Not starting after winter!! :(

[mehcoib]

Hi guys,

bad news for me yesterday... My ST-S Spyder won't start!!

I parked it in my garage in October and it was working fine.

Yesterday I tried to start it, and I just got "tic tic tic tic" but I didn't hear the starter trying to start the engine. So I jump it with my car (with and without the spyder's battery plugged) but still "tic tic tic tic" and the Spyder dashboard was reseting with every single "tic". Not a battery issue since it's making the same noise even without the battery.

I can hear maybe a relay but I can't hear the starter moving. I tried the drown mode, same thing.

Here are 2 videos, one is in drown mode, the other regular starts (2 shots):
Drown mode: https://youtu.be/4C7I_bPpU6g
Regular try: https://youtu.be/wQfxtWr4Q_g

I checked the fuses, all good.

So it could be the starter (but it was working fine in October!), or the D2 diode (again, was working fine in OCtober), or the engine is seized (why woudl it be???).

I have the technical manual of this Spyder so I guess I can test the D2 diode and the starter, but how to check if my engine is seized??

Since my dashboard reset everytime I tried to start, I suspect the engine is not the culprit, it might be related to something electrical...

I could need a little help troubleshooting this issue, if one of you has an idea... Thanks!

[Peter Aawen]

I wouldn't start worrying about a seized motor just yet!

From what you describe, & going by the vids, the most likely cause of your failure to start it is just that you're not getting enough green steam from the battery - your battery is flat, evidenced by the dash going blank as soon as the starter load hits it; & the rate of voltage transfer from the car battery when you were trying to jump STILL wasn't enough to keep the computers running and crank the starter hard enough to start the engine at the same time!!

So.... Get your battery load tested to make sure it's not completely dead, and if it doesn't show about 12 volts under starting load, then it's just not going to be good enough for the Spyder & that means it's time for a new battery! You could try charging it for 8-12 hours on a good quality charger (not a trickle charger!) but if your battery's doing this at anything more'n 1 or 2 years old &/or it fails the load test at any age (and YES, it DOES need 12+ volts under load to properly work in a Spyder!) then you really need a new battery! And when you get a new battery, make sure that it gets a good 8-12 hour charge BEFORE you install it - the charge off the shelf IS NOT ENOUGH, and even if by some fluke it does manage to start your Spyder the first time after installing, by failing to charge it properly before installing it you WILL shorten its potential life significantly!

Over to you. Good Luck!

[mehcoib]

I wouldn't start worrying about a seized motor just yet!

From what you describe, & going by the vids, the most likely cause of your failure to start it is just that you're not getting enough green steam from the battery - your battery is flat, evidenced by the dash going blank as soon as the starter load hits it; & the rate of voltage transfer from the car battery when you were trying to jump STILL wasn't enough to keep the computers running and crank the starter hard enough to start the engine at the same time!!

So.... Get your battery load tested to make sure it's not completely dead, and if it doesn't show about 12 volts under starting load, then it's just not going to be good enough for the Spyder & that means it's time for a new battery! You could try charging it for 8-12 hours on a good quality charger (not a trickle charger!) but if your battery's doing this at anything more'n 1 or 2 years old &/or it fails the load test at any age (and YES, it DOES need 12+ volts under load to properly work in a Spyder!) then you really need a new battery! And when you get a new battery, make sure that it gets a good 8-12 hour charge BEFORE you install it - the charge off the shelf IS NOT ENOUGH, and even if by some fluke it does manage to start your Spyder the first time after installing, by failing to charge it properly before installing it you WILL shorten its potential life significantly!

Over to you. Good Luck!

thanks for your reply!

I agree, all the clues seem to say: that's a dead battery.

BUT, I just jump start it from another vehicule (Polaris Slingshot) that has almost the same battery (same brand but a bit stronger (400A vs 350A for the Spyder)), and still I can't start the Spyder!

I mean, let's admit the Spyder'S battery is dead (could be, it's 8 yo!). But when I remove this (bad) battery, and I jump start the Spyder with the other vehicule, it should start, right? But no, still the same "clicking" noise.

So far:
* no reason why the engine would be seized, so let's rule that out
* jump start not working: so not the battery, not the alternator
=> bad starter? bad D2-diode? starter selenoid?

[GaSpyderRyder]

I had to install a new battery in my 2018 RT LTD, but after I got it started it didn't run right. I thought about a problem I ran up against while I was stationed in Alaska in 1980 (I didn't have a bike then) water from condensation had mixed in with my gas. I could start my Spyder, but it wouldn't stay running after I put it in gear. I bought a bottle of "Heet", poured it into the gas tank and finished refilling the tank with fresh gas. Within 1/8th of a mile the motor smoothed out and I haven't had a problem since. I recommend using Heet when storing a Spyder during the winter.

[2dogs]

The spyder takes a boatload of juice to get it started. Half a boat for the system to wake up and the other half for the starter. You should show 14+ volts after you turn the key and before you hit the starter. Then it needs a full 12 to fire up. Peter gave you the best solution to your problem. Good luck. Follow his advice to the T.

[mehcoib]

So I went to the dealership yesterday and the tech agreed with me: not related to the battery (or the alternator) since it won't start when I jump start it.
I also tested the starter selenoid and it seems good.
Next step: I'm gonna remove the starter et test it. I'll let you know.

[mehcoib]

So I did this: I disconnected the starter and I tried to start. Well, the 'good' news is that I don't have this crazy 'multi-reset'. So, it looks like it comes from the starter (why???) or... the engine?

Next : I'm gonna remove the starter, then plug it in and try to start it. If it spins then the issue could be in the engine, if it doesn't... well, it's gonna cost $CAD 800!!

[Peter Aawen]

thanks for your reply!

I agree, all the clues seem to say: that's a dead battery.

BUT, I just jump start it from another vehicule (Polaris Slingshot) that has almost the same battery (same brand but a bit stronger (400A vs 350A for the Spyder)), and still I can't start the Spyder!

I mean, let's admit the Spyder'S battery is dead (could be, it's 8 yo!). But when I remove this (bad) battery, and I jump start the Spyder with the other vehicule, it should start, right? But no, still the same "clicking" noise.

So far:
* no reason why the engine would be seized, so let's rule that out
* jump start not working: so not the battery, not the alternator
=> bad starter? bad D2-diode? starter selenoid?

No, it may not necessarily start at all if you remove/disconnect the battery completely & then try to jump your Spyder from another vehicle/battery - in fact, there's many reasons that it most likely won't start at all - ie. the length & capacity of the jumper leads themselves not being up to carrying the SHED LOADS of juice that Spyders need to start; plus, there's now the lack of any assistance at all from your existing dead/dying battery that's now completely disconnected, so it actually stands even LESS chance of starting, and that's just for starters (pun intended! ) - personally, I would've been pretty surprised if it HAD started like that... No other Spyder ever has when I've tried doing the same!

So I did this: I disconnected the starter and I tried to start. Well, the 'good' news is that I don't have this crazy 'multi-reset'. So, it looks like it comes from the starter (why???) or... the engine?

Next : I'm gonna remove the starter, then plug it in and try to start it. If it spins then the issue could be in the engine, if it doesn't... well, it's gonna cost $CAD 800!!

Let me get this straight.... In your first sentence of the quote immediately above, you disconnected the battery and then turned the ignition on (cos you didn't really 'try to start' it, did you? Not with the starter disconnected?! ) and when you turned the ign to the 'Start' position you didn't get all the 'multi-reset' flashes from the dash... Is that right?? If so, then of course you didn't get all those, cos you'd removed the biggest starting load from your dead/dying battery by disconnecting the starter & you simply showed yourself & us that without adding that significant load on top of all the rest, what little 'ooomph' was left in your existing battery was capable of beginning to start the computers & dash.... Nothing surprising there, nothing helpful either, but hey! But because you've proved/shown nothing to exclude it being a dead/dying battery, you want to skip right on over that and now you want to blame your issues on one of the two most expensive components that could possibly be causing this problem for you....

I could post up a long and detailed explanation about why what you've done so far has done absolutely NOTHING to exclude the dead &/or dying battery hypothesis that many of us have discovered is the most likely cause of EXACTLY the issues you are describing, but I reckon it'd be a complete waste of my time & effort - it seems from what we're reading that you're simply not even interested in considering the most likely cause! And even if the tech you consulted is actually more swept up on these things than it sounds like he is, there's not actually a fairly large chance that he's got a vested interest in you believing that it's anything but a dead or dying battery either, is there....

Like I said, it seems fairly clear to me that you are actively ignoring the EASIEST & SIMPLEST solution to your woes, which also happens to be the EASIEST & SIMPLEST thing to test, and nothing we've said so far has got you to really even try fixing that, cos apparently you WANT the cause of your issues to be something more expensive/difficult/esoteric than it just being a dead/dying battery.... But it also seems that I really am stupider than I thought, so I'll try to get thru once more...



You've already told us the battery in there is over 8 years old:

I mean, let's admit the Spyder'S battery is dead (could be, it's 8 yo!).

so it's clearly well past its use-by date anyway, and whatever you do it's very likely going to NEED a new battery before you can go back to riding reliably anyway, so why not give it a try! Just take your old battery to a battery shop (get it load tested if you want, but at 8 y/o, I reckon that'll be a waste of time & simply prove yet again that you DO NEED a new battery ) and BUY A NEW BATTERY that at least matches the specs of the OEM battery, preferably exceeds them, and make sure it's one that will fit in the same hole as the OEM - they're generally easy enough to 'pack out' & make fit OK if they're smaller than the OEM battery, but while the dimensions & specs/CCA/etc will usually suffice for capacity & physical size, you might wanta take the dinky little bracket thing from on top of the OEM battery with you just to make sure that whatever you get will fit with that, & that the bent tabs on that bracket that generally socket into depressions on the top/front of the OEM battery can be bent/flattened suitably to fit the replacement battery... Check the orientation of the terminals too, it's a really bugga if you get a new battery home & go to fit it, only to find that you can't readily connect the battery leads due to the oddly oriented terminals without even more stuffing around!

Anyhow, take said New Battery home, eyeball it in situ to see if you'll be able to get it properly fitted, but then BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE charge it on a proper Charger/Maintainer for at least 8 hours (the usually very quick/basic 'float charge' that it maybe got at the shop before you bought it if it was lucky really won't last long, & a proper charge before installation will give you the best chance of getting a long & power-full life from your new battery!); clean & check/tighten every battery lead connection/earth while you wait; then once the New Battery is fully charged, fit it properly to your Spyder; and only then try to start it again!! :thumbip:

Either YOU'LL be very surprised (and probably pleased too ) if it fires up without all the multi-flash issues etc that the rest of us have found generally happen due to old/poor batteries, or I'll be very surprised & have egg on my face, but I reckon I'll risk it - besides, I've been wrong before (I thought I was wrong about a dead/dying battery, but I wasn't ) & I'll probably be wrong again at some time; but seriously, when you're playing with Spyders (&/or all things mechanical really ) it's usually a very smart move to SUSPECT AND FIX THE EASY THINGS FIRST, especially if you're going to hafta do it soon anyway!

What've you got to lose?? The chance of making me surprised that it WASN'T just the battery??

Go On, DO IT! Buy the New Battery!! You might save yourself some time & money, AND get back to riding quicker too! Or not, but you'd hafta do it pretty soon anyway, and it'd finally eliminate one of the most likely causes of your issues!?

[Mikey]

Peter you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!!!