New Hitch

[fjray]

Got the 15rtl on the lift to fabricate a proper trailer hitch. The owners manual shows how to get most of the plastic out of the way but doesn't show how to get the rear plastic out of the way. Any pictures or directions would be greatly appreciated.
I'm tired of the wheel mounted hitch beating the crap out of my Bushtec and breaking bottles in the cooler so I'm going to build a frame mounted hitch. The people at Bushtec keep saying they are going to do it but I don't want to wait another season so I'm off to uncharted territory. I'll try to remember pictures so If someone else does it there will be some ideas. Thanks in advance for ideas or useful comments.

 

[H2O]

Contact IdahoMtnSpyder, I believe he had the whole rear assembly off his last winter.

H2O

 

[retired1]

If you plan on manufacturing and distributing your hitch, it might not hurt to see if you can talk to someone at Bushtec orCorbin. Back in the day, they both manufactured frame type hitches for the GS.

 

[fastfraser]

Google how to install A CB on a Spyder you will find a couple of videos that show you how to remove the rear . 4 bolts under the seat and one bolt on each side unplug three or four plugs and it comes off as one unit .

 

[Chupaca]

Here's the thing....

As I always recommend...if your going to go into these machines you need a good shop manual . It will show you all you need to know and make it easier to see things before hand. Would be nice to see one...have often watched how that swingarm ball bounces around when following along...:thumbup:

 

[fjray]

As I always recommend...if your going to go into these machines you need a good shop manual . It will show you all you need to know and make it easier to see things before hand. Would be nice to see one...have often watched how that swingarm ball bounces around when following along...:thumbup:

Good advice. I'm going to download the manual before I get started this morning. The trailer take a hell of a beating with the existing hitch. I had to make some emergency repairs on the road last season.

 

[fjray]

With the manual it's quite easy to get the back plastic off as it's all one piece. After removing all the side panels six bolts and a few wire connections and it lifts right off. The other good news is that there are a couple unused threaded holes at the back of the frame that make a good attachment point for the upper mounts for the hitch. If I knew where they were in advance the rear assy. would not have to come off. Time to fab up an upper mount and put the rear back together so I can see how much room I have for the rest of it.

 

[Bob Denman]

The best of luck to you! :thumbup:
We're waiting to hear what happens next... opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[Roadster Renovations]

With the manual it's quite easy to get the back plastic off as it's all one piece. After removing all the side panels six bolts and a few wire connections and it lifts right off. The other good news is that there are a couple unused threaded holes at the back of the frame that make a good attachment point for the upper mounts for the hitch. If I knew where they were in advance the rear assy. would not have to come off. Time to fab up an upper mount and put the rear back together so I can see how much room I have for the rest of it.

As someone that has a little experience in fabricating, not sure if you have figured on the swing arm travel. It is pretty substantial in relationship to the frame (about 5-7 inches). That is one of the reasons most manufacturers use the swing arm to attach to. Not sure if there are enough hardened points under the tupperware to hold that the way you want it to.

The tongue on the trailer is going to move up and down with the suspension. Not sure how well that will tow, but cagers do that all the time. You may be on to something there. Will be interesting to see how it turns out/how well it works.

Best of luck!!

 

[fjray]

The Spyder is the only one that uses the swing arm. The rest use a frame mount like any car or truck. That way the trailer tongue is isolated from road shock and it takes the added unsprung weight off the shock.

As far as the suspension travel I plan on keeping it wide enough to clear the swing arm. Still a fair bit of backyard engineering to do but finding a good hard point for the vertical mount was a key to success. Waiting for paint to dry while I go plow more snow.

 

[Chris Stroud]

Following this close. Really want to see what you come up with. Was hoping to put hitch on real soon but really like the idea you have come up with ...

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

FRAME HITCH ... VS. SWING ARM HITCH

As someone that has a little experience in fabricating, not sure if you have figured on the swing arm travel. It is pretty substantial in relationship to the frame (about 5-7 inches). That is one of the reasons most manufacturers use the swing arm to attach to. Not sure if there are enough hardened points under the tupperware to hold that the way you want it to.

The tongue on the trailer is going to move up and down with the suspension. Not sure how well that will tow, but cagers do that all the time. You may be on to something there. Will be interesting to see how it turns out/how well it works.

Best of luck!!

:agree: ..... I loooooove DIY'ers ..... and not to throw water on this :banghead::banghead::banghead: ..... But you do realize that any EXCESSIVE movement of the trailer tongue ( up & down ) means the rear wheel must be LEAVING THE GROUND :yikes: in order for this to occur. Because the rear wheel is attached to the swing arm !!!!! ..... and when you think about it the rear of the Spyder is what goes up and down on the rear suspension. The Spyder is not a Moto-cross bike ...... if you are riding around with the rear tire bouncing on the pavement .... imho something is wrong .....Mike :thumbup:

 

[fjray]

:agree: ..... I loooooove DIY'ers ..... and not to throw water on this :banghead::banghead::banghead: ..... But you do realize that any EXCESSIVE movement of the trailer tongue ( up & down ) means the rear wheel must be LEAVING THE GROUND :yikes: in order for this to occur. Because the rear wheel is attached to the swing arm !!!!! ..... and when you think about it the rear of the Spyder is what goes up and down on the rear suspension. The Spyder is not a Moto-cross bike ...... if you are riding around with the rear tire bouncing on the pavement .... imho something is wrong .....Mike :thumbup:

The wheel does not need to leave the ground to transmit shock into the trailer and I am aware that the wheel is attached to the swing arm. It's a well known fact that reducing unsprung weight improves handling and make life easier on suspension components. If the rear shock doesn't have to keep an extra 50 pounds under control it can do it's job better and last longer The purpose of the suspension is to isolate the vehicle from road shock for safety and comfort therefor making life easier on the trailer and contents. If this were not the case then cars and trucks would have the trailer hitch bolted to the rear wheel like a Spyder. Haven't seen that to be the case and they have been towing trailers far longer than the Spyder. IMHO.
Not really trying to reinvent the wheel but I have been in the repair and fabrication business for 50+ years and have a reasonable idea how all this stuff is supposed to work. Thanks for the input.:thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

I also appreciate your ingenuity... :clap: :firstplace:
But the fact that cars and trucks don't attach trailers to their wheels, is because it's just so much easier to find a better way to do it. :thumbup:
With the Spyder: not so much. :shocked:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

FRAME VS SWINGARM

The wheel does not need to leave the ground to transmit shock into the trailer and I am aware that the wheel is attached to the swing arm. It's a well known fact that reducing unsprung weight improves handling and make life easier on suspension components. If the rear shock doesn't have to keep an extra 50 pounds under control it can do it's job better and last longer The purpose of the suspension is to isolate the vehicle from road shock for safety and comfort therefor making life easier on the trailer and contents. If this were not the case then cars and trucks would have the trailer hitch bolted to the rear wheel like a Spyder. Haven't seen that to be the case and they have been towing trailers far longer than the Spyder. IMHO.
Not really trying to reinvent the wheel but I have been in the repair and fabrication business for 50+ years and have a reasonable idea how all this stuff is supposed to work. Thanks for the input.:thumbup:

Maybe I can explain my thinking better this way ....... If you get on your Spyder, the seat moves down - yes ..... if a passenger gets on it moves down some more - yes ....... the seat is attached to the frame - yes ..... if you make a Hitch that attaches to the Frame - every time the seat with driver and passenger(?) goes up and down .....the Hitch is going to go up and down ( which is also going to cause activity in the rear spring and shock )- - even if the rear wheel ISN'T .............Conversely , if you attach a trailer to a swing arm mounted Hitch and step on the trailer Tongue Arm - - nothing happens, except very, very slight compression of the tires ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[fjray]

Maybe I can explain my thinking better this way ....... If you get on your Spyder, the seat moves down - yes ..... if a passenger gets on it moves down some more - yes ....... the seat is attached to the frame - yes ..... if you make a Hitch that attaches to the Frame - every time the seat with driver and passenger(?) goes up and down .....the Hitch is going to go up and down ( which is also going to cause activity in the rear spring and shock )- - even if the rear wheel ISN'T .............Conversely , if you attach a trailer to a swing arm mounted Hitch and step on the trailer Tongue Arm - - nothing happens, except very, very slight compression of the tires ...... Mike :thumbup:

Your thinking is right on the money so look at it this way. When you watch a video of a vehicle going over the rough section of a test track designed to test suspension. The wheels are going up and down like crazy although not leaving the ground but the vehicle has very little motion. Which one would you like your nut sack attached to??? I would prefer to not be attached to the wheel.:shocked: On the spyder the sidewall flex alone on sharp bumps puts a lot of motion into the trailer tongue. Follow a Spyder with a hitch sometime and watch the hitch closely, there is a lot of motion that the rider never feels because the suspension takes up the motion providing us with the nice ride. I want the nice ride for my Bushtec and the contents.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Your thinking is right on the money so look at it this way. When you watch a video of a vehicle going over the rough section of a test track designed to test suspension. The wheels are going up and down like crazy although not leaving the ground but the vehicle has very little motion. Which one would you like your nut sack attached to??? I would prefer to not be attached to the wheel.:shocked: On the spyder the sidewall flex alone on sharp bumps puts a lot of motion into the trailer tongue. Follow a Spyder with a hitch sometime and watch the hitch closely, there is a lot of motion that the rider never feels because the suspension takes up the motion providing us with the nice ride. I want the nice ride for my Bushtec and the contents.

It sounds like you have thought this out well, however, since you are attaching to the frame and not the swing arm, instead of actually loosing that 50 lbs from the Spyder's rear suspension, you are adding it to it. The frame is what the rear shock attaches to and since you are attaching to the frame, that additional hitch and tongue weight will be added to the load on the rear suspension, not subtracted from it. That is one of the reasons that they use the swing arm to attach to. Hope you can see what I'm saying....

 

[JP58]

My friend has a hitch on the swing arm and a box on a rack and the bumps beat the crap out of that box. I would not put glass or soda in that box. it would break and bust open. If it was mounted to the frame it would not jar the box like that. It would be as smooth as the passenger feels on bumps because you actually have a shock absorber working.

 

[fjray]

It sounds like you have thought this out well, however, since you are attaching to the frame and not the swing arm, instead of actually loosing that 50 lbs from the Spyder's rear suspension, you are adding it to it. The frame is what the rear shock attaches to and since you are attaching to the frame, that additional hitch and tongue weight will be added to the load on the rear suspension, not subtracted from it. That is one of the reasons that they use the swing arm to attach to. Hope you can see what I'm saying....

You are correct. the difference is that it becomes sprung weight rather than unsprung. That's why they went to the upsidedown forks on sport bikes. It reduces unsprung weight and improve handling.

 

[PMK]

You are correct. the difference is that it becomes sprung weight rather than unsprung. That's why they went to the upsidedown forks on sport bikes. It reduces unsprung weight and improve handling.

I like your trailer hitch idea. I hope you sort it out.

As for USD forks, the benefit when first introduced was decreased flex, bending and more precise steering input. The unsprung amount would be comparable since right side ups have aluminum lowers and steel uppers, while USD has steel lowers and aluminum uppers, chances are, the weight was moved lower for a lower CG more than for unsprung amounts.