Aimsoil

[MikeinGA]

How many miles do you wait to you start using Aimsol 10W-40 Advanced Synthetic Motorcycle Oil. 6,000 or 9,000 or 12,000 miles? To make sure all the moving parts like rings and the gears are seated in.

Mike

[IGETAROUND]

Is it needed to wait for run in on motor or can you change to the synthetic on first oil change?? Don't they come from BRP with synthetic in them???

[CyncySpyder]

[fastfraser]

Is it needed to wait for run in on motor or can you change to the synthetic on first oil change?? Don't they come from BRP with synthetic in them???

BRP uses a blend , not sure how much synthetic is in the blend But for me a full synthetic is the way to go as long as it meets specs .

[boborgera]

The first year or so [08/09] the Spyder came from the factory with full Syn, Then when people started to complain about the high cost of full Syn they brp went to a blend.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

UP HERE IN VERMONT...WE GO DIRECTLY TO THE MAPLE SYRUP..GRADE A FANCY..AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.............MIKE

[wyliec]

UP HERE IN VERMONT...WE GO DIRECTLY TO THE MAPLE SYRUP..GRADE A FANCY..AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.............MIKE

[BajaRon]

It isn't necessary to wait for Amsoil for a factory motor. The motors are pretty much broken in and seated when they leave the assembly line for several reasons.

1- It isn't safe to trust the owner to do it correctly
2- Allows full engine testing in all modes including operation under load.

So by the time you are looking at a 600 mile service you're good to go with Amsoil.

In the old days engines came off the assembly line having only been driven onto and off of the transport vehicle. Since Amsoil pretty much halts all metal to metal contact (and wear) the rings and other compontents would never seat properly so you wanted to wait before using it. That is no longer true or necessary.

[pwilbarger]

It isn't necessary to wait for Amsoil for a factory motor. The motors are pretty much broken in and seated when they leave the assembly line for several reasons.

1- It isn't safe to trust the owner to do it correctly
2- Allows full engine testing in all modes including operation under load.

So by the time you are looking at a 600 mile service you're good to go with Amsoil.

In the old days engines came off the assembly line having only been driven onto and off of the transport vehicle. Since Amsoil pretty much halts all metal to metal contact (and wear) the rings and other compontents would never seat properly so you wanted to wait before using it. That is no longer true or necessary.

I think that's true for most engines today but according to a friend of mine who has a BMW, his manual recommends not to use synthetic before 15k.


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[Sunshyn]

I've been reading the posts about changing oil using Amsoil. My 2008 GS SE5 will soon have 3K miles on it. The fella I bought this from had all the scheduled work done, including the 600 mile oil change. It had 1,500 miles on it when I bought it last year. I hope to order my filter kit from BAJARON. Is there a vender on here selling the Amsoil IF it is what I should use. (???) A mechanic friend of mine is going to change the oil for me AND change the Y gaskets. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what tools he will need to bring with him, when he drives down here to the Gulf from Tennessee. Also, without one of those big lifts like some I've seen on here for working on Spyders, how would a person get it up off the floor and keep it stable to work on? Thank you in advance for information about needed tools and oil for 3K oil change. Sandy aka Sunshyn

[HntngTrout]

I've been reading the posts about changing oil using Amsoil. My 2008 GS SE5 will soon have 3K miles on it. The fella I bought this from had all the scheduled work done, including the 600 mile oil change. It had 1,500 miles on it when I bought it last year. I hope to order my filter kit from BAJARON. Is there a vender on here selling the Amsoil IF it is what I should use. (???) A mechanic friend of mine is going to change the oil for me AND change the Y gaskets. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what tools he will need to bring with him, when he drives down here to the Gulf from Tennessee. Also, without one of those big lifts like some I've seen on here for working on Spyders, how would a person get it up off the floor and keep it stable to work on? Thank you in advance for information about needed tools and oil for 3K oil change. Sandy aka Sunshyn

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[BajaRon]

I think that's true for most engines today but according to a friend of mine who has a BMW, his manual recommends not to use synthetic before 15k.


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That is very strange. I've know machinest's that build motors for everything from passenger cars to race cars and they've told me that an engine that isn't broken in and seated by 500 miles never will. You actually need to drive a fresh engine hard, in a specific manner to get maximum seal and life from it. Some race engine builders say it's all over at about 200 miles.

I sure would not wait 15k to use oil that will keep your engine from wearing. I can't imagine what BMW is thinking on this one. 1.5k is way more than enough miles on any modern engine.

Want more? Check this out!

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[Texmac1011]

I've been reading the posts about changing oil using Amsoil. My 2008 GS SE5 will soon have 3K miles on it. The fella I bought this from had all the scheduled work done, including the 600 mile oil change. It had 1,500 miles on it when I bought it last year. I hope to order my filter kit from BAJARON. Is there a vender on here selling the Amsoil IF it is what I should use. (???) A mechanic friend of mine is going to change the oil for me AND change the Y gaskets. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what tools he will need to bring with him, when he drives down here to the Gulf from Tennessee. Also, without one of those big lifts like some I've seen on here for working on Spyders, how would a person get it up off the floor and keep it stable to work on? Thank you in advance for information about needed tools and oil for 3K oil change. Sandy aka Sunshyn

You don't need much in the way of tools. I don't know the sizes from memory, but metric sockets, allen wrench (if you still have the original drain plugs) and a torx screwdriver for the body panels should get it done, along with the always needed hammer, crescent wrench, channel locks, beer, original cuss words, etc. If/when you get the plugs out, I recommend replacing them with plugs from www.goldplug.com or some place similar.

Although it gives you more room, you don't have to lift the bike to do this work. Do yourself a favor and replace the 2 upper Y gaskets with the Honda replacements.

[Trickie Dick]

I've been reading the posts about changing oil using Amsoil. My 2008 GS SE5 will soon have 3K miles on it. The fella I bought this from had all the scheduled work done, including the 600 mile oil change. It had 1,500 miles on it when I bought it last year. I hope to order my filter kit from BAJARON. Is there a vender on here selling the Amsoil IF it is what I should use. (???) A mechanic friend of mine is going to change the oil for me AND change the Y gaskets. Would someone be kind enough to tell me what tools he will need to bring with him, when he drives down here to the Gulf from Tennessee. Also, without one of those big lifts like some I've seen on here for working on Spyders, how would a person get it up off the floor and keep it stable to work on? Thank you in advance for information about needed tools and oil for 3K oil change. Sandy aka Sunshyn

Assuming you have the stock plugs, He will need a 6mm allen head socket to remove the plugs on the oil tank and crankcase. He will need a 5mm allen socket to use on the filter(s). A torex will fit in the plugs but will eventually strip the heads on the plugs. Use an allen.
He should also bring a T30(torex) to remove the body panels.
I use a car jack to lift my spyder but I have a set of jack stands for stability. You do not have to lift the spyder to change the oil. The instructions for changing the oil are in the owners manual.

[cjackg]

That is very strange. I've know machinest's that build motors for everything from passenger cars to race cars and they've told me that an engine that isn't broken in and seated by 500 miles never will. You actually need to drive a fresh engine hard, in a specific manner to get maximum seal and life from it. Some race engine builders say it's all over at about 200 miles.

I sure would not wait 15k to use oil that will keep your engine from wearing. I can't imagine what BMW is thinking on this one. 1.5k is way more than enough miles on any modern engine.

Want more? Check this out!
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

That link has some very interesting info that I wish I had read before breaking in a new engine several times in the past. but, note he also recommends staying away from synthetics for an initial period.

"while about 80% of the ring sealing takes place in the first hour of running the engine, the last 20% of the process takes a longer time. Street riding isn't a controlled environment, so most of the mileage may not be in "ring loading mode". Synthetic oil is so slippery that it actually "arrests" the break in process before the rings can seal completely. I've had a few customers who switched to synthetic oil too soon, and the rings never sealed properly no matter how hard they rode. Taking a new engine apart to re - ring it is the last thing anyone wants to do, so I recommend a lot of mileage before switching to synthetic. It's really a "better safe than sorry" situation."

[BajaRon]

That link has some very interesting info that I wish I had read before breaking in a new engine several times in the past. but, note he also recommends staying away from synthetics for an initial period.

Absolutely, because he is starting with a brand new, fresh engine. Not one that has been broken in at the factory like our Rotax.

"while about 80% of the ring sealing takes place in the first hour of running the engine, the last 20% of the process takes a longer time. Street riding isn't a controlled environment, so most of the mileage may not be in "ring loading mode". Synthetic oil is so slippery that it actually "arrests" the break in process before the rings can seal completely. I've had a few customers who switched to synthetic oil too soon, and the rings never sealed properly no matter how hard they rode. Taking a new engine apart to re - ring it is the last thing anyone wants to do, so I recommend a lot of mileage before switching to synthetic. It's really a "better safe than sorry" situation."

He never defines 'A Lot' but considering that he says 80% of the job is done in the 1st hour (that's 70 miles at freeway speeds), you'd think that by 1,000 miles (which is nearly 15 times what it took to get 80%) would be enough. But people should wait until they are comfortable with the idea.

I switched at less than 1,000 miles and I've had no issues. I use a little oil between my 5,000 mile change intervals but less than others that I've talked to who use BRP or comperable oil and change at 3,000 miles.

And, though the BRP Full Synthetic oil is not in the same league with Amsoil, you have to wonder, if there were break in issues, why did the Spyder originally come with full synthetic oil right out of the crate?

[NancysToy]

.....you have to wonder, if there were break in issues, why did the Spyder originally come with full synthetic oil right out of the crate?

.....and why do they no longer? Since BRP still sells a full synthetic oil, the change may not have been due to cost...at least not entirely.

OK, I have avoided adding fuel to this fire long enough. I will add a couple of things to further muddy the waters.

1. The quoted article discusses a honed cross-hatch pattern in the cylinder. It should be noted, that with today's cylinders, that finish is microscopic! It appears as a mirror finish to the naked eye. That may actually be a vote on the side of non-full synthetic break-in oils. Harder to smooth out the tiny stuff with a slippery oil.

2. The Spyder uses Nicasil plated cylinders...very smooth, very hard, and very slippery. These just plain don't wear down like iron. Only the rings themselves will wear to adjust...if that. I guess that's a vote on the side of "the type of oil doesn't matter."

3. The Spyder fuel mileage improves after a few thousand miles in most cases. To me that indicates it is finally getting good cylinder sealing. Count this vote as one for avoiding full synthetics for a while.

4. Most modern engines use moly filled rings. The soft molybdenum forms almost instantly to the cylinder wall. Another vote on the side of "use anything that rings your bell."

So, is that muddy enough? I personally believe in avoiding the really slippery stuff during break-in...unless the rigors of the application demand some of the other qualities of the full syns. Once the engine is broken in, I am a firm believer in full synthetics. That is just me. The real important thing is to use a quality oil, meeting or exceeding the manufacturers specs, and change it an the filter(s) in a timely fashion. On another note, how many of you remember when you changed the oil in your car every 1,000 miles or less? We've come a long way!

[IGETAROUND]

Thank you Scot and Baja Ron Good information
Now Scot, your not that old​ The only time I remember oil changes at 500 or 1000 miles was back in the 50's on break in of a new engine from the "Big" threes offerings.

Are there any problems with switching from straight dino distillations to synthetics on a used bike where the maintenance provided is unclear??
Inquiring minds would be interested in knowing

[cjackg]

.....and why do they no longer? Since BRP still sells a full synthetic oil, the change may not have been due to cost...at least not entirely.

In 2010 when I first bought a used 2010 RT and was researching what Oil to use I read somewhere that BRP had changed from full Synthetic to semi-Syn for the ROTAX due to problems with the ROTAX in snowmobiles where the full synthetic was considered too slippery for long hi-rev operation. I have no idea where I read this and dont know about the credibility...

[BajaRon]

Thank you Scot and Baja Ron Good information
Now Scot, your not that old​ The only time I remember oil changes at 500 or 1000 miles was back in the 50's on break in of a new engine from the "Big" threes offerings.

Are there any problems with switching from straight dino distillations to synthetics on a used bike where the maintenance provided is unclear??
Inquiring minds would be interested in knowing

There is no problem switching. You can even mix them. Not a great idea because you compromise the benefits of the Amsoil but it won't hurt anything either.

[NancysToy]

Thank you Scot and Baja Ron Good information
Now Scot, your not that old​ The only time I remember oil changes at 500 or 1000 miles was back in the 50's on break in of a new engine from the "Big" threes offerings.

Are there any problems with switching from straight dino distillations to synthetics on a used bike where the maintenance provided is unclear??
Inquiring minds would be interested in knowing

I learned to drive in a Model A Ford, and my first car was a '54 Chevy. No oil filter on either. Until the mid-50s, oil filters were optional...but frequent oil changes were essential.

[BajaRon]

I learned to drive in a Model A Ford, and my first car was a '54 Chevy. No oil filter on either. Until the mid-50s, oil filters were optional...but frequent oil changes were essential.

I believe this was the reason Frantz oil filters were born. Anybody remember them? You can still get this toilet paper product. The product has improved but the quality of toilet paper has really gone down hill.

[NancysToy]

.....The product has improved but the quality of toilet paper has really gone down hill.

Where's Mr. Whipple when we need him?

[boborgera]

I believe this was the reason Frantz oil filters were born. Anybody remember them? You can still get this toilet paper product. The product has improved but the quality of toilet paper has really gone down hill.

I remember them, great filters nothing got though them sometimes not even the oil.
I wouldn't be surprised if JC Whitney was still selling them'

[HntngTrout]

I remember them, great filters nothing got though them sometimes not even the oil.
I wouldn't be surprised if JC Whitney was still selling them'

They've got a web site
http://www.frantzoil.com/home.html