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Thread: SM6 vs SE6

  1. #1
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    Default SM6 vs SE6

    Thinking of buying a 2017 f3 limited or order an F3T and add the tour pack on the rear. My dealer let me test drive an RT limited for the weekend, he doesn't currently have an F3 demo to ride. I hate the SE6 transmission. Plus this thing feels WAY under powered, is the SM6 model more powerful feeling? They say this thing has 100hp or so to the wheel, sure doesn't feel like it. Is the F3 geared different than the RT? I don't understand how people describe this thing as being torquey, is it me? The demo is a 2016 RT limited, had 58 miles on it when i took it. It has around 275 now. I can get used to the atv like handling, the lack of power would be a deal breaker unless the manual trans model is waaaay better.

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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil faulty View Post
    Thinking of buying a 2017 f3 limited or order an F3T and add the tour pack on the rear. My dealer let me test drive an RT limited for the weekend, he doesn't currently have an F3 demo to ride. I hate the SE6 transmission. Plus this thing feels WAY under powered, is the SM6 model more powerful feeling? They say this thing has 100hp or so to the wheel, sure doesn't feel like it. Is the F3 geared different than the RT? I don't understand how people describe this thing as being torquey, is it me? The demo is a 2016 RT limited, had 58 miles on it when i took it. It has around 275 now. I can get used to the atv like handling, the lack of power would be a deal breaker unless the manual trans model is waaaay better.
    What's the basis for your comparison, i.e., what are you using as a standard to judge the RT against?

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    Active Member SteveP's Avatar
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    Default I thought so

    My only experience in comparison is my 2008 GS SM5 against a 2013 RSS SE . The semi auto was one I drove for a Spyder course I took ( insurance break) for 1 day basically, and I found that it did not have nearly as much pull as my GS . Many on here say there should be no difference but it was for me . The triple should have decent power but as mentioned above what are you used to driving ? The Spyders don't perform like a 1000cc sport bike but will generally hang in there with most of the cruisers

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    Very Active Member Copperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil faulty View Post
    Thinking of buying a 2017 f3 limited or order an F3T and add the tour pack on the rear. My dealer let me test drive an RT limited for the weekend, he doesn't currently have an F3 demo to ride. I hate the SE6 transmission. Plus this thing feels WAY under powered, is the SM6 model more powerful feeling? They say this thing has 100hp or so to the wheel, sure doesn't feel like it. Is the F3 geared different than the RT? I don't understand how people describe this thing as being torquey, is it me? The demo is a 2016 RT limited, had 58 miles on it when i took it. It has around 275 now. I can get used to the atv like handling, the lack of power would be a deal breaker unless the manual trans model is waaaay better.
    The F3 Limited has way more power than the RT. You can't compare the two.
    2016 Pearl White, F3 Limited w/ matching BRP hitch & trailer. BajaRon's swaybar, Garmin Zumo 590LM GPS w/ the BRP mount, Lamont's LED head lights, fog lights, frame caps & Trident pegs, TricLED front fender amber & red lights, run/turn/brake lights & saddlebag lights. BRP engine bling & travel cover. F4 windshield. Mustang seat & backrest, Baker Built Air Wings, laser aligned, Spyderpops bumpskid, Spyclops, halo & LED mirror turn signal lights. Elka shocks.

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    The gearboxes themselves are the same, it's just the SE's have electric/hydraulic gear changing that you trigger with the paddles for up/down changes & the ECU will trigger for down changes if you let the revs drop too low for what you are asking of it; & of course the SE has a slightly different clutch & actuation (& it's not a torque converter!)

    So in reality it's the same gearbox & you've still got manual control over the gear changes up & down; the only real difference is that you have no manual clutch activation tool & the computers will stop you from doing anything silly if you let the revs drop.... So what exactly is it about the gearbox that you don't like??

    As for the power thing, I have always felt the V-Twin Rotax's are more 'exciting' to operate, but there's no denying that the 1330 Triples have more torque than they do, & the F3's optimise the 'fun' you can put that power & torque to - altho I still think they are a pretty lazy motor that could be sooo much better & more fun with a turbo & Sport mode across the board, even in the RT's!!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 10-22-2016 at 11:01 PM.

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    Sorry, my current ride is a GL 1800 Goldwing. Although I have had many many bikes in my 30 plus years of having a motorcycle license.

    What do I hate.... the way it engages from a stop, the clumsiness of it shifting and downshifting, I am assuming it robs horsepower through whatever clutch or torque converter it uses?

    With my wing at highway speeds, let's say 75-80 I can just stab the throttle without downshifting and in a blink I am at 100 and still pulling hard. Makes it very easy to pass or get out of the way. Also can slow down to 30 or so without downshifting and just roll the throttle and it will pull nicely. With the RT I find myself downshifting all the time and even then it doesn't pull hard. The wing is supposed to be under 100hp, weight close to the same, but even loaded up heavily with luggage, 2up and pulling a trailer it has way more pull from midrange to the top. I wonder if the RT is still too new and not broke in? Auto trans robbing power? Or is it just how they are?

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    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Depends....

    Agree one needs to know where your coming from. Your best bet is to go to another dealer with an F3 demo so you can see the difference yourself. There are differences but you will have to see them to decide if it is enough....
    Gene and Ilana De Laney
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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default SPYDER VS. MOTORCYCLE

    Do yourself a favor don't buy a Spyder ....... ...... Mike

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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    It's NOT an 'auto trans' like a car auto, it's a manual trans with a semi auto electric/hydraulic shift that's more precise than a manual shift, so it isn't going to be robbing horsepower! Similarly, it's NOT a torque converter, it's a hydraulic clutch that engages better than a centrifugal or most 'normal' automotive clutches can once there's oil pressure, so it's not going to be robbing power either.....

    However, with less than about 1000 miles on the engine, there is a fairly good chance that it might still be a tad tight; but there's also a good chance that you are noticing the fairly aggressive hydraulic clutch engagement at slower speeds/revs (the oil pressure for the clutch comes from its own pump) giving you that clunky feeling; & the roll on & engine braking differences you notice are likely just a matter of cubic inches, or cubic centimetres if you like - 1800 is always going to be different to control than 1330 in a lot of ways.

    Still, like I said earlier, it is a fairly lazy engine, probably because of the way the computers doing all the controlling are set up; with any luck that could be 'livened up' a fair whack down track once the A/covering legal bods & bean counters become more confident about the ultimate safety of the design regardless of the skills (or lack there-of) of the riders just starting out on these things, they have been doing this slowly since the very first Spyders first hit the market. And of course, if you persist & give a go, once you learn better how to take advantage of the unique features of the design you'll get a whole lot quicker at cornering & punting it along smoothly & you'll be able to do that a fair bit faster than most start out doing too. It takes almost everyone 500-1000 miles or so to come to grips with the differences, often somewhat more for die-hard motor-cyclists who have more 'skills & expectations' to un-learn than most!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 10-23-2016 at 12:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Do yourself a favor don't buy a Spyder ....... ...... Mike
    Ok, enlighten me.

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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default WELL - MAYBE

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil faulty View Post
    Ok, enlighten me.
    .............Most of what you mentioned that you don't like is MAJOR and can't be changed or fixed or adjusted enough.... So don't spend a HUGH amount of money on something that you are going to be fighting with ........ Life is too short ......... The folks here are Spyder fanatics and they will argue about how much THEY love it until they PASS OUT or you give in and buy an LTD ...... I'm just trying to save you from making a mis-take..... I love my Spyder and wouldn't go back to any of my Wings, but the Spyder is different in so many ways ..... crap it isn't even a Motorcycle when you get down to it...... A Spyder is a Mtc. for Legal reasons not physical ones..... If you drive a Spyder like you would a Mtc. you will go off the road in less than 300 feet....... Best of luck...... Mike

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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil faulty View Post
    Sorry, my current ride is a GL 1800 Goldwing. Although I have had many many bikes in my 30 plus years of having a motorcycle license.

    What do I hate.... the way it engages from a stop, the clumsiness of it shifting and downshifting, I am assuming it robs horsepower through whatever clutch or torque converter it uses?

    With my wing at highway speeds, let's say 75-80 I can just stab the throttle without downshifting and in a blink I am at 100 and still pulling hard. Makes it very easy to pass or get out of the way. Also can slow down to 30 or so without downshifting and just roll the throttle and it will pull nicely. With the RT I find myself downshifting all the time and even then it doesn't pull hard. The wing is supposed to be under 100hp, weight close to the same, but even loaded up heavily with luggage, 2up and pulling a trailer it has way more pull from midrange to the top. I wonder if the RT is still too new and not broke in? Auto trans robbing power? Or is it just how they are?
    I had an 1800 for 8 years and 52,000 miles. So first off, the Spyder ain't a Goldwing. When pulling a trailer, going uphill, and fighting a headwind the Spyder doesn't have what the GW has. One of my assessments, and many don't really agree, is that above 70 mph the Spyder does not have the power and torque reserve the GW has. I almost always shift down to get up to 85 or so to pass a semi as fast as I can. I ride solo and when I don't have the trailer I notice the performance is markedly better. Keep in mind it's 1330 cc's compared to 1800 cc's. You gotta expect some differences.

    The hydraulic clutch does not give you the instantaneous take off a 'wing has. Am I 100% enchanted with the Spyder? No, but damn close! Will I give up the Spyder to go back to a 'wing? Not on your life. It may not be a Goldwing but I feel a hell of a lot safer on it. Not worrying about tipping over has reinstilled the joy of riding for me. And I feel a whole safer on the Spyder at 80 mph than I ever did on my GW at 70 mph.

    Like I used to tell my kids, "You can't have everything!"

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.

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    Active Member Gsebring's Avatar
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    Default I'm no expert

    I off my wing to my new f-3 limited. I won't look back. I felt the wing for me was large, heavy and combersom. Yes it was super fast, almost never shifting gears and hit 120 in a flash but I lost the fun factor to the ride. Test drove a 012 spyder that was way under powered and was unsatifyed till I rode the F-3 with the triple 1330 and had a blast. The se6 tranny is way cool. I haven't even taken it out of econo mode yet. Plenty of power and tork.
    Two different bikes - two different experiences

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    Default In ECO Mode?

    I wonder if the test bike was in ECO mode?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrb3004 View Post
    I wonder if the test bike was in ECO mode?
    Nope, I checked.

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    Active Member Brian Kay's Avatar
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    I test rode a F3 SM6 and it felt much quicker and more torquey than my '14 RTS-SM6. I still like having the clutch and control of the shifting...but I don't think it offers up any more power, like a standard shift automobile would. You have to test ride the F3, because it's lighter, you sit lower, have a different seat/foot position, and all in all just offers up a different ride experience. Undeniably, you will feel safer on the Spyder versus the Wings.

    The other option is to look into converting a wing into a spyder like reverse trike...they're out there! Just have to have about $40k available
    Brian Kay - Kennesaw, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    .............Most of what you mentioned that you don't like is MAJOR and can't be changed or fixed or adjusted enough.... So don't spend a HUGH amount of money on something that you are going to be fighting with ........ Life is too short ......... The folks here are Spyder fanatics and they will argue about how much THEY love it until they PASS OUT or you give in and buy an LTD ...... I'm just trying to save you from making a mis-take..... I love my Spyder and wouldn't go back to any of my Wings, but the Spyder is different in so many ways ..... crap it isn't even a Motorcycle when you get down to it...... A Spyder is a Mtc. for Legal reasons not physical ones..... If you drive a Spyder like you would a Mtc. you will go off the road in less than 300 feet....... Best of luck...... Mike
    You are probably right. Unfortunately for me I probably have to move from 2 wheels before too long. I have 2 issues creeping up on me that will probably put me on 3 wheels at some point. Sounds like I need to test drive a Goldwing trike although I will probably hate the steering or a slingshot. Slingshot is too much like a car though and I already have a convertible.

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    Very Active Member Mazo EMS2's Avatar
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    I came from a Honda ST1300. It was a pretty big surprise to have, what seemed like a "loss of power". Indeed there is a lag in getting up to that sweet spot on the Spyder....(2010RT SM5), but it wasn't a very long adjustment time for me. There are many benefits to having 3 wheels, that altogether, they outweighed the seeming "loss of power". I do still have the urge to twist the throttle and raise the front wheel a bit, but like I said, there is no comparison....for me, the benefits of 3 wheels vs 2 will keep me on my Spyder. As far as SE vs SM, I have no experience with the SE transmission, and quite frankly, I love having the clutch in my left hand.

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    As they say in the motoring world, there is no substitute for cubic inches. You can't expect a 1330 to match an 1800 in torque unless you add megabuck parts.

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    Active Member Brian Kay's Avatar
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    Default Goldwing Reverse Trike

    20160813_090843.jpg

    Motor trike sells a conversion kit for the reverse trike...this was one that I saw in person and really liked it! Again, about $40k all said and done, but you have a gold wing between your legs.
    Brian Kay - Kennesaw, GA
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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default OMG - GOLD WING OR HD TRIKE

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil faulty View Post
    You are probably right. Unfortunately for me I probably have to move from 2 wheels before too long. I have 2 issues creeping up on me that will probably put me on 3 wheels at some point. Sounds like I need to test drive a Goldwing trike although I will probably hate the steering or a slingshot. Slingshot is too much like a car though and I already have a convertible.
    Friend I was in the same situation, switch or stick with my Shelby Cobra for thrills...... My feeling on the regular Trikes is ..... they are " death machines " , in comparison to the handling of any Spyder .....jmho.... Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Copperman View Post
    The F3 Limited has way more power than the RT. You can't compare the two.
    That's actually not at all correct...
    What it has: is much lower gearing, and much less weight.
    The power of the engines is identical.

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    I'm kind of disappointed actually. I knew coming from a wing there would be some things i would have to give up. I can get over the handling aspect without a problem, I can get over not having built in comms, CD changer, and the crappy stereo sytem compared to the wing. Wife is not nearly as comfortable on the RT as she is on the wing and the lack of power kills it. Up to 60 or so is ok, after that it just feels like you are forcing it albeit unwillingly. We do a fair amount of traveling and "ride in" so we need to have enough reserve power especially on the freeway to get out of a jamb. I imagine you could hang in the right lane and do the speed limit all day but where's the fun in that. We travel through the Baltimore area and DC on our way out of town most times and all the cage drivers will run you over if you aren't doing at least 85.

    We rode the wing to the dragon and back a couple weeks ago, 1800 miles in 4 days. On the way home I set the cruise for 85, never downshifted and didn't stop til I needed gas. 700 mile trip home, effortless keeping that pace and got 41mpg. I guess I am spoiled. I'm going to ride 2 wheels as long as i can I guess and who knows after that. it just seems crazy to me that they would build this thing and under power it for freeway cruising. I want to 'll like it, really I do.

    To all that say it is because it is 1800cc versus 1330cc, I used to have a Voyager xii, 1200cc that weighed close to what the wing does and that Thing made gobs of power too. In fact every motorcycle ive ever ridden had more than enough power on the freeway to get out of a jamb if needed, regardless of engine size. The manufacturer put enough power onboard for the size of the bike.

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    Very Active Member Mazo EMS2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil faulty View Post
    I'm kind of disappointed actually. I knew coming from a wing there would be some things i would have to give up. I can get over the handling aspect without a problem, I can get over not having built in comms, CD changer, and the crappy stereo sytem compared to the wing. Wife is not nearly as comfortable on the RT as she is on the wing and the lack of power kills it. Up to 60 or so is ok, after that it just feels like you are forcing it albeit unwillingly. We do a fair amount of traveling and "ride in" so we need to have enough reserve power especially on the freeway to get out of a jamb. I imagine you could hang in the right lane and do the speed limit all day but where's the fun in that. We travel through the Baltimore area and DC on our way out of town most times and all the cage drivers will run you over if you aren't doing at least 85.

    We rode the wing to the dragon and back a couple weeks ago, 1800 miles in 4 days. On the way home I set the cruise for 85, never downshifted and didn't stop til I needed gas. 700 mile trip home, effortless keeping that pace and got 41mpg. I guess I am spoiled. I'm going to ride 2 wheels as long as i can I guess and who knows after that. it just seems crazy to me that they would build this thing and under power it for freeway cruising. I want to 'll like it, really I do.

    To all that say it is because it is 1800cc versus 1330cc, I used to have a Voyager xii, 1200cc that weighed close to what the wing does and that Thing made gobs of power too. In fact every motorcycle ive ever ridden had more than enough power on the freeway to get out of a jamb if needed, regardless of engine size. The manufacturer put enough power onboard for the size of the bike.
    FWIW, I think the 2010 RT 998 twin is underpowered too. In fact I remember posting that I thought it was a "pooch". The only "fix" to the feeling of lack of power is to run it in 4th gear and keep the rpm's at or over 5K. Like I said, I love the safety and convenience of 3 wheels, but I do miss the snappy power of my 2 wheeler. Sounds like you should stick to two wheels until the day comes that you need 3. It's all good. No one can fault you for that.

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    I'm not trying to be mean; perhaps you bought the wrong bike.
    A bit more research before writing a check, might have made the difference.
    sorry...

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