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  1. #1
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    Default Lithium Batteries

    What experience have owners had with Lithium Batteries? Are they better? do you need a battery maintainer for them? Does it need to be a special maintainer?

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    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    I was told by some experienced people that I trust, not to go with a lithium. Granted, there have been some issues with them. But being the kind of guy I am, I didn't listen to them. This is the battery I got and I am EXTREMELY pleased with it. I think it is awesome!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    It is much smaller than the OEM battery so I don't have to wedge it into the very tight space allowed. It weighs almost nothing and delivers more power than the OEM battery. Lithium is supposed to last longer too. Have only had it for 6 months so can't say there.

    There isn't anything special you need to do for it except you'll need a good Lithium battery charger. Do not use a charger that is not designed for lithium batteries.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 10-19-2019 at 04:19 PM.
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    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    I've had a LiPo battery in my old, slow V-Max for 7 or 8 years. Weighs nothing, works every time. I do have the proper charger though. I had thought about one for my but got a regular battery instead as previous discussion on this site was not too positive.

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    Very Active Member ThreeWheels's Avatar
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    I don't understand. If the LiPo battery needs a special charger, how does the vehicle charging system designed for a conventional battery work ?
    If the battery is dead, can you jumo it using a conventional jump pack or jumper cables to another vehicle ??
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeWheels View Post
    I don't understand. If the LiPo battery needs a special charger, how does the vehicle charging system designed for a conventional battery work ?
    If the battery is dead, can you jumo it using a conventional jump pack or jumper cables to another vehicle ??
    This explains some of the questions. I think it's just a matter of time until vehicles switch to lithium batteries. The cordless tool industry has made the switch and they seem to be a huge improvement.


    https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/...-acid-charger/
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 10-19-2019 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Fixed unneccessary URL attempt that garbaged the link! :/
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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    I was told by some experienced people that I trust, not to go with a lithium. Granted, there have been some issues with them. But being the kind of guy I am, I didn't listen to them. This is the battery I got and I am EXTREMELY pleased with it. I think it is awesome!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    It is much smaller than the OEM battery so I don't have to wedge it into the very tight space allowed. It weighs almost nothing and delivers more power than the OEM battery. Lithium is supposed to last longer too. Have only had it for 6 months so can't say there.

    There isn't anything special you need to do for it except you'll need a good Lithium battery charger. Do not use a charger that is not designed for lithium batteries.
    Ron, How long have you been using this battery in your ride, had any issues??

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    Active Member cruisinTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    Ron, How long have you been using this battery in your ride, had any issues??
    re-read?

    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    I was told by some experienced people that I trust, not to go with a lithium. Granted, there have been some issues with them. But being the kind of guy I am, I didn't listen to them. This is the battery I got and I am EXTREMELY pleased with it. I think it is awesome!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    It is much smaller than the OEM battery so I don't have to wedge it into the very tight space allowed. It weighs almost nothing and delivers more power than the OEM battery. Lithium is supposed to last longer too. Have only had it for 6 months so can't say there.

    There isn't anything special you need to do for it except you'll need a good Lithium battery charger. Do not use a charger that is not designed for lithium batteries.

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    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    Ron, How long have you been using this battery in your ride, had any issues??
    I've been running this battery since March of this year. About 6 months. Zero issues. Though I had zero issues with my previous AGM battery until it gave up. The lithium has a number of advantages over the AGM. Weight, (substantial difference. (I think it was 17lbx down to 3), CCA is much higher, (Don't remember the difference there). Smaller so it isn't such a tight squeeze. Previous AGM batteries swelled a bit when they went bad and were difficult to remove. I really like it.
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    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
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    This inquiring mind wants to know. If a Lithium-Ion battery can be put in a Spyder and the alternator keeps it charged, why can’t an alternator be put into an all electric car such as a Tesla rather than having to plug into an electric outlet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    This inquiring mind wants to know. If a Lithium-Ion battery can be put in a Spyder and the alternator keeps it charged, why can’t an alternator be put into an all electric car such as a Tesla rather than having to plug into an electric outlet?
    Tesla and just about any fairly new Electric golf carts have had regenerative braking,which is where when the car goes downhill they use the momentum to generate electric which is then fed back into the main batterys.An alternator used to charge the batterys while driving would have to be the size of a doghouse to keep up with those batterys,it actually would be like creating a perpetual motion machine which is not possible yet.
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    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. So using a Lithium-Ion battery in a Spyder would be constantly charged by the 1330 alternator? And the alternator would not over charge or harm the battery? Also, I guess a Lithium-Ion charger would not be needed as long as the Spyder was ridden year round?
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    Default Depends...

    This subject has been around for sometime. I know that on the Twins those batteries did not fare well and they were not recommended by many. Now on the newer engines like the 1330, 900 and 600 they may work well as they are easier to start with less of a load. On the Rykers there is the added advantage of not having the DPS that is a heavy drain on the battery. Have not heard much on thier use on the newer engines but would imagine they will perform well. Just need to support them with some spacers in the battery box area....
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    Very Active Member ThreeWheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenic View Post
    This explains some of the questions. I think it's just a matter of time until vehicles switch to lithium batteries. The cordless tool industry has made the switch and they seem to be a huge improvement.


    https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/...-acid-charger/
    Thanks for fixing the link, I now understand.
    So if I read this correctly, NO, you cannot use a LiPO battery with a charger designed for lead acid batteries.
    Since most common vehicles (maybe airplanes are excluded) use lead acid batteries, switching to LiPO will require changes to the alternator/voltage regulator.
    Am I correct ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chupaca View Post
    This subject has been around for sometime. I know that on the Twins those batteries did not fare well and they were not recommended by many. Now on the newer engines like the 1330, 900 and 600 they may work well as they are easier to start with less of a load. On the Rykers there is the added advantage of not having the DPS that is a heavy drain on the battery. Have not heard much on thier use on the newer engines but would imagine they will perform well. Just need to support them with some spacers in the battery box area....
    Wonder if this is still an issue given probable advances in the technology.
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    Prior to my Spyder, I put one in my BMW R1200GS. As others have said, smaller, lighter, 4 battery terminals, etc. I was very pleased but I only had the bike for 1 year after putting in the LiIon so I don't know what longer term experience is like. Playing it safe I used a LiIon Battery Tender Jr.

    The battery in my RT surprised me by failing with no warning. I could not quickly find a LiIon in the stores and I didn't want to wait for it to come from Amazon. I purchased a Duracell AGM at Batteries + Bulbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joekeys View Post
    What experience have owners had with Lithium Batteries? Are they better? do you need a battery maintainer for them? Does it need to be a special maintainer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    This inquiring mind wants to know. If a Lithium-Ion battery can be put in a Spyder and the alternator keeps it charged, why can’t an alternator be put into an all electric car such as a Tesla rather than having to plug into an electric outlet?
    Something has to turn the alternator in order to generate electricity. In a gas engine vehicle it's the engine that does that. An all electric like the Tesla has no engine to turn the alternator.

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    I have a 2008 GS. The lithium battery is working fine so far. Though it is curious that the charging system is certainly not optimized for this kind of battery. We will see how long it lasts.
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    From having hand tools with them, my only fear would be that when they get ready to give up it's like turning off a light switch! It will be interesting to see what will happen, guess you may want a jump pack ready!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    I have a 2008 GS. The lithium battery is working fine so far. Though it is curious that the charging system is certainly not optimized for this kind of battery. We will see how long it lasts.
    My hope on these is that they have the necessary voltage/amperage adjustments built into the battery, kind of like the newer cell phones. If they require some special modification of normal automotive voltage, and are sold as drop in units, then this must certainly be the case, right? Otherwise the very real possibility of the LI battery exploding (reference Tesla, Vaping units, certain cell phones I.E. Samsung 7 banned from commercial aircraft)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    From having hand tools with them, my only fear would be that when they get ready to give up it's like turning off a light switch! It will be interesting to see what will happen, guess you may want a jump pack ready!
    Lion batteries have a built-in recharge counter with a limit on the number of recharges. When it's reached, no more charging. That may be what you have encountered. I don't know if Lion vehicle batteries have the same thing but I suspect they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Lion batteries have a built-in recharge counter with a limit on the number of recharges. When it's reached, no more charging. That may be what you have encountered. I don't know if Lion vehicle batteries have the same thing but I suspect they do.
    Interesting ….. if this is accurate, that number is must be hugh. Doesn't the alternator ( or magneto ) recharge the battery almost constantly ????? ………… or am I missing something ……. Mike

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    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Interesting ….. if this is accurate, that number is must be hugh. Doesn't the alternator ( or magneto ) recharge the battery almost constantly ????? ………… or am I missing something ……. Mike
    I think he is referring to charge cycles. So you'd get just 1 charge cycle per ride (start to stop. Ignition on to ignition off). It would not count an additional cycle until the charger (whether it be a static based or vehicle charging system) was disconnected/turned off and restarted again.Though I don't think static lithium battery chargers have a 'Trickle Charge' cycle. If this is true, there would be an automatic shut down when full charge is reached. If the charged came back on at some point, another charge cycle would be added to the count.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 10-21-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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    Very Active Member ThreeWheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Lion batteries have a built-in recharge counter with a limit on the number of recharges. When it's reached, no more charging. That may be what you have encountered. I don't know if Lion vehicle batteries have the same thing but I suspect they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Interesting ….. if this is accurate, that number is must be hugh. Doesn't the alternator ( or magneto ) recharge the battery almost constantly ????? ………… or am I missing something ……. Mike
    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    I think he is referring to charge cycles. So you'd get just 1 charge cycle per ride (start to stop. Ignition on to ignition off). It would not count an additional cycle until the charger (whether it be a static based or vehicle charging system) was disconnected/turned off and restarted again.Though I don't think static lithium battery chargers have a 'Trickle Charge' cycle. If this is true, there would be an automatic shut down when full charge is reached. If the charged came back on at some point, another charge cycle would be added to the count.
    Did we ever get this sorted out ?
    I've looked for references to a recharge cycle counter on the Lithium Polymer batteries, but can't find any.
    This could be true, but as stated, that means you could be out in Utah one day, and start your Spyder at camp and Boom.....No warning, No battery.
    Shouldn't there be some type of warning associated with that ? Sort of like when you start getting low on gas ?
    I'm asking because I'm liking the possibility of the LiPo battery.
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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeWheels View Post
    Did we ever get this sorted out ?
    I've looked for references to a recharge cycle counter on the Lithium Polymer batteries, but can't find any.
    This could be true, but as stated, that means you could be out in Utah one day, and start your Spyder at camp and Boom.....No warning, No battery.
    Shouldn't there be some type of warning associated with that ? Sort of like when you start getting low on gas ?
    I'm asking because I'm liking the possibility of the LiPo battery.
    I just did some searching. Here is a quote from Super B batteries web site FAQ page. https://www.super-b.com/en/faq
    A Battery Management System is necessary for control and protection during discharge and charging. The BMS provides CAN bus communication of battery status ‘state of charge’ and alarms etc. It may also be used without CAN bus interface with just basic analog inputs and outputs for simpler systems.
    In another answer they say the charging system must be modified. What that all means is a good question. They sell motorcycle batteries but essentially have no information what, if anything, you need to to do to use a LiPo battery in a motorcycle.

    This page, https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/, says Battery Management System built in. They also state 3000 - 5000 cycles. But what constitutes a cycle?

    Here's another quote from https://antigravitybatteries.com/hel...rical-charging
    Our lithium batteries will operate perfectly fine with the stock charging system in most motorcycles, powersports vehicles and automobiles. Where the problem can occur is when charging the battery with a standalone charger. Additionally if you have an aftermarket charging system on your vehicle, note that we cannot warranty the battery for use with aftermarket charging systems due to the fact that we do not test with these and some of these are not regulated as strictly as a stock/standard system found in a motorcycle, powersports vehicle or automobile.
    To sum it up LiPo require special charging systems but they're built into the battery. There is a limit to how many times any Li-on battery can be charged. Beyond that the web sites are scant on information just as you say.

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    I bought into the Lithium IRON Kool Aid when I had left my Ducati for about a year no charging, and it started right up. The Shorai battery is OE in my Ducati. I have since put a 6 volt in my 1981 Honda C70 with electric start no problems. I have one waiting to go in my 1959 Harley FLH which has been converted to 12 volt but is a generator system, shall see how that works out. I also have one ready to go into my 2003 Harley sportster. They weigh next to nothing, are smaller than OE, can get different sizes though. I get mine and chargers for Shorai from Battery Mart. I will change to them as I replace in all my bikes. The Shorai comes with sticky foam to take up excess space in battery compartment. The only thing is they hibernate a bit in coooold weather and sometimes need to turn lights on to wake them up. Who rides in cold anyway?

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