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  1. #1
    Very Active Member Martin Slovakia's Avatar
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    Default It will cost me $1500 - don't make the same mistake

    Hi guys, i know its simple topic but it maybe will help to some of you and also maybe you will save yourself 1500+ USD

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  2. #2
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    Sorry (not sorry) but if these things are that fragile, then why aren’t steering related crashes making the news everyday? There isn’t a one of us that hasn’t pushed our Spyders using only the handlebars
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  3. #3
    Active Member Rick28's Avatar
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    What cost you 1500 for pushing it ?
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    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Sorry, but I disagree with the conclusion that pushing the bike using the handlebars is the cause of his steering slop. Its a worn steering unit, has nothing to do with pushing it. And by the way, have seen brand new bikes with more slop than that. Some have much less. There is some free play in the steering shaft.

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  5. #5
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Sorry, but I disagree with the conclusion that pushing the bike using the handlebars is the cause of his steering slop. Its a worn steering unit, has nothing to do with pushing it. And by the way, have seen brand new bikes with more slop than that. Some have much less. There is some free play in the steering shaft.
    I agree. We've been pushing our shop bikes in and out of the shop several times a week and we don't have steering slop like that. I'm not sure how pushing on the bars translates to damage to the DPS (About a $1,500.00 part not counting installation). My thought would be the very bad roads and the hard riding I've seen in Martin's videos. Now that would be hard on any vehicle's steering components. I think his video on the Ryker steering dampener is a telling fact. You may be able to dampen the jolt to the handlebars. But the steering dampener is mounted after the DPS and the steering shaft universal joint. Which means these components are still taking the full brunt of the force.

    In our relatively short repair shop experience. We've found the steering shaft universal to be wear/slop prone. In every case, so far. Replacing that steering knuckle has restored a tight steering condition. We've seen bad DPS units. But we've not experienced sloppy DPS units.

    Not necessarily saying that Martin is wrong. I'm just not seeing the connection here.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 01-17-2023 at 06:08 PM.
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  6. #6
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    with posters # 2-3-4-& 5 ..... jmho .... Mike

  7. #7
    Very Active Member Martin Slovakia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick28 View Post
    What cost you 1500 for pushing it ?
    its power steering unit, or some part there, that needs to be completly replaced as there is not partial solution to it. Once the mechanic told the price, i have stopped listening so i dont know the part number

  8. #8
    Very Active Member Martin Slovakia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    I agree. We've been pushing our shop bikes in and out of the shop several times a week and we don't have steering slop like that. I'm not sure how pushing on the bars translates to damage to the DPS (About a $1,500.00 part not counting installation). My thought would be the very bad roads and the hard riding I've seen in Martin's videos. Now that would be hard on any vehicle's steering components. I think his video on the Ryker steering dampener is a telling fact. You may be able to dampen the jolt to the handlebars. But the steering dampener is mounted after the DPS and the steering shaft universal joint. Which means these components are still taking the full brunt of the force.

    In our relatively short repair shop experience. We've found the steering shaft universal to be wear/slop prone. In every case, so far. Replacing that steering knuckle has restored a tight steering condition. We've seen bad DPS units. But we've not experienced sloppy DPS units.

    Not necessarily saying that Martin is wrong. I'm just not seeing the connection here.
    I agree with you Ron about me doing crazy stuf. Also my riding may have had some impact on that bloody unit. The thumbnail was maybe to "agresive" to actract views, but still I believe pushing the bYke in long run with handlebars only dont help the bYke.
    heavier the bYke is the more trouble it will get in loooong run.
    always nice to see you areoun here and comenting
    Martin

  9. #9
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    I think ....TURNING .... A Spyder without the engine running could cause this issue, but simply pushing it a few feet isn't causing damage. I have moved my 14 RT this way and have 75,000 mi. on it and the steering is still within spec. ..... JMHO .... Mike

  10. #10
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Slovakia View Post
    I agree with you Ron about me doing crazy stuf. Also my riding may have had some impact on that bloody unit. The thumbnail was maybe to "agresive" to actract views, but still I believe pushing the bYke in long run with handlebars only dont help the bYke.
    heavier the bYke is the more trouble it will get in loooong run.
    always nice to see you areoun here and comenting
    Martin
    You've got some bad roads, there Martin. And you like to ride hard. Nothing wrong with that. Just the kind of thing that would cause the issue you're having. We've got some pretty bad roads here as well. But before you go replacing your DPS. Check this component in the steering column. It is the universal joint at the top of the steering shaft that gets loose. It is very easy to see if the uppder shaft is turning and the lower shaft is not. Of course, inner and outer tie rod end bearings can also add to the problem.

    SpyderSteering.jpg
    Last edited by BajaRon; 01-23-2023 at 04:04 PM.
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  11. #11
    Very Active Member Martin Slovakia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    You've got some bad roads, there Martin. And you like to ride hard. Nothing wrong with that. Just the kind of thing that would cause the issue you're having. We've got some pretty bad roads here as well. But before you go replacing your DPS. Check this component in the steering column. It is the universal joint at the top of the steering shaft that gets loose. It is very easy to see if the uppder shaft is turning and the lower shaft is not. Of course, inner and outer tie rod end bearings can also add to the problem.

    SpyderSteering.jpg
    Ron this is great advise. I have put that into my folder, so when the time comes I will check on that. THANK YOU!!!

  12. #12
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    I have absolutely from day one, never pushed by the handlebars. I always grab the passenger bar. And I steer with the other hand. To me, that seems to be the most logical thing to do.

    But wouldn't think pushing by the handlebars would damage anything though.
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  13. #13
    Very Active Member pegasus1300's Avatar
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    Ron , it looks like you have to replace that entire column to change the U Joint. Do you also need to reset the steering with Buds?

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  14. #14
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus1300 View Post
    Ron , it looks like you have to replace that entire column to change the U Joint. Do you also need to reset the steering with Buds?
    If I'm understanding that fiche' the U-joint isn't sold as a separate part. However the column and the u-joint were created separately so if you take that part out I'm sure you can find a U-joint that will match. .... JMHO .... Mike

  15. #15
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    Pulling rather than pushing can't do any harm.
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  16. #16
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vito1943 View Post
    Pulling rather than pushing can't do any harm.
    " pulling " is just " pushing " from the other side of the handlebars..... JMHO .... Mike

  17. #17
    Very Active Member Flamewinger's Avatar
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    You’re comparing a new model with a well used model and it’s the way you push it that causes a problem?? I don’t think so. The few of your videos I’ve seen tell me you abuse them. Ride them hard like wanting to burn rubber with the rear.

    Sorry but I don’t think so.
    Last edited by Flamewinger; 01-24-2023 at 04:26 PM.

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  18. #18
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus1300 View Post
    Ron , it looks like you have to replace that entire column to change the U Joint. Do you also need to reset the steering with Buds?
    The answers are 'Yes' and 'No'. The universals we have encountered are welded onto the end of the steering shaft. You could, theoretically, change out the pressed in bearing component. But if there is any wear in the race, you're not going to fix the issue. Even if you could replace the universal itself with the same connection specs. It is a proprietary piece that I do not think you're going to find anywhere.

    You do not need BUDS for this as it will not change the steering angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    " pulling " is just " pushing " from the other side of the handlebars..... JMHO .... Mike
    I know the fiche appears to have the universal as a separate part. And, obviously, it began life that way. But the ones we've seen are welded at the end. Plus, I'm not sure you're going to find this particular configuration with both mating ends the correct size.

    Bad picture. But I hope this helps.

    Spyder Steering Shaft.jpg
    Last edited by BajaRon; 01-24-2023 at 04:08 PM.
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  19. #19
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    You do not need BUDS for this as it will not change the steering angle.
    I'm not sure what the dealer tech did wrong other than put the shaft on the wrong spline, but I had to realign the front wheels and reset the steering angle with BUDS after they replaced the steering column in my 2014 RT. One grip was a good inch farther forward than the other. Took me a year of riding to finally figure out what the problem was. Fixing it is what led me to my realignment saga, described here. https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ighlight=align

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  20. #20
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    I'm not sure what the dealer tech did wrong other than put the shaft on the wrong spline, but I had to realign the front wheels and reset the steering angle with BUDS after they replaced the steering column in my 2014 RT. One grip was a good inch farther forward than the other. Took me a year of riding to finally figure out what the problem was. Fixing it is what led me to my realignment saga, described here. https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ighlight=align
    Well, yes. It does require that the replacement be aligned as the original. 1 spine off would give you the end result you had. I'm surprised they let it leave the shop that way. And, to be fair. We always check with BUDS after doing one of these. But it has always been OK with no adjustment of steering angle needed. But maybe a blanket statement is not the best route.
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  21. #21
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    The steering force path through the DPS is all mechanical. The steering assist motor sits outside of the steering forces path. I think you stand a chance of creating more damage to the DPS motor and steering torque sensor by the heavy turning torque while pushing the bike by the handlebar with the ignition turned on. With no power to the DPS the assist motor is free to turn with almost no resistance.

    Here's a video showing the internals of the DPS. The first minute is not relevant. The video is of a DPS for an M3 off road but I see no reason why the Spyder one wouldn't the same other than size.

    Last edited by IdahoMtnSpyder; 01-24-2023 at 07:32 PM. Reason: add M3 comment

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  22. #22
    Very Active Member Gwolf's Avatar
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    Pot holes.............
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