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  1. #1
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Default Question about difficulty shifting (and a lift)

    I got my used 2010 Spyder RT-S SE5 about a year ago, with about 12,500 miles on it.
    Since then I put about 2,000 miles on it, and have found it sometimes difficult to shift when neutral is involved.
    I have not noticed any issue with shifting up when accelerating.
    However, when it is hot, after say half hour of highway cruising, it starts having difficulty shifting down.
    Getting into first as slowing to a stop light, and especially getting in and out of neutral when I want to reverse, sometimes it just won't go there.

    I'm about to do some maintenance on it, so if there are any hints of what to look for to resolve this I'd appreciate it. I am going to do the following, plus whatever is recommended:
    Engine oil and filters (both engine and transmission).
    Air filter.
    Spark plugs and wires.
    Rear tire.

    Thoughts on:
    Exhaust gaskets (necessary, and where to get the gaskets?).
    Rear bearing seals and wear sleeves (again, is this normally done at ~16,000 miles?).

    And hopefully finally, what is a good, small scissor lift to use to get the rear wheel up?
    I have ramps that I plan on backing onto to make the oil change and rest easier to get to.

    Thanks much.
    Sully

  2. #2
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Have you checked your engine oil level. The shifting issues you describe matches the symtoms when you are running low on oil.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  3. #3
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    Have you checked your engine oil level. The shifting issues you describe matches the symptoms when you are running low on oil.
    Yup, oil's not low. But I'll be changing it shortly, so the full 4.5 quarts per the manual should prove this out.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Could be also a plugged HCM oil filter. I would hope it has been converted to the longer filter by now. Not sure about the 2010 owners manual. It may still say to change the HCM filter every second oil change. BRPs policy has changed to every oil change.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  5. #5
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    Could be also a plugged HCM oil filter. I would hope it has been converted to the longer filter by now. Not sure about the 2010 owners manual. It may still say to change the HCM filter every second oil change. BRPs policy has changed to every oil change.
    That's along the lines of what I was thinking. So current SOP is to change both filters when changing oil.... Will be interesting to see if this does it. Thanks!

  6. #6
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Alrighty, so I got the oil changed, ran the engine for a minute or so, put the last quart in.
    No problem. It has the new longer filter by the way.

    Went to shift, nada. It's warm, in Neutral, and won't go into either 1 or Reverse.
    I still have the left side panels off, including the left side mirror (the only electrical connection that I believe is currently broken).

    What gives?
    New transmission filter blocked already? Did I put the transmission filter in backwards (is that even possible)?
    I've half a mind to drain a quart of oil, take out the transmission filter, put the oil back, and try to shift.
    But at the least I'll sleep on it.
    Ideas anybody?

    On the bright side, I think I fixed a small, nagging oil leak. The line from the rear head into the air intake had a loose hose clamp. I'm pretty sure that's where the oil came from.

  7. #7
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Low oil or blocked oil filter are suggestions. Not a comprehensive list of what could be wrong.

    Yes the oil filter could be put in backwards. Anything is possible with enough force. Open end with rubber grommet towards the HCM.

    Sometimes the shifter switch starts to fail and that requires the whole left handlebar control center to be replaced.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  8. #8
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Could also be the gear position sensor gone bad.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.

  9. #9
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    BRP item number 420640192 on that gear position sensor?
    I will also check the linkages underneath tonight.

  10. #10
    Very Active Member Snowbelt Spyder's Avatar
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    Sully - Did you check the HCM filter yet? Yes it’s possible to put the HCM filter in backwards. Fits just fine. It’s the most common cause of failure to shift immediately after changing oil. Happened to another member on here not too long ago. Since the panels are still off, it’s just a 5 minute check. You don’t have to drain any oil to pull that cap off. As Billy said, grommet goes towards HCM.


    Doug

    2012 Spyder RT LTD Lava Bronze, RT 622

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  11. #11
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Not yet, will do tonight I think. I am pretty sure it is in the right way. But we’ll see. Better to check this than start throwing money at parts.

  12. #12
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Curiouser and curiouser.
    OK, so I got home, drained about a quart of oil out of the black tank (I know, I didn't need to, but, well the level of the filter is below the level of oil in the tank, so....), and pulled the filter housing off. Filter was in correctly.

    BUT....

    Not a drop of oil made it to the HCM filter. I could put the filter back in the box and return it, it's that clean.
    Sooo, what prevents oil from getting to the transmission filter housing?
    It looks like just a hose going to the bottom of it.

  13. #13
    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    Sully, Re your lift question, many find the very reasonably priced Harbor Freight ATV lift that has the lower 4 3/4 minimum height.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/1500-l...ift-61632.html
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  14. #14
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGoebel View Post
    Sully, Re your lift question, many find the very reasonably priced Harbor Freight ATV lift that has the lower 4 3/4 minimum height.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/1500-l...ift-61632.html
    Wow that looks stout, thanks! Looks like I'll see if I can find a coupon....

  15. #15
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    So it looks like the oil system has a strainer, but if that's blocked I'd think the oil pressure light would have stayed on.
    I idled for probably about 5 minutes in total last night, and the oil pressure light went off after the first ~3-5 seconds.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member Snowbelt Spyder's Avatar
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    Well Sully, just to make sure we're on the same page - the new HCM filter cap is 1 5/8" long. The new style filter is closed at one end and has a rubber grommet around the open hole on the other end. So, you have to ignore the picture in your operator's guide on page 126, which shows the old style filter. The open end with the grommet goes up against the HCM. Closed end in the cap. if there was oil in your old filter, there should be no reason oil isn't still pumping.


    Doug

    2012 Spyder RT LTD Lava Bronze, RT 622

    Original Owner

    Seal Pups, F4 Customs SWCV, Corbin, JT's Air Filter, Cat Bypass, Power Commander V, NBV, SpyderFlap, Rivco Dual Flag Holder, Lidlox, Baja Ron Sway Bar, links, plugs and wires, Adjustable Chrome Side Vents, Spyderpops Block Off Plate and Belt Guard, Bump Skid, Canisterectomy, Akrapovic, TricLed HL/FL, Spyder Cuff with X-Grip, S-Drive, Rock Armour, P238, Laser Alignment by Gray Ghost, Windshield Arm by Noboot, Vibration Dampener by Doc.

  17. #17
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbelt Spyder View Post
    Well Sully, just to make sure we're on the same page - the new HCM filter cap is 1 5/8" long. The new style filter is closed at one end and has a rubber grommet around the open hole on the other end. So, you have to ignore the picture in your operator's guide on page 126, which shows the old style filter. The open end with the grommet goes up against the HCM. Closed end in the cap. if there was oil in your old filter, there should be no reason oil isn't still pumping. You're right about the strainer - it's on the common outlet from the tank. It would have blocked everything.
    Yup, I have the new longer HCM filter cap and the longer filter installed, rubber grommet facing to the hole into the HCM, closed end in the cap.
    There was oil in the old filter, and I actually rode it around a bit before the oil change and the gear switching was working OK (as far as I know).
    Nothing obvious fell out with the old oil, not gritty or anything when I poured from my drip pan into a collection container.
    Just a normal dark oil.

  18. #18
    Very Active Member Snowbelt Spyder's Avatar
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    Well crap! The HCM has its own pump, but it might be too early to declare that bad yet. It worked fine yesterday. Have to study on this for awhile.


    Doug

    2012 Spyder RT LTD Lava Bronze, RT 622

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    Seal Pups, F4 Customs SWCV, Corbin, JT's Air Filter, Cat Bypass, Power Commander V, NBV, SpyderFlap, Rivco Dual Flag Holder, Lidlox, Baja Ron Sway Bar, links, plugs and wires, Adjustable Chrome Side Vents, Spyderpops Block Off Plate and Belt Guard, Bump Skid, Canisterectomy, Akrapovic, TricLed HL/FL, Spyder Cuff with X-Grip, S-Drive, Rock Armour, P238, Laser Alignment by Gray Ghost, Windshield Arm by Noboot, Vibration Dampener by Doc.

  19. #19
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    There is not a common outlet from the oil tank. The HCM has its own suction line from the oil tank feeding its own oil pump. There are no HCM oil pressure sensors so no light lights or warnings for low pressure in the HCM system. The oil light on the display is for engine oil. Different system using the same oil.

    Pull the HCM suction line from the tank and inspect it. Should only take a few minutes. Just a pain to drain some more oil. See item 1 in picture. Banjo fitting.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  20. #20
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    There is not a common outlet from the oil tank. The HCM has its own suction line from the oil tank feeding its own oil pump. There are no HCM oil pressure sensors so no light lights or warnings for low pressure in the HCM system. The oil light on the display is for engine oil. Different system using the same oil.

    Pull the HCM suction line from the tank and inspect it. Should only take a few minutes. Just a pain to drain some more oil. See item 1 in picture. Banjo fitting.
    Thanks for this, looks like a viable hint. The parts diagram I saw said this went to the motor. But not only does it go toward the HCM, it DOES have a strainer....
    I'll have to do this probably on Thursday though; I'm tired, my wife got me a big Mexican dinner, I'm on my second beer, and I have to talk in front of people tomorrow.

  21. #21
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    There is not a common outlet from the oil tank. The HCM has its own suction line from the oil tank feeding its own oil pump. There are no HCM oil pressure sensors so no light lights or warnings for low pressure in the HCM system. The oil light on the display is for engine oil. Different system using the same oil.

    Pull the HCM suction line from the tank and inspect it. Should only take a few minutes. Just a pain to drain some more oil. See item 1 in picture. Banjo fitting.
    Thanks for this, looks like a viable hint. The parts diagram I saw said this went to the motor. But not only does it go toward the HCM, it DOES have a strainer....
    I'll have to do this probably on Thursday though; I'm tired, my wife got me a big Mexican dinner, I'm on my second beer, and I have to talk in front of people tomorrow.

    By the way, #30 in the picture is a strainer, and that hose goes to the HCM.

    Spyder strainer.jpg

  22. #22
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Engine oil strainer is item 18. HCM oil strainer is item 30.

    Just a side note. The HCM will not fill with oil until it goes through a couple shift cycles. So if it was not able to shift because of an electrical issue let's say. The HCM will stay in recirculating mode. Pump will be running dry. No oil at the filter.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  23. #23
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    Engine oil strainer is item 18. HCM oil strainer is item 30.

    Just a side note. The HCM will not fill with oil until it goes through a couple shift cycles. So if it was not able to shift because of an electrical issue let's say. The HCM will stay in recirculating mode. Pump will be running dry. No oil at the filter.
    If I'm hearing you right, what you're saying is this could be the strainer being plugged.
    OR, it could be a bad gear selector switch (no signal to the computer that I want to change gears), OR it could be a bad gear position sensor (not sure how...)?

    I suppose while I'm in there I may as well clean up strainer #18....

  24. #24
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Gear postion sensor I don't think so. If it was. There would be a E in the gear display. Also the N and R lights would alternately flash.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  25. #25
    Active Member Madison Sully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    Gear postion sensor I don't think so. If it was. There would be a E in the gear display. Also the N and R lights would alternately flash.
    Well, that's not happening.

    I mean, WOHOO, something to do this weekend!

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