D.E.S.S. Key code again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cohoff]

Is this the first D.E.S.S module that got replaced?

The part # for the D.E.S.S. module that my dealership replaced in my 2014RTS-SE6 is 710004190. On my invoice the price say's $0.00 for the D.E.S.S. module, and the switch #is 710004413 and the cost for that is $0.00. Also, the 2 items were under warranty and I still have warranty left.

Glad that you finally got your spyder started, so you could take to your dealership. Keep us posted what happens next. Deanna

I stand corrected Deanna......just relooked at my invoices. The first DESS module that was replaced on my 2014 RT-S SE6 has a part number of 710004190. This was in June 2015.

My second DESS module was replaced in October 2015 and the part number was 710004697.

Why would they have different part numbers?

[Deanna777]

I stand corrected Deanna......just relooked at my invoices. The first DESS module that was replaced on my 2014 RT-S SE6 has a part number of 710004190. This was in June 2015.

My second DESS module was replaced in October 2015 and the part number was 710004697.

Why would they have different part numbers?

Did your can-am dealership order the right part # from the get go? ( for your 2014RT-S SE6)

Or did a tech( at your dealership) have a lot of installs to do ,the day that you brought your 2014RTS-SE6 in for your 2nd DESS module replaced? Maybe the ( the tech at your dealership) picked-up the wrong part?

I got the following parts info. for Model Year, Model, Part Number
2014 RS,ST,RT 710004190
2015 RS,ST,RT 710004241
2015 F3 710004697


I got the above info from my can-am dealership that says" ROADSTER 2014-015 D.E.S.S. Error Displayed in Cluster_000104494_TST61Y014S10_en. Ask your can-am dealership about the part number 710004697. Keep me posted on what you find out about the part number( 710004697) Deanna

[StanProff]

Well if things go as planned I will have a Pearl White 2011 RT limited this Saturday, 3,460 miles on it. hoping I have no d.e.s.s. issues. been researching these bikes, sure do hope I am making the right move.

The ,11s as far as I know, don't have the DESS issue. That is a good bike. I had a '10 RTS that never had an issue in over 25,000 miles . I traded up to a '14 last year. Your getting almost a new spyder, great find. Enjoy.

[Deanna777]

Well if things go as planned I will have a Pearl White 2011 RT limited this Saturday, 3,460 miles on it. hoping I have no d.e.s.s. issues. been researching these bikes, sure do hope I am making the right move.

I had a 2012RTS-SE5 and had no D.E.S.S. issues. Good Luck Deanna

[larryd]

Talked to my dealer and I'm getting another new module #710004916...Will be installed next Mon. 11/9/15...Dealer said this is the latest update/fix for the DESS problem, I HOPE SO...larryd

[finless]

I'm sorry, I just don't know how to be more explicit.

My Can Am dealer did not replace my ignition switch because it was deemed unnecessary.
Perhaps this is a sign of the evolution of diagnosing these DESS problems.

Catching up on this post a little.....

Unlike previous years where the DESS Antenna (the coil around the key switch which reads the chip in the key) could be replaced as a seperate unit, the 2014 and up the antenna is part of the key switch.

So if there is a problem with the antenna (which is what reads the key), then yes they do need to replace the key switch.

Why BRP went to this setup requiring the entire Spyder to be re-keyed is beyond me...

Taken directly from the 2014 RT service manual:



Bob

[ThreeWheels]

Catching up on this post a little.....

Unlike previous years where the DESS Antenna (the coil around the key switch which reads the chip in the key) could be replaced as a seperate unit, the 2014 and up the antenna is part of the key switch.

So if there is a problem with the antenna (which is what reads the key), then yes they do need to replace the key switch.

Why BRP went to this setup requiring the entire Spyder to be re-keyed is beyond me...

Bob

Well, there you have it, from the guy who knows more than most about this stuff.
The static noise I had in my blue-tooth sound system went away with the DESS module replacement.
I guess in my case there was no need to replace the antenna.

[Deanna777]

Talked to my dealer and I'm getting another new module #710004916...Will be installed next Mon. 11/9/15...Dealer said this is the latest update/fix for the DESS problem, I HOPE SO...larryd

Does the new module part # 710004916 fit the 2016 spyders?

That the part # is different from the part# 's that I have( and I have D.E.S.S. module # 710004190, Switch # 710004413 ) and I have a 2014RTS-SE6.

Do you have warranty left on your spyder?
Deanna

[larryd]

Does the new module part # 710004916 fit the 2016 spyders?

That the part # is different from the part# 's that I have( and I have D.E.S.S. module # 710004190, Switch # 710004413 ) and I have a 2014RTS-SE6.

Do you have warranty left on your spyder?
Deanna

I don't know if the 916 module fits the 16 Spyders...

I had the 190 module as a replacement back on 6-30-15...

Yes its still under warranty...

larryd

[Deanna777]

I don't know if the 916 module fits the 16 Spyders...

I had the 190 module as a replacement back on 6-30-15...

Yes its still under warranty...

larryd

I had the 4190 module replaced on Aug. 28, 15 and the 4413 switch replaced on Aug. 28,15. Would you find out if the 916 module fits the 16 spyders?

I hope you do not get the DESS error again.

Deanna

[beadaholic]

Do I was in the back parking lot of a Walmart here, waiting on a phone call that I needed to get. Once I got tired of waiting tried to turn on my bike, and guess what? I got the dreaded DESS error! Arg!! I took the key out and let it power down, and tried again and it started up just fine. I was stupid and forgot to take a picture of it. I just bought 2 keys for it (haven't used any of them yet, I am using the original still). But I am not sure how this is going to work here in Mexico! They try (and this is wrong and I know better) to say we only have 1 year warranty. I have shown them the error of their ways and that I have 2 years. Anyway, hopefully this was just a fluke and I never see it again, or ?? I am not sure that is such a good idea either because I don't want to get stuck somewhere. It is 3 hours of hard riding to get to the dealer, and they have a 2 week backup because we don't have dealers here....it is going to be super complicated because it means I have to go there, have someone come after me in the car, then we have to come back together, it is a long and hard trip. When this happened I hesitated when moving the key, different than my usual turn the key thing, so I am not sure it is a true DESS error or not? I guess if I got the screen it is a DESS error....arg.

[larryd]

BRP needs to get a handle on this problem...These DESS errors are trashing the reliability and reputation of a otherwise excellent machine...When I'm out riding I get scared every time I turn the machine off..This replacing parts that only temporality fix the problem is unacceptable...BRP needs to program the DESS off until the cause and the fix are found...Or maybe have a way the owners can set up a bypass code and then key in the code if this error occurs...My dealer has close to a hundred 14 & 15 Syders sold and I'm the only one with this problem...WHY??? The earlier Spyder's didn't have this problem...This technology of making things more complicated just because manufactures can is NOT always a good thing...

I lost 3 weeks of riding back in June of this year because of this problem...I ended up trailering the Spyder 100 plus miles back to the dealer for repairs and then another 100 plus miles back home all on my dime...Now here it is the end of the prime foliage season and many nice early November seventy degree days and my Spyder has been setting since October 22...I do have an appointment on November 9th for the next DESS module fix...Another 18 days of lost riding...larryd

[spydermanstever]

BRP needs to get a handle on this problem...These DESS errors are trashing the reliability and reputation of a otherwise excellent machine...When I'm out riding I get scared every time I turn the machine off..This replacing parts that only temporality fix the problem is unacceptable...BRP needs to program the DESS off until the cause and the fix are found...Or maybe have a way the owners can set up a bypass code and then key in the code if this error occurs...My dealer has close to a hundred 14 & 15 Syders sold and I'm the only one with this problem...WHY??? The earlier Spyder's didn't have this problem...This technology of making things more complicated just because manufactures can is NOT always a good thing...

I lost 3 weeks of riding back in June of this year because of this problem...I ended up trailering the Spyder 100 plus miles back to the dealer for repairs and then another 100 plus miles back home all on my dime...Now here it is the end of the prime foliage season and many nice early November seventy degree days and my Spyder has been setting since October 22...I do have an appointment on November 9th for the next DESS module fix...Another 18 days of lost riding...larryd

I have been reading the posts on this thread and although I am so far one of the luckier ones with no DESS problems, I feel for those having the problems. I agree with Larry here that there should be some sort of emergency bypass so that the ignition lock becomes just that - a keyed ignition lock - just like most cars had in the eighties before they started chipping keys. Yes it could make the Spyders more at risk for theft but I imagine it would be a trade off that some here would be willing to accept instead of being stranded when DESS prevents their machine from starting. Maybe only dealers could know how to temporarily bypass with BUDS. It would be nice if some mechanical and electronics specialist could come up with a device or way to bypass DESS. It could exist out there but unfortunately only to those that sell "hot" Spyders. Good luck to all having these problems. Keep this thread going until a solution is found.

[Deanna777]

BRP needs to get a handle on this problem...These DESS errors are trashing the reliability and reputation of a otherwise excellent machine...When I'm out riding I get scared every time I turn the machine off..This replacing parts that only temporality fix the problem is unacceptable...BRP needs to program the DESS off until the cause and the fix are found...Or maybe have a way the owners can set up a bypass code and then key in the code if this error occurs...My dealer has close to a hundred 14 & 15 Syders sold and I'm the only one with this problem...WHY??? The earlier Spyder's didn't have this problem...This technology of making things more complicated just because manufactures can is NOT always a good thing...

I lost 3 weeks of riding back in June of this year because of this problem...I ended up trailering the Spyder 100 plus miles back to the dealer for repairs and then another 100 plus miles back home all on my dime...Now here it is the end of the prime foliage season and many nice early November seventy degree days and my Spyder has been setting since October 22...I do have an appointment on November 9th for the next DESS module fix...Another 18 days of lost riding...larryd

Larryd, Do you have roadside assistance/coverage on your motorcycle insurance policy?
Or do you have AAA coverage?
So you would not have to pay for towing.


When I had my second D.E.S.S issue, I was worried that I when I switched off the my spyder that it would not start, but I was thinking to my self, that I have roadside assistance, and I have Towing ( on my motorcycle insurance policy). Also, I knew enough to take the key with me, and walk away, wait for 10- 30 minutes for the computer to reboot. The spyder did start. ( the above happened when I was doing errands ,so when I got home I called the my can-am dealership, I called my can-am dealership on a Tuesday, and I had an appointment on the following Friday, the dealership had the new D.E.S.S. module on Thursday the same week.)

I agree with you BRP NEEDS to get a handle on this problem, BRP are you listening! Let us know what happens on the Nov. 9th.
Deanna

[Deanna777]

I have been reading the posts on this thread and although I am so far one of the luckier ones with no DESS problems, I feel for those having the problems. I agree with Larry here that there should be some sort of emergency bypass so that the ignition lock becomes just that - a keyed ignition lock - just like most cars had in the eighties before they started chipping keys. Yes it could make the Spyders more at risk for theft but I imagine it would be a trade off that some here would be willing to accept instead of being stranded when DESS prevents their machine from starting. Maybe only dealers could know how to temporarily bypass with BUDS. It would be nice if some mechanical and electronics specialist could come up with a device or way to bypass DESS. It could exist out there but unfortunately only to those that sell "hot" Spyders. Good luck to all having these problems. Keep this thread going until a solution is found.

Please keep this thread going. What Larryd said" BRP needs to get a handle on this problem. My first spyder was a 2012RTS-SE5 I did not have the D.E.S.S. issue.
Deanna

[finless]

I am going to bet this is a software problem!

Just some of my research on this:

Prior to 2014 the Spyder used a fixed code DESS key system. That is each key has a unique ID programmed into it that cannot be changed. The chip used in these keys is a T5 chip and each chip comes with a unique ID from the chip maker. You add a keys ID to the Spyder using a master key and you can add up to 4. These keys can be cloned. What is interesting here is BRP was behind in the technology using the T5 chip. Most car makers abandon fixed chip keys in about 2006. Spyder came out in 2008... So BRP was using pretty old technology at launch of the Spyder.

Since then two other technologies came out.

Rolling code:
In basic principle - The car actually writes to the key the next code mathematically calculated by the car. This equation is different for each car. Thus the car wont start unless the key and the car matches the same code. Every time the car is started, it rolls the code and writes it to the key. The idea is to keep you from cloning the key since the clone will have the last code in it so if you use your original key the clone wont work the next time. But some have found ways to clone these keys now.

Crypto code:
The car has a encryption code (a formula) in it. Every car has a unique formula. They keys are programmed with the same encryption formula. When the key is read by the car, the encryption formula must match and then the ID of the key is decoded and provided to the car. In other words, you cannot read the ID of the key without it being decrypted using the cars unique encryption formula. Also the key is not written to by the car each time like with the rolling code so the key never changes. Because of the encryption, the ID of the key cannot be read by a key cloning device since it doesn't know the encryption to read the ID. (actually I have read some have cracked this so they can be cloned today).

Obviously BRP is using one of these technologies in the 2014 and up.

Based on this issue I am betting is it the rolling code and I bet this is a software issue not hardware.
What I think is happening is either there maybe a software glitch and the key is not getting reprogrammed it's new rolling code, or if it is, they system is not correctly keeping the new code. Thus the key and the system now have a different code. I bet there is something in the software to resolve when this happens that maybe has a time out on attempts to get the code to match. This is buggy and after a few code not matched errors, it locks you out. This is why I think some get past the DESS error and some get stuck to see a dealer.

Now I am not saying all the DESS problems are a software bug. I am sure some were hardware. But I bet a lot of the problems is a bug causing a key to no longer match the Spyder.

Time will tell but this is my theory.

Bob

[SAR41]

I have a 2014 RT-Ltd
Started seeing the DESS code this summer. Only showed up once or twice a week. It always started after flipping switch back and forth a few times. Got lucky and never left me stranded. Got bike in for 3000 mile service and to fix this problem. I let them know what I had been reading about the DESS code problem and how the module seemed to be changed out most of the time. What I was told was that they were able to duplicate the problem at the shop. The tech worked on it for a long time. Ended up just changing the antenna out (I received new keys). I've had it back about 1 month so far and have not had a problem yet. But only put about 700 miles on it since it's been fixed. We had our first snow yesterday so I'm pretty sure I wont be getting much more riding in again till next summer. Just have to wait till next year and see what happens.

[Deanna777]

I am going to bet this is a software problem!

Just some of my research on this:

Prior to 2014 the Spyder used a fixed code DESS key system. That is each key has a unique ID programmed into it that cannot be changed. The chip used in these keys is a T5 chip and each chip comes with a unique ID from the chip maker. You add a keys ID to the Spyder using a master key and you can add up to 4. These keys can be cloned. What is interesting here is BRP was behind in the technology using the T5 chip. Most car makers abandon fixed chip keys in about 2006. Spyder came out in 2008... So BRP was using pretty old technology at launch of the Spyder.

Since then two other technologies came out.

Rolling code:
In basic principle - The car actually writes to the key the next code mathematically calculated by the car. This equation is different for each car. Thus the car wont start unless the key and the car matches the same code. Every time the car is started, it rolls the code and writes it to the key. The idea is to keep you from cloning the key since the clone will have the last code in it so if you use your original key the clone wont work the next time. But some have found ways to clone these keys now.

Crypto code:
The car has a encryption code (a formula) in it. Every car has a unique formula. They keys are programmed with the same encryption formula. When the key is read by the car, the encryption formula must match and then the ID of the key is decoded and provided to the car. In other words, you cannot read the ID of the key without it being decrypted using the cars unique encryption formula. Also the key is not written to by the car each time like with the rolling code so the key never changes. Because of the encryption, the ID of the key cannot be read by a key cloning device since it doesn't know the encryption to read the ID. (actually I have read some have cracked this so they can be cloned today).

Obviously BRP is using one of these technologies in the 2014 and up.

Based on this issue I am betting is it the rolling code and I bet this is a software issue not hardware.
What I think is happening is either there maybe a software glitch and the key is not getting reprogrammed it's new rolling code, or if it is, they system is not correctly keeping the new code. Thus the key and the system now have a different code. I bet there is something in the software to resolve when this happens that maybe has a time out on attempts to get the code to match. This is buggy and after a few code not matched errors, it locks you out. This is why I think some get past the DESS error and some get stuck to see a dealer.

Now I am not saying all the DESS problems are a software bug. I am sure some were hardware. But I bet a lot of the problems is a bug causing a key to no longer match the Spyder.

Time will tell but this is my theory.

Bob

Bob, I had both keys reprogrammed the 2nd time that I got the D.E.S.S key code, and my can-am dealership replaced the D.E.S.S module, and the switch. Deanna

[finless]

Bob, I had both keys reprogrammed the 2nd time that I got the D.E.S.S key code, and my can-am dealership replaced the D.E.S.S module, and the switch. Deanna

As I said, I was not claiming ALL the issues are software. Glad that took care of you.
But as you have seen even people that have had what you had done, had problems again. This is why I think there is more than one problem going on here. Yes some hardware issue but I also think there are some software issues too. This is probably why BRP is having a hard time getting this resolved.

Ended up just changing the antenna out (I received new keys).

As I showed above from the service manual. For 2014/15 the antenna cannot be replaced and thus why you got new keys as they had to replace the entire switch.

Why BRP went this way requiring the switch to be change I will never understand.

Bob

[spy_der_man]

Wow!!! This is all a bit scary!! I will be replacing my DESS Module and ignition next Friday. I have a 2012 RS SM5. I hope I don't have the same problem.....

[Deanna777]

I have a 2014 RT-Ltd
Started seeing the DESS code this summer. Only showed up once or twice a week. It always started after flipping switch back and forth a few times. Got lucky and never left me stranded. Got bike in for 3000 mile service and to fix this problem. I let them know what I had been reading about the DESS code problem and how the module seemed to be changed out most of the time. What I was told was that they were able to duplicate the problem at the shop. The tech worked on it for a long time. Ended up just changing the antenna out (I received new keys). I've had it back about 1 month so far and have not had a problem yet. But only put about 700 miles on it since it's been fixed. We had our first snow yesterday so I'm pretty sure I wont be getting much more riding in again till next summer. Just have to wait till next year and see what happens.

If you get the D.E.S.S. error again, take a photo, and take the pic to your can-am dealership, and have your can-am dealership open up a case with BRP. The D.E.S.S. module is covered under warranty. Do you have any warranty left on your spyder? Get your keys reprogrammed, and get your switch replaced. When you get a chance read post # 1. Keep us postedwhat happens.

Deanna

[Deanna777]

Wow!!! This is all a bit scary!! I will be replacing my DESS Module and ignition next Friday. I have a 2012 RS SM5. I hope I don't have the same problem.....

I had a 2012RT-SE5 and I did not get the D.E.S.S. error. BRP must get this problem fixed. Have your can-am dealership open up a case with BRP.

Take a picture of the D.E.S.S error and show it to your can-am dealership. Keep this thread going. Deanna

[gypsy_100]

Hot off the press. BRP has updated their on-line manuals for 2016. They now show 710004916 as the DESS module for 2016 RT's. The ignition switch remains 710004277 as it was for 2015 models. However, the news is that BRP now shows the previous DESS modules for earlier years as unavailable -- 710004190 for 2014's and 710004241 for 2015's -- both unavailable.

Here's the good part: ProCaliber now shows the 2016 DESS module #710004916 as the upgraded replacement for prior year 2014 and 2015 RT's. It replaces the "unavailable" 710004190 (upgraded from 710003595 quite a while ago) and 710004241. The ignition switch remains 710004413 for 2014 (upgraded from 710003598 quite some time ago); 710004277 for 2015. Bottom line:

DESS Modules:
710004916 for all 1330 RT's -- 2014, 2015, 2016

Ignition Switch:
710004413 for 2014 RT's
710004277 for 2015 and 2016 RT's

Let's hope with this new 2016 DESS 4916 they got it right.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thanks for the up-date and for those who are not aware : if you register on the PROCALIBER.COM site ( for free ) all the posted parts prices are discounted.................and shipped for free if the order is ( $ 90.00 plus ) .......Mike

[Deanna777]

Thanks for new Dess module part number update, and the Switch part number update. Deanna