Vredestein for front - what size do I need?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well without stating the size that you want, the 5's are no longer made and the pro's do not come in the 165/60R15 size for the front so that leaves the Quatracs.

The Quatrac's are the latest version of the " 5's " and are excellent ...... Mike

[K80Shooter]

The Quatrac's are the latest version of the " 5's " and are excellent ...... Mike

I am aware of that but, they are vastly different as far as tread design goes. They should be superior to the 5's when it comes to wet roads but that's just my opinion.

I just installed two on mine yesterday Love them.

[RazzleH]

As Mike mentioned in an earlier post, if you tethered your Spyder & did some circle work without any sideslip, the Nanny would still kick in - it'll do this for a number of reasons, but at least to some degree cos it's got a Yaw Sensor that doesn't actually detect 'Sideways Slip' (or Yaw) only as it occurs, but rather it detects the Spyder's Angle of Lean BEFORE it slips, flips, or rolls - or if you like, it detects the forces that reveal 'Incipient Sideways Slip/Flip'!! This is (often?) because you have too much weight up high that's trying to throw you OUT, or away from the cornering forces....

On a 2 wheeled bike, this doesn't happen anywhere near as much because the only reason you're turning is due to you & the bike leaning IN to enable the turn and countering these forces - but despite all those forces still being similar (or possibly even greater) than on a 2-wheeled bike, your Spyder doesn't lean IN to turn it, YOU STEER IT!! And basic physics shows that since you can/must steer your bike to induce a turn (so you can turn quicker than any 2 wheeled bike can turn just by leaning) causing greater throwing out forces - YOU STILL NEED TO OVERCOME/COUNTER those 'greater throwing out' forces OR THE NANNY STEPS IN...

Apart from reducing the traction markedly & introducing a lot of sideways slide into the deal, the only other important variables in this equation that YOU have control over are really your SPEED, and what you do with your WEIGHT!! Btw, I REAALLLYY doubt that the Nanny is cutting in any sooner per se - it's waaaayyyy more likely that you're cornering harder or faster than you were on lesser tires, cos they let you slip in conditions/circumstances where now you have the grip to actually start & get further into the corners before any slipping becomes imminent & triggers the Nanny, so I reckon it's more likely that you are actually cornering faster/harder than before cos you can/don't notice it and THAT's why you're getting more Nanny intervention, if that makes sense to you?!

Regardless, AFAICan see with your concerns Clover, if you feel that your Nanny is cutting in earlier with the tires you now have & you want to sort that, then apart from going back to less grippy tires in some way, you either need to Slow Down & ride less aggressively, which you've told us you don't want to do; or you need to move your weight IN & DOWN more on every corner where you're experiencing this 'Nanny Intervention', thereby reducing the forces trying to throw you out & away from the corner & by doing so, minimising the sensor inputs that trigger the Nanny! Make sense??

I've found that you can do this by bracing yourself with your outside foot (it's down low & below the CoG so it has minimal impact on that 'yaw' sensor) to enable moving your bum across the seat and down toward the inside of the corner while also lowering your upper body (& its weight) towards the inside of the corner - ie. move your bum across the seat then in & down as you lean your upper body into the corner & forward as if to kiss your wrist on the inside handlebar... and until you get those first two well under control (that's the moving your bum in & down + getting your upper body across & down into the corner bits ) it also helps to try to avoid pushing on the outside bar but instead only PULL on the inside bar - cos until you & your weight get well down low on the inside of the bike thru a corner, a push on the outside bar will be transferring even more 'up high' weight towards the outside of the corner and actually increasing the likelihood of Nanny intervention!!

How MUCH you need to do this depends upon how hard you want to ride - it's probably not at all necessary if you're just out there tooling along with the breeze in your face, but once you start pushing things along a bit, it becomes more necessary! And just as necessary as it is, the harder you push, the more it needs to become part & parcel of your smooth flow thru the corners - this Bosch Nanny our Spyder's have is a truly wonderful thing for what she is, but she really likes a smooth flow of weight & actions instead of jerky weight transfers & sudden control inputs, changes of attitude etc! Every sensor feed she gets is by design intended to make her respond quicker/harder to sudden/aggressive changes, cos that's how things happen in an accident - so the smoother & more 'flowing' you can make your riding and all those weight transfers, steering inputs, braking, etc, etc, the less likely she is to intervene! That doesn't mean you need to slow down &/or can't go fast, cos you really can, just so long as you do it smoooootttthhhhllllyyyy and make it flow!

When I first put better tires on my Spyder & hit the test track, the Nanny went berserk!! I was used making tiny but rapid (possibly even jerky?!) control inputs and rapidly switching my body & weight from side to side of a 2 wheeled bike, but the significant gyroscopic effect provided by the two wheels spinning in line with each other which makes riding a 2-wheeler so intuitive (for some! ) damped out a lot of the jerkiness & aggressiveness inherent in the way I did this - the Spyder doesn't have that massive gyroscopic dampener effect built in and it doesn't respond much at all if you only lean or move your weight around - YOU hafta actively turn; YOU hafta actively provide the control inputs that trigger & maintain the turn; YOU hafta actively move your weight and especially your upper body a whole lot more than you do on a 2 wheeled bike if you want to corner harder, go faster, minimise the Nanny inputs; and YOU hafta actively do it all smoothly and in a flowing manner as you ride, or the Nanny will intervene to protect you from yourself!!

And once you really get into the groove of smoothly moving with, over, & around your Spyder, dialling in all the necessary weight transfers & control inputs and no more without upsetting the equilibrium of the Spyder as you use your body & control to keep it perfectly balanced and level, or maybe even leaning IN a little thru the corners, the feeling you get is phenomenal and something I like to strive for on every ride!! Not only is getting it all together gonna see you smoothly carving thru the tighter corners, short straights, and twisties much faster than any 2-wheeled bike or 4 wheeled vehicle ever could and see you doing that WITHOUT the Nanny cutting in, but IMHO you get a much greater feeling of 'exhilarating oneness' with your bike! (And if she's good, your pillion passenger can share this exhilaration with you too! ) A 2-wheeled bike has all that in-built gyroscopic effect to dampen any mistakes you might make and to keep it all together & behaving, but climb aboard one of these things and it's just you controlling your Spyder and her Nanny; and together, they are much more responsive and directly reactive to & managed by YOU!! You get it wrong, the Nanny tells you to think about what you did wrong and to smarten up - there's no gyroscopic forces holding things upright or acting to keep you safe!! It all comes back to YOU and the wonderful piece of engineering (albeit with a few ideas that failed miserably in their execution ) that is the machine that YOU are piloting - do it smoothly, flowing thru feeding in all the control that's necessary and not one bit more or less, then when you do get it right, the Nanny doesn't intervene anywhere near as much and you'll know that you've achieved it - this time!!

Sorry about the saga, but you did ask....

Saga it is not! Technical explanation of how some of the 'good stuff' on these machines works is a whole lot better than 'yet another opinion' from 'yet another home expert'. With all that clearly explained, why are so many trying to buy and fit car tyres that don't work as well with Nanny as do those often slandered Kenda tyres?

[Piratezz]

I have Michelin's Cross-Climate's on the front, they work waaaaayyy better than the OEM Kenda's. It's all about how you drive the Spyder; I drive aggressively when I am one-up; less so with the spouse on the backseat - I get reminded now and then to behave by getting a tap on the helmet...
Nanny learns from your driving; after I put on the swaybar and real tyres, the Spyder just does his job much better...

[Peter Aawen]

Saga it is not! Technical explanation of how some of the 'good stuff' on these machines works is a whole lot better than 'yet another opinion' from 'yet another home expert'. With all that clearly explained, why are so many trying to buy and fit car tyres that don't work as well with Nanny as do those often slandered Kenda tyres?

Cos just about every reasonable quality car tire will perform better in all respects of tire performance than the OEM Spec Kendas, which earlier on were barely an excuse for a black round thing capable of keeping the metal bits off the road, and even now have only gradually improved to a functional level, just so long as you don't really expect too much from them....

In basic factory trim, the Kendas are more of a limitation on your riding performance than the Nanny. And it's really only when you start fitting reasonable quality and higher performance auto tires that you can begin to get levels of grip & performance from them that mean, unless they're teamed with smooth riding skills of a higher than a 'thumb in bum, mind in neutral level' that the Nanny might become a little more active IF YOU as the Rider don't make the effort to do things smoothly & in a skillful way start to move your weight around to compensate for the lack of those 2 dirty great gyroscopic stabilisers you find mounted fore & aft on a 2 wheeled bike!

So it's not that better quality tires "don't work as well with Nanny as do those often (but fairly ) slandered Kendas", cos better quality/performing tires DO work as well with the Nanny; in fact, they work far BETTER with the Nanny; cos when you've got Kendas fitted, it's the Kendas that are the fairly restrictive limiting factor on the machines capability & performance, such that you'll never be able to ride enough to truly wake up the Nanny all that much/often unless you've got a death wish; but once you fit better tires (ie, just about any a/mkt quality auto tire ) then due to the non-leaning nature of the machine, you'll be able to get far greater performance from the machine & the better tires, but to reach those limits will require more skill & effort input on the rider's behalf or the Nanny will be forced to step in to keep things tidy! Note this bit from my earlier post:

I REAALLLYY doubt that the Nanny is cutting in any sooner per se - it's waaaayyyy more likely that you're cornering harder or faster than you were on lesser tires, cos they let you slip in conditions/circumstances where now you have the grip to actually start & get further into the corners before any slipping becomes imminent & triggers the Nanny, so I reckon it's more likely that you are actually cornering faster/harder than before cos you can/don't notice it

Basically, it comes down to this - stick with the Kendas & you'll rarely trigger the Nanny cos the tires won't let you do anything much at that level of performance unless you've seriously got a death wish; but fit better quality/more capable tires and you WILL be able to ride without ever waking the Nanny if you wish AND you'll have longer lasting tires with far greater performance & safety margins built in if you ride gently enough that you never waken the Nanny any more than you did with the Kendas; OR as mentioned earlier, it's more likely that you'll start pushing things harder (as you almost certainly will cos it's soo easy & that much more enjoyable of a ride! ) you'll eventually reach a level of performance & handling somewhat beyond any level the Kendas would allow; and if you do that & then keep on pushing (as you most likely will, just because it's still so easy and enjoyable to do on a Spyder fitted with 'real' tires! ) you'll eventually reach a level where you'll need to put in more effort & skill to avoid waking the Nanny when you do those things that are waaayyy beyond the grip & performance levels the Kendas would ever allow - but you'll probably WANT to do them!

Just Sayin'

[RazzleH]

Cos just about every reasonable quality car tire will perform better in all respects of tire performance than the OEM Spec Kendas, which earlier on were barely an excuse for a black round thing capable of keeping the metal bits off the road, and even now have only gradually improved to a functional level, just so long as you don't really expect too much from them....

In basic factory trim, the Kendas are more of a limitation on your riding performance than the Nanny. And it's really only when you start fitting reasonable quality and higher performance auto tires that you can begin to get levels of grip & performance from them that mean, unless they're teamed with smooth riding skills of a higher than a 'thumb in bum, mind in neutral level' that the Nanny might become a little more active IF YOU as the Rider don't make the effort to do things smoothly & in a skillful way start to move your weight around to compensate for the lack of those 2 dirty great gyroscopic stabilisers you find mounted fore & aft on a 2 wheeled bike!

So it's not that better quality tires "don't work as well with Nanny as do those often (but fairly ) slandered Kendas", cos better quality/performing tires DO work as well with the Nanny; in fact, they work far BETTER with the Nanny; cos when you've got Kendas fitted, it's the Kendas that are the fairly restrictive limiting factor on the machines capability & performance, such that you'll never be able to ride enough to truly wake up the Nanny all that much/often unless you've got a death wish; but once you fit better tires (ie, just about any a/mkt quality auto tire ) then due to the non-leaning nature of the machine, you'll be able to get far greater performance from the machine & the better tires, but to reach those limits will require more skill & effort input on the rider's behalf or the Nanny will be forced to step in to keep things tidy! Note this bit from my earlier post:



Basically, it comes down to this - stick with the Kendas & you'll rarely trigger the Nanny cos the tires won't let you do anything much at that level of performance unless you've seriously got a death wish; but fit better quality/more capable tires and you WILL be able to ride without ever waking the Nanny if you wish AND you'll have longer lasting tires with far greater performance & safety margins built in if you ride gently enough that you never waken the Nanny any more than you did with the Kendas; OR as mentioned earlier, it's more likely that you'll start pushing things harder (as you almost certainly will cos it's soo easy & that much more enjoyable of a ride! ) you'll eventually reach a level of performance & handling somewhat beyond any level the Kendas would allow; and if you do that & then keep on pushing (as you most likely will, just because it's still so easy and enjoyable to do on a Spyder fitted with 'real' tires! ) you'll eventually reach a level where you'll need to put in more effort & skill to avoid waking the Nanny when you do those things that are waaayyy beyond the grip & performance levels the Kendas would ever allow - but you'll probably WANT to do them!

Just Sayin'

You must be quite a soft/genteel ryder then Peter, if your Kendas barely kick nanny into action. Just saying!!!

[Little Blue]

....All I am going to say, 'there are tires that are reliable and better than the OEMs'

Your Spyder, so do what makes you feel good.

Stay Healthy. ....

[Peter Aawen]

You must be quite a soft/genteel ryder then Peter, if your Kendas barely kick nanny into action. Just saying!!!

Not really Razzle, you might want to ask around a bit before deciding that. However, I may not be as hard a rider as some others might be, but still, I reckon I ride hard enough - and it was just soo easy to 'outride' the Kendas well before the Nanny kicked in!

Besides, I really don't know too many people who are prepared to hang their weight off the inside of their bike while cornering hard & at speed that truly like sliding their front wheels so much that the bike ends up not only sliding into the adjacent lane, but also sliding thru that next lane and completely across the first of the two lanes going the other way, ending up smack in the middle of the far kerb side on-coming lane before the Nanny thought that it was time to interject! I hafta admit tho, that as all that happened, I had a lot of things racing thru my mind, and featuring highly amongst them was the thought that it was a bloody good thing it was just me riding on a closed section of 'highway mimicking track' and that someone else was carrying the financial can if I broke anything (bike, track, or person ) but that first run I did with the OEM Kendas still fitted proved to be pretty useless as a control run, cos everything else we tested after that was simply sooo much better it just made a mockery of the earlier 'Kenda shod' performance that it proved conclusively to all involved that the Kendas were the Spyder's performance limiting feature!

Still, in the many tens of thousands of miles that I've done since then, running & testing all sorts of other tires on a variety of Spyders as well as for my own 'recreational riding', I'd say that it's become very clear to me that if anyone feels they've been 'riding to the limits of their Spyder's capability' while it's been running Kendas, then they'll be completely blown away at how much more capable their machine becomes once they eventually fit some better tires & run them at appropriate pressures for the load - and sure, any auto tires run at or near the right (lower) pressure for the lighter load of a Spyder will make for a significant improvement, but fitting some good quality high performance tires & running them at or near the optimum pressures for the Spyder's load will make such a VAST difference that such a rider will be utterly gob-smacked, and like so many other doubters have eventually discovered, they'll find that fitting better tires will make EVERYTHING about their Spyder that much better, more capable, and more enjoyable!!

Just Sayin'

[Piratezz]

This is going to be "a who has the longest ....", for me cartyres just work better, easier cornering, straight stability vastly improves. moe grip on wet underground.
Peter is absolutely right in his story, but we each are in title to have our own opinion.
What works for me, doesn't have to work for anyone else.

[BajaRon]

There are 2 ways to 'Engineer' a component. We make a mistake when we assume that the 1st motive is always the driving force. And that is to make the best item possible at a reasonable price. Don't ignore the too often utilized 2nd motive. And that is to produce the absolute minimum quality necessary to maximize profit.

It doesn't take too much research to determine which method was chosen when it comes to the OEM Kenda tires.

If getting a great tire at a reasonable price is the goal. I would say there has been some great advise presented. The Nanny isn't designed to make tire choices. You don't have to ride slower to keep her happy as there are alternatives available.

In the end. There is no reason to fight about tires (or any other product). Buy what you like and be happy! Just be sure you let the other guy do the same.

Discussion brings knowledge. Argument brings only anger.

[Peteoz]

You must be quite a soft/genteel ryder then Peter, if your Kendas barely kick nanny into action. Just saying!!!

……

Pete

[BuddyMack]

Hi folks, before anyone screams, search the archives, I did.

Getting ready to put new tires on the front, tyres for you folks down under.
2013 RTL.
What size Vredestein do I need?
I'll be glad to get rid of the Krapolas up there!

Installed on my 2013 Spyder RT: The 175-55 is just a tick taller and wider than the 165-55 and DOES NOT INTERFERE with the fenders. Got mine at Tire Rack for $113 - free shipping with Two Year Road Hazard included at no charge. Told them it was for a 2015 Mits Mirage since you have to provide that information. They've no idea what a Can Am is.

[Heisty]

This has been a great read, but so far limited to the front end. In the past, if I’ve put new rubber on, it’s been “all the way around”. Would it be reasonable for a ‘22 RTL to get just two new fronts to start, and leave the rear on for a while? None are worn yet, the change would just be for all of the above benefits….Thks!

[Peter Aawen]

This has been a great read, but so far limited to the front end. In the past, if I’ve put new rubber on, it’s been “all the way around”. Would it be reasonable for a ‘22 RTL to get just two new fronts to start, and leave the rear on for a while? None are worn yet, the change would just be for all of the above benefits….Thks!

You'll most likely wear out the rear tire BEFORE you wear out even the OE Spec Fronts, so there's the likelihood that you'll need a rear tire well before the fronts are worn out; but don't let that stop you from changing out the fronts at the same time to fit good a/mkt tires early to go with a new a/mkt rear, that certainly won't hurt, and will very likely give you more of an appreciation of the significant improvement in traction, ride, & handling you'll get over the OE Spec tires. But sure, you can replace just the fronts; or as is more likely, just the rear first.

That said, it's not always easy to find tires in both front & rear compatible sizes from the same manufacturer, albeit sometimes just due to current availability. So, like many others, you might find that you simply CAN'T get 'a set' of front and rear tires suitable for your Spyder/Ryker from the same manufacturer. That's not really any issue at all tho - you really only need to match your tire makes/tread types on the same axle/end of your car &/or bike - so it's perfectly fine to run saaay, a pair of Vredestein's up front & a General Altimax or something else on the rear. The only real concern there is that you should at least try to get somewhere close to the same rolling diameter variation front & rear - ie if you go for 175/60R15's up front, an increase in the width & profile, it'd be smart to go up a profile size in the rear too, maybe even 2 profile sizes if you go for a tire 2 sizes narrower, as in a 215/60R15 or a 205/65R15. Make Sense?

But if you're keen to run the same brand/type of tire on each end, there are some manufacturers that make tires that will work well for you - just not too many in the OE Spec sizes! If one was a cynical chap, one might think that OE tire sizes may have been deliberately chosen odd-ball sizes just to make it harder for people to source matching alternatives! Good thing that we've got laws in this country (I'm in Australia ) that mean we can fit any a/mkt tire that meet or exceed the OE Spec Load & Speed ratings and that fit properly on the rims within a defined size range of the OE tires, isn't it?!

[Heisty]

Thank you, Mr. Aawen!
Sounds like my thinking was a bit too anticipatory - so more turns of the tubes down the road, and no worries, as I learn more about my new RTL ��

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Installed on my 2013 Spyder RT: The 175-55 is just a tick taller and wider than the 165-55 and DOES NOT INTERFERE with the fenders. Got mine at Tire Rack for $113 - free shipping with Two Year Road Hazard included at no charge. Told them it was for a 2015 Mits Mirage since you have to provide that information. They've no idea what a Can Am is.

I have bought many sets of tires on Tire Rack ..... They always ask what veh. they are going on ...... and I have Never told them anything about the veh...... and they still sold me what I ordered..... PS, I also never ask them what I should buy ...... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Some Tire selection Facts ..... all tires on the same axle (or end) should Always be the same .... size, brand and Tread .... So in the case of Spyders, the fronts MUST match but anything that fits can go on the rear. ..... If using Auto tires, tire science has determined that 15-17 psi front .... & 17-19psi on the rear is what works best ..... adjust (within those PSI's) for other than normal loads & driving style. ..... Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have bought many sets of tires on Tire Rack ..... They always ask what veh. they are going on ...... and I have Never told them anything about the veh...... and they still sold me what I ordered..... PS, I also never ask them what I should buy ...... Mike

.... sorry I hadn't read Peter's response .... so just this knowledge .....

[BajaRon]

We have found that the slightly wider 175/55r15 size works well on all the 2014-2019 Spyders. There is a bit less room on the 2020+ machines and a bit tighter for the 175/55r15 size. It is still doable, but virtually no wiggle room left. The 165/60r15 is slightly taller than the OEM 165/55r15 (as is the 175/55r15). But is the same width as OEM. The taller size does not create any issues.

I changed front wheels on my 2008 GS from the 14's to F3 Blade 15's. Not only do they look GREAT! But it opens up a much better front tire selection. If you're interested in new OEM wheels, let me know. You might be able to find some good used ones as well. All the OEM wheels will fit your 2008-2012 Spyder.