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  1. #326
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default SOME ANSWERS

    Blacklightening --- once this occurs, it is the beginning --- it does not self-heal , it will eventually FAIL....Good Luck JHeck --- If your issue has to do with the signal between the Key and the ignition switch the transponder should not be able to get the signal if the Key is in the rear trunk --- it's too far away.........If your issue is the MODULE like I told Blacklightening ----it doesn't heal itself..................and to ALL it appears the new 2016 MODULES are having the same issues ........ There really needs to be a way to de-activate this until the problem has a permanent FIX ......Of course if someone riding a Spyder gets KILLED because this module shut the Spyder off while they were driving it and it can be PROVEN .......then the NHTSA (?) will again put BRP's feet to the FIRE and force them to ......like the 2013 HEAT issue.............WAKE UP BRP ...............sorry for the RANT - Steve ....Mike

  2. #327
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcbracing View Post
    I will definitely take a picture this time. We bought the Spyder brand new in March. It had been sitting on the lot for a while. Warranty coverage started in March.

    The problem actually just started when I carried both keys to Spyderfest (figured it was better to have both on me, in different locations, then to have one of them 250 miles away). I think I may have caused the issue by confusing the DESS module with both keys. Going to put one back in the house and see if it comes back.

    Thanks for all the research and part numbers. It will help if I have to take it back to the dealer. This dealer only does a few Spyders and mostly does crotch rockets.
    You are welcome for the research and the part numbers. Post on this thread what you find out @ your dealership.

    What is your spyder model?

    What year is your Spyder?

    Good Luck!
    Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

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  3. #328
    Registered Users tcbracing's Avatar
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    2014 RSS


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #329
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklightning View Post
    I got the D.E.S.S. code error on mine, and have been able to get around. But I had it checked at my last service and they ordered the replacement part. My question is, will this issue come up again with the new part, and is there a certain part number that I need to look out for? Now when my bike gets the error, I am able to wait about a minute or less, and reinsert the key in the opposite direction and I am good to go. I don't want to get it replaced and end up with an even worse problem.

    Thanks,

    Keith

    PS, I have had this error for over a year and it is actually not too much of a problem, YET. Will it get worse with time? Right now I also take both keys if I am going on a multi day trip.
    Keith, The D.E.S.S. Error will happen again, and like Mike (blueknight911) said " it is only the beginning". Get the D.E.S.S. Module and the ignition switch replaced, and they are both UNDER WARRANTY.


    The second time I had the D.E.S.S. module/switch ( on Aug. 28,2015) replaced the dealership used part # 710004190( D.E.S.S. Module) and the ignition switch ( part # 710004413) and I have not had the D.E.S.S. error show up. The mileage when I had the second D.E.S.S. Module replaced was: 8,740.


    When I had the first D.E.S.S Module replaced was: 6,994 on July, 14,2015. I have good luck with part # 710004190( D.E.S.S Module)

    Deanna


    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

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  5. #330
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jheck View Post
    (The problem actually just started when I carried both keys to Spyderfest (figured it was better to have both on me, in different locations, then to have one of them 250 miles away). I think I may have caused the issue by confusing the DESS module with both keys. Going to put one back in the house and see if it comes back.)

    what about carrying your extra key in a credit card singal blocking pouch? It will keep the singal of the extra key blocked so it should not confuse the computer. Just an idea. I think I will try it. Bed bath and beyond has them for 10 bucks. Worth a try.
    http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/BedB...=2000&qlt=50,1
    I haven't had the problem yet, but can't say that it is'nt always in the back of my mind when I am out.
    Jheck, I have not heard of anyone trying the " Credit Card signal blocking pouch" Keep us posted.

    I got the following info. from my dealership " Problem: Intermittently, the ignition key may not be recognized causing the unit not to start. The D.E.S.S. ERROR message will be displayed in the cluster".

    Also, I got an email from my dealership ( from a BRP tech) saying "We have had cases where a cell phone or magnetic card, placed near the ignition switch cause this. This includes any device that may emit some type of frequency".

    Technical Explanation: When the D.E.S.S. module sends its signal to the antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna is too strong and the key chip is saturated. The saturation changes the data transmitted back to the D.E.S.S module causing a bad lecture of the key chip".
    Deanna
    Last edited by Deanna777; 05-04-2016 at 05:39 PM.
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

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  6. #331
    Active Member Jheck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna777 View Post


    I got the following info. from my dealership " Problem: Intermittently, the ignition key may not be recognized causing the unit not to start. The D.E.S.S. ERROR message will be displayed in the cluster".

    Also, I got an email from my dealership ( from a BRP tech) saying "We have had cases where a cell phone or magnetic card, placed near the ignition switch cause this. This includes any device that may emit some type of frequency".

    Deanna
    Is this D.E.S.S. System just for security reasons? Or what else does it do? The second part of your post,is why I thought of the credit card holder for the second key. Like I said it hasen't happened to me yet, but for 10 bucks why not be a little pro-active.

  7. #332
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

    It's to bad you don't look for all the ANSWERS ....................However in this area you arn't alone

  8. #333
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jheck View Post
    Is this D.E.S.S. System just for security reasons? Or what else does it do? The second part of your post,is why I thought of the credit card holder for the second key. Like I said it hasen't happened to me yet, but for 10 bucks why not be a little pro-active.
    Yes, the D.E.S.S. is for security reasons. Post what happens if you get the Credit Card holder.
    Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

    BRP Semi-Rigid Rear Side Cargo Travel Bags
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  9. #334
    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna777 View Post
    Keith, The D.E.S.S. Error will happen again, and like Mike (blueknight911) said " it is only the beginning". Get the D.E.S.S. Module and the ignition switch replaced, and they are both UNDER WARRANTY.


    The second time I had the D.E.S.S. module/switch ( on Aug. 28,2015) replaced the dealership used part # 710004190( D.E.S.S. Module) and the ignition switch ( part # 710004413) and I have not had the D.E.S.S. error show up. The mileage when I had the second D.E.S.S. Module replaced was: 8,740.


    When I had the first D.E.S.S Module replaced was: 6,994 on July, 14,2015. I have good luck with part # 710004190( D.E.S.S Module)

    Deanna


    Thanks Deanna. This is what I was hoping for (actual part numbers). Yes, I realize that the issue will continue, but I have 2 1/2 years left on the warranty and just was wondering if they would finally get it corrected. I will be getting it replaced as soon as I can get a good week where work slows down.

    Thanks Again,

    Keith Cash

  10. #335
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default your D.E.S.S. CONCERNS

    Keith - I'm so glad Deanna could solve your issue ................. however !!!!!!!!

  11. #336
    Active Member Mike Ard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna777 View Post
    Jheck, I have not heard of anyone trying the " Credit Card signal blocking pouch" Keep us posted.

    I got the following info. from my dealership " Problem: Intermittently, the ignition key may not be recognized causing the unit not to start. The D.E.S.S. ERROR message will be displayed in the cluster".

    Also, I got an email from my dealership ( from a BRP tech) saying "We have had cases where a cell phone or magnetic card, placed near the ignition switch cause this. This includes any device that may emit some type of frequency".

    Technical Explanation: When the D.E.S.S. module sends its signal to the antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna is too strong and the key chip is saturated. The saturation changes the data transmitted back to the D.E.S.S module causing a bad lecture of the key chip".
    Deanna

    Not wanting to put to fine point on this but I am not buying the radio frequency explanation. The last 2 times my f3 did the bad key error I did not have my cell phone or anything that created radio frequencies. Add to this my jeep and FRS keys are on the same key ring and I have never had any problems.

    Since the D.E.S.S. Module was replaced I have had no problem even with my car key ring in my pocket.

  12. #337
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Ard View Post
    Not wanting to put to fine point on this but I am not buying the radio frequency explanation. The last 2 times my f3 did the bad key error I did not have my cell phone or anything that created radio frequencies. Add to this my jeep and FRS keys are on the same key ring and I have never had any problems.

    Since the D.E.S.S. Module was replaced I have had no problem even with my car key ring in my pocket.
    Mike Ard, I got the "Technical Explanation info" from my dealership on paper: titled Roadster 2014-015 D.E.S.S. Error Displayed In Cluster_ 000104494_TST61Y014S10_en.

    I have had the D.E.S.S. Module( replaced on July 14,2015,replaced again on Aug. 28,2015 + Switch replaced once on Aug.28,2015) and I have not had any problems since Aug. 28th, 2015. I keep both of my can-am keys on the same key ring.

    I hope you have continued success since you have had the D.E.S.S. module replaced.
    Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

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  13. #338
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    I find it strange that there are 2 "competing" threads on this topic. Some owners are getting "blown off" by BRP, while a few have had some success at getting there problem solved, at least temporarily.
    2015 Pearl White RT Limited

  14. #339
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Mac View Post
    Looks like BRP has superseded 710004190 DESS with a new number 710004916
    Sam Mac, I have the 710004190 ( D.E.S.S. module) and I have not had the D.E.S.S. Error show-up. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

    BRP Semi-Rigid Rear Side Cargo Travel Bags
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    painted Dashboard+ GPS plug-in
    BRP Half Cover
    WRAPMYSPYDER.COM Air Dam Web Decal Black Reflective
    General Altimax RT 43 Rear tire
    BRP Full cover
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  15. #340
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
    I find it strange that there are 2 "competing" threads on this topic. Some owners are getting "blown off" by BRP, while a few have had some success at getting there problem solved, at least temporarily.
    This is the longest D.E.S.S. Thread ( I started it,) 14 pages and counting! With some excellent ideas, and suggestions to fix the problem, and take the info to your can-am dealerships. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

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  16. #341
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default A$$ KISSING

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Mac View Post
    Dee

    I wish you the best. I'm done with BRP even though I have never had a problem I just don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling that BRP is behind the owners so my 2014 RTL is for sale. I'm probably going to get a Jap 2 wheeler. Maybe I'm over reacting but BRP can kiss my A$$.
    I know how you feel and you have my best wishes Sam.......You fought the good fight and did what you needed to do. Many have said this already, if BRP doesn't WAKE THE H*LL UP ON THIS , you may be the First but won't be the Last.......The BIG Party BRP is planning in 2017 just may turn out to be ENTIRELY different than what they had in mind .......TAR & FEATHERS are not considered as lethal weapons .......... JMHO .........Mike

  17. #342
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    Default Just Curious

    I have not taken the time or effort to data mine all the posts on this subject(going on 24 pages total and growing)
    1.Is this DESS error ONLY happening on '14-'16 SE6 trannys???? For those of us in this demographic, is it just a matter of time before we get this issue???
    2. is the DESS error only happening on US Spyders, or is this a worldwide problem??????
    3. For discussion purposes, if there are 500 affected Spyders(10/state), why is BRP not working on a definative fix(solution, or the means to disable the "system"), or respinding to this uproar?????
    I'm a first time Spyder owner, and you see, I feel that I'm in the crosshairs.
    Mike
    Last edited by MikeT; 05-14-2016 at 08:22 AM.
    2015 Pearl White RT Limited

  18. #343
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default POSSIBLE ANSWERS

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
    I have not taken the time or effort to data mine all the posts on this subject(going on 20 pages total and growing)
    1.Is this DESS error ONLY happening on '14-'16 SE6 trannys???? For those of us in this demographic, is it just a matter of time before we get this issue???
    2. is the DESS error only happening on US Spyders, or is this a worldwide problem??????
    3. For discussion purposes, if there are 500 affected Spyders(10/state), why is BRP not working on a definative fix(solution, or the means to disable the "system"), or respinding to this uproar?????
    I'm a first time Spyder owner, and you see, I feel that I'm in the crosshairs.
    Mike
    #1.- Yes, the 14 thru 16 models ( mostly RT's ) & it has nothing to do with " Tranny's "................................................. ....... #2.- No info on this .................................................. .................................................. ................................................. #3.- This question has been dis-cussed to death......Does anyone know why BRP doesn't respond to problems ????....They still haven't solved the ARM breaking on the RT Windshields and this has been going on for 5 years ........Mike

  19. #344
    Registered Users Pineywoods36's Avatar
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    OK I just read all 15 pages of this thread and I am not looking to jynks myself here as I have a 2014 with 6500 miles on it and have not seen the D.E.S.S. error. Has anyone had an issue once they changed to the new model D.E.S.S 71004916. I like to be proactive and from all the issues seen here there is obvioulsy an issue that has certian odds of happening and if replacing the $100.00 module would prevent me from ending up stranded who knows where I will just replace the module.

    The next question is that just replacing the D.E.S.S module does not require replacing keys is this true?

    I work in the security industry and the D.E.S.S works off the same type of technology as card access cards (not the magnetic strip kind) the card (key) has an antenna or chip in it with a programmed code and the reader excites or energizes the chip reading the encoded number and allowing access, the biggest problems we see with this technology is something effects the chip RF/MF or the likes, or the signal power from the reader is not strong enough. Sure you could get a broken antenna if the card is bent or someting to that effect. If you stay at a hotel and they tell you not to put your room card in the same pocket as your phone it is because the RF from the phone can effect the antenna.

    I am wondering what the rate of falure is and if it is great enough why a recall is not issued. Maybe we will find out in 2017....... in the mean time how many of us Ryders will end up stranded?

    And if this happens to me and I pray not I will take a picture
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  20. #345
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Mac View Post
    Dee

    I wish you the best. I'm done with BRP even though I have never had a problem I just don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling that BRP is behind the owners so my 2014 RTL is for sale. I'm probably going to get a Jap 2 wheeler. Maybe I'm over reacting but BRP can kiss my A$$.
    Thanks, and If do get the D.E.S.S error I will post on this thread, stay tuned. Sorry to hear that you are done with BRP. Good luck on finding a home for your 2014RTL. Will you still be on this site? Good Luck with the jap 2 wheeler. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

    BRP Semi-Rigid Rear Side Cargo Travel Bags
    BRP Glove Box Organizer
    Ron-rnet Laser Alignment
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    painted Dashboard+ GPS plug-in
    BRP Half Cover
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  21. #346
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pineywoods36 View Post
    OK I just read all 15 pages of this thread and I am not looking to jynks myself here as I have a 2014 with 6500 miles on it and have not seen the D.E.S.S. error. Has anyone had an issue once they changed to the new model D.E.S.S 71004916. I like to be proactive and from all the issues seen here there is obvioulsy an issue that has certian odds of happening and if replacing the $100.00 module would prevent me from ending up stranded who knows where I will just replace the module.

    The next question is that just replacing the D.E.S.S module does not require replacing keys is this true?

    I work in the security industry and the D.E.S.S works off the same type of technology as card access cards (not the magnetic strip kind) the card (key) has an antenna or chip in it with a programmed code and the reader excites or energizes the chip reading the encoded number and allowing access, the biggest problems we see with this technology is something effects the chip RF/MF or the likes, or the signal power from the reader is not strong enough. Sure you could get a broken antenna if the card is bent or someting to that effect. If you stay at a hotel and they tell you not to put your room card in the same pocket as your phone it is because the RF from the phone can effect the antenna.

    I am wondering what the rate of falure is and if it is great enough why a recall is not issued. Maybe we will find out in 2017....... in the mean time how many of us Ryders will end up stranded?

    And if this happens to me and I pray not I will take a picture
    pineywoods36, I have not seen/read of anyone who has the D.E.S.S. module ( part # 71004916)replaced have any problems, I know that ( mike blueknight911 has the D.E.S.S. module 71004916) send him a pm and ask.


    I had the D.E.S.S module replaced twice ( on July 14,2015 and on Aug. 28th 2015) part # 710004190.

    On Aug. 28th I had the switch ( part # 710004413) and my can-am dealership reprogrammed my keys. I got the following info from my dealership" Solution Replace the D.E.S.S. module. Program the keys using the B.U.D.S. referring to the 2014 RT shop manual section digitally Encoded Security System( D.E.S.S). Also,
    technical Explanation: "When the D.E.S.S module sends its signal to the antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna is too strong and the key chip is saturated. This saturation changes the data transmitted back the D.E.S.S module causing a bad lecture of the key chip."

    Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

    BRP Semi-Rigid Rear Side Cargo Travel Bags
    BRP Glove Box Organizer
    Ron-rnet Laser Alignment
    TRIC-LED Spyderpockets
    STV Black Carbon Fiber Windshield Blackout
    WRAPMYSPYDER.COM Sceptor Kit Reflective Decals-Orange
    painted Dashboard+ GPS plug-in
    BRP Half Cover
    WRAPMYSPYDER.COM Air Dam Web Decal Black Reflective
    General Altimax RT 43 Rear tire
    BRP Full cover
    TRIC-LEDS Front Fender Marker Lights & Saddlebag Markers Lights





  22. #347
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deanna777 View Post
    pineywoods36, I have not seen/read of anyone who has the D.E.S.S. module ( part # 71004916)replaced have any problems, I know that ( mike blueknight911 has the D.E.S.S. module 71004916) send him a pm and ask.


    I had the D.E.S.S module replaced twice ( on July 14,2015 and on Aug. 28th 2015) part # 710004190.

    On Aug. 28th I had the switch ( part # 710004413) and my can-am dealership reprogrammed my keys. I got the following info from my dealership" Solution Replace the D.E.S.S. module. Program the keys using the B.U.D.S. referring to the 2014 RT shop manual section digitally Encoded Security System( D.E.S.S). Also,
    technical Explanation: "When the D.E.S.S module sends its signal to the antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna is too strong and the key chip is saturated. This saturation changes the data transmitted back the D.E.S.S module causing a bad lecture of the key chip."

    Deanna
    We had the 71004916 module installed on 1/4/16 at 4400 miles after several no start DESS dash warnings. Now at 5500 miles and we have had one no start with the DESS warning on screen. In all incidences we removed the key and walked about 30 ft away and it restated. Bike was just at same dealer for service (new rear tire needed at 5500 miles ) and BUDS showed no codes.
    2014 RT-S SE6 Circuit Yellow

  23. #348
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumble_B View Post
    We had the 71004916 module installed on 1/4/16 at 4400 miles after several no start DESS dash warnings. Now at 5500 miles and we have had one no start with the DESS warning on screen. In all incidences we removed the key and walked about 30 ft away and it restated. Bike was just at same dealer for service (new rear tire needed at 5500 miles ) and BUDS showed no codes.
    Bumble_B, I hope you don't get any more of the No start with the D.E.S.S. warning on your spyder screen,with the new module ( part# 71004916).


    I have the part # 71004190 ( D.E.S.S module/ on July 14, 2015 and on Aug. 28th, 2015 Switch 71004413 replaced at the same time) on my 2014RTS-SE6 and I have not had the D.E.S.S. error show up. If I do I will post.

    What year is your spyder?

    Which spyder model you have?
    Deanna

    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I am a Happy Spyder Owner!

    BRP Semi-Rigid Rear Side Cargo Travel Bags
    BRP Glove Box Organizer
    Ron-rnet Laser Alignment
    TRIC-LED Spyderpockets
    STV Black Carbon Fiber Windshield Blackout
    WRAPMYSPYDER.COM Sceptor Kit Reflective Decals-Orange
    painted Dashboard+ GPS plug-in
    BRP Half Cover
    WRAPMYSPYDER.COM Air Dam Web Decal Black Reflective
    General Altimax RT 43 Rear tire
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    TRIC-LEDS Front Fender Marker Lights & Saddlebag Markers Lights





  24. #349
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    Default 4916 module

    I also have the 4916 module...It was replaced 11/9/15...800 miles ago...Had the DESS error 3 times in the same day the last time I rode it...BRP said its a RFE problem and its my problem and I'm the only one with the 4916 module with the problem...WRONG...

  25. #350
    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Well, I had a wonderful 472 mile ride today. On the way home, I had the DESS error again. I simply took the key out, flipped it, and everything was fine. I still am going to get the replacement done, but these errors are not enough for me to give up on my spyer yet. I think what really needs to be posted is the "in the field fix" that can be done. I have had the error probably no less than 25-30 in the past year (my first time was the first sunday after Easter 2015) I remember that day, because I was going to drive the bike to church that morning, but after it wouldn't crank, I drove my mustang instead. On the way out I ran over one of the ferrel kittens that I was adopting (but that is another sad story). When I got home, I read on this site (somewhere) that the key was to discharge the system. This was done by disconnecting the hot cable and touching the negative post on the battery. After connecting everything backup, I was good. As I stated, I have had the situation to happen about 25-30 more times, but never had to discharge the system again, simply flip the key and possibly wait 10 minutes in my worst case. Now I just keep the tools on the bike to disconnect the battery, and also keep both keys if going further than 200 miles from home.
    BTW, my first time happened at about 7k miles, now I have almost 14k miles on my 2014 RT SM6.

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