucked into the throttle bodies" issue.

I am convinced that the foam will not clog up, as some have suggested. When used as an oil soaked air filter the foam does clog up but that is with dirt which is not going to happen here.

And if the correct foam is used it will not deteriorate, as others have supposed.

I am going to try a little twist on the foam solution which I'm surprised I didn't thinik of sooner. Lamont and I hit on part of it with his 1st attempt. He probably still has the parts laying around in his substantal "This Didn't Work" graveyard.

Hopefully, this will combine the best of all the previous ideas.

Have you done this "little twist" yet and, if so, how is it working out? I was at the dealership the other day and saw a nice little fuel filter with one of those bronze stones in it. If it was designed for a larger diameter hose, I would have bought that to stick inline of the crankcase vent hose. Otherwise, I am still thinking about what foam to shove into the hose.

 

[Rider Steve]

Just a bump.

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

Warranty

I am always amazed at how worried people are about losing their warranty with everything from using someone elses engine oil to something like this vent tube mod.

This is a tribute to dealership marketing (misinformation) and the fact that this is usually the first thing they hit you with when you come in for warranty work and you've changed anything on the bike.

I guess many take the dealerships word for it and never challange them on it. I don't know. But it has worked for years and still seems to work with many. It sells a lot of oil and other OEM stuff for them.

I got hit with "Warranty" issue when my power steering didn't work. They took panels off and saw the electronic cruise control I had installed and said, "This may void your warranty".

Well, no way is that going to void anything if installed correctly (which it was) and functioning properly (which it was).

I have never put the manufacturer's oil in anything (because none of them make oil products anyway. They just slap their label on a can of Pennsoil or Castrol and charge twice the price for it). You can get much better oil (which is good for your bike) for less money (which is good for your wallet). The only down side here is for the dealer. Oh well!

There are things you can do to void a warranty like installing a blower, turbo or nitrous. And, admittedly, lesser items may also void the warranty if done badly.

But reasonable add ons or mods correctly installed, like this vent hose, are not going to give you grief with the warranty.

:agree:TOTALLY