D.E.S.S. Key code again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PaladinLV]

Would you "humor" me and try

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...89#post1025389

AJ

Here is the newest picture of the D.E.S.S. KEY CODE on my 2014RTS-SE6: I tried both keys and got the same D.E.S.S. error code, I also turned the key 4 to 5 cycles, and I DID NOT LET THE SYSTEM SHUT DOWN, the dealer told me this ( via phone call last week) I was at home when this occurred. BRP must get a grip on this asap. Deanna

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Here is the newest picture of the D.E.S.S. KEY CODE on my 2014RTS-SE6: I tried both keys and got the same D.E.S.S. error code, I also turned the key 4 to 5 cycles, and I DID NOT LET THE SYSTEM SHUT DOWN, the dealer told me this ( via phone call last week) I was at home when this occurred. BRP must get a grip on this asap. Deanna

.....I'm sure Bob is going to be a HUGH amount a Help with this............Right ...Bob

[DrewNJ]

Seems like quite a few DESS issues on the 14+ models popping up. Nothing worse than electrical gremlins to ruin your confidence in your ride.....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Deanna777]

Seems like quite a few DESS issues on the 14+ models popping up. Nothing worse than electrical gremlins to ruin your confidence in your ride.....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I sent an email to my can-am dealer, and asked them to make a note of this on their paper work that they have.

My can-am dealer has opened a case with BRP about the D.E.S.S issue that I am having, I am waiting to hear back from my can-am dealership on what BRP what to do next. Deanna

[Deanna777]

Try the foil and document the results.

Next I would try clearing the system by removing the battery negative lead from the battery post so the battery is isolated, then touch the negative lead to the positive.

My thoughts, no guarantees.

PK

I will try( next week-end, my work week starts on Sunday) the foil experiment and post the results when I get a chance. If I get stranded when I am out riding/or doing errands I will call Roadside Assistance. Deanna

[Dubliner]

So do you wear the foil hat under your helmet?

[Bob Denman]

.....I'm sure Bob is going to be a HUGH amount a Help with this............Right ...Bob

Which Bob are you talking about? I'm pretty sure that finless has offered up some useful info...
Even I managed to throw about a penny's worth of advice onto the pile; it may not work, but I did try.

What useful information have you brought to the table?

[Deanna777]

Wanted to add, for us, I always let the key be installed and set for a minute before I power up. Also, and don't tell anyone, inside the garage I leave the key in the ignition most times.

I know don't tell, but they would need to move a bunch of crap to get the machine out.

PK

PK, I put the key into the ignition, then I get my helmet ( in the frunk) then I go thru the procedure on the starting the spyder, and then I power up.

Also, I want to tell any one that you have a lot of crap in front of your machine . Deanna

[Deanna777]

I got a phone call today, from my can-am dealer, ( Walt's Sales & Service in Derby Line, VT) saying "that they were told to Replace the D.E.S.S. module ( this will be the 2nd time) and the ignition Switch.

I have an appointment for this Friday, I hope by replacing the D.E.S.S module and the ignition Switch solves the problem. BRP needs to fix this problem/ and get a grip on it. Deanna

[Pampurrs]

I got a phone call today, from my can-am dealer, ( Walt's Sales & Service in Derby Line, VT) saying "that they were told to Replace the D.E.S.S. module ( this will be the 2nd time) and the ignition Switch.

I have an appointment for this Friday, I hope by replacing the D.E.S.S module and the ignition Switch solves the problem. BRP needs to fix this problem/ and get a grip on it. Deanna

Fingers crossed

Pam

[Deanna777]

Fingers crossed

Pam

Pam, I will post on here if I have any more updates. Thanks Deanna

[gypsy_100]

I got a phone call today, from my can-am dealer, ( Walt's Sales & Service in Derby Line, VT) saying "that they were told to Replace the D.E.S.S. module ( this will be the 2nd time) and the ignition Switch.

I have an appointment for this Friday, I hope by replacing the D.E.S.S module and the ignition Switch solves the problem. BRP needs to fix this problem/ and get a grip on it. Deanna

Not to be a pessimist but I think BRP is grasping at straws here. They don't know what to do so they replace everything. In my mind, the ignition switch just holds the key. The communication is between the key and the DESS module. The switch has nothing to do with it. I sincerely hope there is more to it that I don't understand. Wouldn't be the first time.

Is your unit consistently showing the error? According to the shop manual, there is no way to actually test the DESS module. The manual says to replace the module and if the problem goes away, then it was the module. If it does not go away, then it wasn't the module. But if your problem is intermittent, you won't know for sure if it's fixed or not. That would be the case here even if you replace both components. If your error always occurs, then the good news is you will know if it's fixed or not.

I appreciate your updates on this problem. I know you'll keep us posted on the results after the work is done Friday. Thanks.

[gypsy_100]

In reading the manual further, there is more to it. At one point the manual says the DESS antenna is powered up by the ECM when you turn the key on and the antenna energizes the microcircuit in the key and then receives the key code and transmits it to the ECM. In another section, it just says that the antenna receives the key code and transmits the info to the ECM without mention of energizing the microcircuit in the key. Either way, the antenna is a part of the operation and is included in the ignition switch. It is not available separately and is part of the switch. So if the problem is with the antenna, replacing the switch would do it. The only test that can be done on the antenna is for continuity -- the circuit is either continuous or it's open and defective.

The switch is common to all 2014's -- all models. Interestingly, the on-line parts manual currently shows the 2014 switch as unavailable -- 710003598. No upgrade, just unavailable. For 2015's, the ignition switch has changed to 710004277 and is again for all models. That switch is available. What did they change in the switch? Anything to do with the antenna? Only BRP knows. It will be interesting to see which switch they install for you on Friday.

[Deanna777]

Not to be a pessimist but I think BRP is grasping at straws here. They don't know what to do so they replace everything. In my mind, the ignition switch just holds the key. The communication is between the key and the DESS module. The switch has nothing to do with it. I sincerely hope there is more to it that I don't understand. Wouldn't be the first time.

Is your unit consistently showing the error? According to the shop manual, there is no way to actually test the DESS module. The manual says to replace the module and if the problem goes away, then it was the module. If it does not go away, then it wasn't the module. But if your problem is intermittent, you won't know for sure if it's fixed or not. That would be the case here even if you replace both components. If your error always occurs, then the good news is you will know if it's fixed or not.

I appreciate your updates on this problem. I know you'll keep us posted on the results after the work is done Friday. Thanks.

I think that BRP is going around in circles about the D.E.S.S module problem. My first Spyder was 2012RTS-SE5 and I did not have the D.E.S.S. error. I had the D .E.S.S module replaced/or the keys reprogramed on the my 2014RTS-SE6.


I agree with you "I think that BRP is grasping @ straws, about the D.E.S.S module. I wonder if it is a particular month/year when the spyders came off the production line.

No, my unit is not consistently showing the error. Can the dealerships test the D.E.S.S. module?
I will need the luck on Friday............ I will post when I can about the results, and if the D.E.S.S Error shows up( which I hope it does not show up) Stay Tuned...............................Deanna

[Deanna777]

In reading the manual further, there is more to it. At one point the manual says the DESS antenna is powered up by the ECM when you turn the key on and the antenna energizes the microcircuit in the key and then receives the key code and transmits it to the ECM. In another section, it just says that the antenna receives the key code and transmits the info to the ECM without mention of energizing the microcircuit in the key. Either way, the antenna is a part of the operation and is included in the ignition switch. It is not available separately and is part of the switch. So if the problem is with the antenna, replacing the switch would do it. The only test that can be done on the antenna is for continuity -- the circuit is either continuous or it's open and defective.

The switch is common to all 2014's -- all models. Interestingly, the on-line parts manual currently shows the 2014 switch as unavailable -- 710003598. No upgrade, just unavailable. For 2015's, the ignition switch has changed to 710004277 and is again for all models. That switch is available. What did they change in the switch? Anything to do with the antenna? Only BRP knows. It will be interesting to see which switch they install for you on Friday.

Thanks for the above info, and stay tuned to this "Thread for further updates. Deanna

[gypsy_100]

I think that BRP is going around in circles about the D.E.S.S module problem. My first Spyder was 2012RTS-SE5 and I did not have the D.E.S.S
error or the have the D.E.S.S module replaced/or the keys reprogramed.

No, my unit is not consistently showing the error. Can the dealerships test the D.E.S.S. module?
I will need the luck on Friday............ I will post when I can about the results, and if the D.E.S.S Error shows up( which I hope it does not show up) Stay Tuned...............................Deanna

Prior to 2014's, the DESS module did the authentication and told the ECM it was OK to start the bike. For 2014 they changed strategy and made the DESS module just a pass thru. It just receives the information, passes it on to the ECM and the ECM does the authentication. So experience with prior years is totally different.

The manual says there is no way to test the DESS module. If all the wires and connections are good, then replace the module. If the problem goes away, problem solved. If not, then the problem was not the module. That's what the manual says. That unfortunately doesn't help much when the problem is intermittent, as these seem to commonly be. You could change the module and think the problem is solved but really haven't fixed or found the problem. The fault reoccurs just like it did before you changed the module.

[Deanna777]

Prior to 2014's, the DESS module did the authentication and told the ECM it was OK to start the bike. For 2014 they changed strategy and made the DESS module just a pass thru. It just receives the information, passes it on to the ECM and the ECM does the authentication. So experience with prior years is totally different.

The manual says there is no way to test the DESS module. If all the wires and connections are good, then replace the module. If the problem goes away, problem solved. If not, then the problem was not the module. That's what the manual says. That unfortunately doesn't help much when the problem is intermittent, as these seem to commonly be. You could change the module and think the problem is solved but really haven't fixed or found the problem. The fault reoccurs just like it did before you changed the module.

BRP needs to get a handle on the DESS issue. BRP are you listening. Deanna

[Bob Denman]

Prior to 2014's, the DESS module did the authentication and told the ECM it was OK to start the bike. For 2014 they changed strategy and made the DESS module just a pass thru. It just receives the information, passes it on to the ECM and the ECM does the authentication. So experience with prior years is totally different.

Thanks for this information!
So by handing the "heavy lifting off to the ECM; was this what was necessary, in order to provide the new rolling code security system?

[LEEB]

I just posted an update to my DESS issue on the 'Spyder RT - Touring' thread. The dealer replaced the DESS again.

[Deanna777]

I have some good news,

Took spyder to dealer today( Walt's Sales &Service) they replaced D.E.S.S.module ( 2nd time) (part # 710004190 ) and replaced ignition switch( 1st time) ( part # 710004413) & shaped the keys to fit the new ignition Switch.

This is under warranty Also, they replaced the rear trunk key lock. Mileage on Spyder when it went in for the warranty work: 8,740.

So hopefully I do not get the D.E.S.S key code. But if I do I will post on this thread. Deanna

[Deanna777]

In reading the manual further, there is more to it. At one point the manual says the DESS antenna is powered up by the ECM when you turn the key on and the antenna energizes the microcircuit in the key and then receives the key code and transmits it to the ECM. In another section, it just says that the antenna receives the key code and transmits the info to the ECM without mention of energizing the microcircuit in the key. Either way, the antenna is a part of the operation and is included in the ignition switch. It is not available separately and is part of the switch. So if the problem is with the antenna, replacing the switch would do it. The only test that can be done on the antenna is for continuity -- the circuit is either continuous or it's open and defective.

The switch is common to all 2014's -- all models. Interestingly, the on-line parts manual currently shows the 2014 switch as unavailable -- 710003598. No upgrade, just unavailable. For 2015's, the ignition switch has changed to 710004277 and is again for all models. That switch is available. What did they change in the switch? Anything to do with the antenna? Only BRP knows. It will be interesting to see which switch they install for you on Friday.

Hi, I have a new part # for the Ignition Switch, it is 710004413. I have a 2014RTS-SE6. Deanna

[gypsy_100]

Hi, I have a new part # for the Ignition Switch, it is 710004413. I have a 2014RTS-SE6. Deanna

Interesting, to say the least. I just looked again at BRP and ProCaliber's on-line parts manuals. They still show 3598 for the '14's (which BRP says is unavailable, Pro Caliber does not say that) and 4277 for the '15's. A reverse search for 4413 says "No Parts Found. Try Again." Let's hope BRP is on to something here with this new part. Sure would be nice if they told us that was the solution rather than leaving us in the dark. Meanwhile, they'll update the parts manuals. Thanks for the info.

[MarcusB]

I am on my 2nd replacement module, the 2nd one is a 2015 part#, no problems since the 2nd install. BRP told my dealer they are not sure if the 2015 # is the fix, but they have had much less problems w/2015. MarcusB

[StanProff]

I got the first DESS problem last week, 4,000 miles on a '14 RTS. It did restart after turning the switch on and off about 3 or 4 times. Dealer says that BRP will not address the problem unless the problem can be duplicated at the dealer. Meaning it would have to fail leaving me stranded and towed to the dealer. Then it could start at the dealer so what then? My dealer is a good dealer and friend, they are dissapointed in BRP's response to this issue. They said that if and when it happens again to take a pic of the screen and document it before trying to restart. If it won't start it will be towed to the dealer. If it does start they will push on BRP again. I have been a strong Spyder advocate and am on my 2nd Spyder. It is simply not a very good feeling to wonder, every time you ride, if you are going to get stranded. We all know BRP monitors the forum and responds when they have something to say about a problem. The lack of response tells me they don't know what to say or do about this issue. I have been totally happy with the '14 Spyder aside from this problem. Love it, but no one wants to gamble every time they turn the key to see if it will start, Then if it does start you wonder if you'll get back home. I work out of town and get home on weekends, I love to ride and this is my way of stress relief from the job. I hope something can be done soon. At least with Limp mode you can get somewhere.
I guess I've vented enough. Thanks for bearing with me. On a good note, BRP is replacing the rear tire under warranty, it was down to the ware bars at about 3400 miles. Yea!
Stan

[kbwitt]

BRP hates this as much as we all do. It is their reputation and future sales. They have been working hard with techs, think they have issue solved when positive, they will go into action.
Mean time TAKE KEY OUT AND START OVER.
Good luck and have fun.