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Thread: ECU Flash

  1. #151
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    Do we need to start a Dyno jet Tuner Thread and leave the Monster thread as is??

    I do have updates on the PV Tuner and CAn Am Model Year 2014 for the Tuner.

  2. #152
    Active Member Jetfixer's Avatar
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    It's been about 3 weeks since I got my ECU back from the Stage 1 flash. The difference is amazing! However, I have always used 89 octane non-ethanol fuel. The bike had a full tank when the ECU came back. There was actually a slight increase in MPG after the flash, especially considering how many times I "tested" the flash! I've always gotten about 40 MPG according to my Acar app records. I then switched to 93 octane premium fuel with 10% ethanol. After two tanks of this fuel, my mpg has dropped to 36. I know that the ethanol causes lower MPG. I think there has only been a slight increase in power using the 93.

  3. #153
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    It's been about 3 weeks since I got my ECU back from the Stage 1 flash. The difference is amazing! However, I have always used 89 octane non-ethanol fuel. The bike had a full tank when the ECU came back. There was actually a slight increase in MPG after the flash, especially considering how many times I "tested" the flash! I've always gotten about 40 MPG according to my Acar app records. I then switched to 93 octane premium fuel with 10% ethanol. After two tanks of this fuel, my mpg has dropped to 36. I know that the ethanol causes lower MPG. I think there has only been a slight increase in power using the 93.
    My .02 on the entire MPG's thing …. Unless you are driving almost the same roads - under the same weather conditions - driving you Spyder in a VERY similar manner ………...The variances in readings are going to be wider than you might expect ……….. There are a couple of folks here who have kept accurate records over many thousands of miles and even this isn't going to be truly accurate because who drives the same way on the same roads in the same weather ???? - NOBODY ……….. ……….. On Octane type - I've read info from Monster Fuel … they say you can use 91 oct. ( 93 isn't as widely available ) so if you use 89 oct. this is two points which is less than a 2% drop...………. Lots of OPINIONS ( not based on DYNO tests, but on BUTT tests ) where folks claim they can FEEL a drop in performance...OR improvement ….. In my REAL world experience people who have claimed great improvement in acceleration have been surprised when they had their veh's DYNO tested. …… Not " dissing " anyone here just trying to provide some perspective ……………. Mike

  4. #154
    Active Member Jetfixer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    My .02 on the entire MPG's thing …. Unless you are driving almost the same roads - under the same weather conditions - driving you Spyder in a VERY similar manner ………...The variances in readings are going to be wider than you might expect ……….. There are a couple of folks here who have kept accurate records over many thousands of miles and even this isn't going to be truly accurate because who drives the same way on the same roads in the same weather ???? - NOBODY ……….. ……….. On Octane type - I've read info from Monster Fuel … they say you can use 91 oct. ( 93 isn't as widely available ) so if you use 89 oct. this is two points which is less than a 2% drop...………. Lots of OPINIONS ( not based on DYNO tests, but on BUTT tests ) where folks claim they can FEEL a drop in performance...OR improvement ….. In my REAL world experience people who have claimed great improvement in acceleration have been surprised when they had their veh's DYNO tested. …… Not " dissing " anyone here just trying to provide some perspective ……………. Mike
    That's my point exactly. I am completely against having to have ethanol added to our fuels. I don't feel there is enough difference in engine performance to justify all the drawbacks of having ethanol in the fuel. And it's scientific fact that ethanol has less BTU's, which means in order to get the same engine performance from the fuel, you must burn more of it. Hence the lower MPG's. Since I ride my Spyder as a commuter-mobile and don't race it. I feel that I'm safe using the 89 non-ethanol as long as I don't lug the engine in too low of a gear.

  5. #155
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    That's my point exactly. I am completely against having to have ethanol added to our fuels. I don't feel there is enough difference in engine performance to justify all the drawbacks of having ethanol in the fuel. And it's scientific fact that ethanol has less BTU's, which means in order to get the same engine performance from the fuel, you must burn more of it. Hence the lower MPG's. Since I ride my Spyder as a commuter-mobile and don't race it. I feel that I'm safe using the 89 non-ethanol as long as I don't lug the engine in too low of a gear.
    Jet you have the 15 RT Ltd. so you have the SE trans ….. ( so do I ) I can't think of a way to LUG that trans..... It is set-up to auto downshift when needed and I 99% sure it won't let you UP-SHIFT unless you are at the right speed and Torque load ….. please educate me if my thoughts on this are in-correct ….. Thanks …. Mike

  6. #156
    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
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    So, now I'm a little confused. I am getting ready to have mine flashed for the following reason..... I want more power and responsiveness when touring...... especially at higher altitudes and when pulling my 622 trailer. My wife rides (my former) Goldwing when we tour. I lead. When in a passing situation, there is no way I can accelerate fast enough to get out of her way. She comes on the communicator and asks "whats wrong?". And I tell her, "I'am going as fast as I can". So, will a stage 1 get me more acceleration and power in those situations? Or, do I need to do more tweeking. Fuel mileage is not a concern and for the record, I always use premium fuel. I just want better responsiveness when I need it..... Another 15-20 ponies will do it for me. I am not interested in being able to do burn-outs, etc...... Jim
    Platinum Silver Satin 2014 RTL, Driver Backrest. Baha Ron Bar, Elka Shocks, Hiway pegs, Lighted Bump Skid, Centramatic Wheel Balancers, Wide Vu Mirrors, Third Tail/Brake light, Missing Belt Guard, Federal Formoza front and General Altimax rear tires, Squared Away, Mirror turn signals, Vibration Damper, Magnetic Mirrors, Matching RT622 Trailer.....Semper Fi....

    .]

  7. #157
    Very Active Member hypurone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Jet you have the 15 RT Ltd. so you have the SE trans ….. ( so do I ) I can't think of a way to LUG that trans..... It is set-up to auto downshift when needed and I 99% sure it won't let you UP-SHIFT unless you are at the right speed and Torque load ….. please educate me if my thoughts on this are in-correct ….. Thanks …. Mike
    True, But you can still be in too high of a gear for a given throttle application and technically be "lugging" the engine.... Yes the engine operates in that parameter but loads are much greater than if you were in a better gear for the given scenario. Like say, putting along in 4th at 2k and hammer it vs 3rd gear at 2k with the same throttle application.... I think these are the scenarios he is referring to....

    '15 F3-S Pure Magnesium Metallic - Mad Max Edition
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  8. #158
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    I am larryd, I am a fan of getting the 89T rear sprockets to work on our heaver, riding double, pulling trailers RT Spyders...This would make a world of difference in the performance of the RT's...When BRP wanted to step up the performance on the F3's all they did was change to the lower gearing 89T rear sprocket...Steve at MFI had been working with two different testers for this project and thought he had it perfected but a glitch showed up...I recently talked to Steve about this task and he said he would like to have a slave RT close at hand to try and get this working...I told Steve that I would donate the 89T sprocket and belt to try and make this happen...Now all that is needed is someone that lives on the Canada side of the boarder close to Steve @ MFI so he has a Spyder in hand to work with...If I lived closer it would be me, but it takes two weeks for the most part to send the ECU back and forth...On the F3's there is a selection in the BUDS menu that you can choose 89T or 79T rear sprocket ratio...I think this is a doable task, SOMEONE JUST NEEDS TO FIGURE OUT HOW...larryd

    canamjhb...My above response was to respond to your towing acceleration concerns...My screw up for not attaching to your post...And my RTS has the MFI stage 1 flash...
    Last edited by larryd; 02-17-2019 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Want to say more

  9. #159
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canamjhb View Post
    So, now I'm a little confused. I am getting ready to have mine flashed for the following reason..... I want more power and responsiveness when touring...... especially at higher altitudes and when pulling my 622 trailer. My wife rides (my former) Goldwing when we tour. I lead. When in a passing situation, there is no way I can accelerate fast enough to get out of her way. She comes on the communicator and asks "whats wrong?". And I tell her, "I'am going as fast as I can". So, will a stage 1 get me more acceleration and power in those situations? Or, do I need to do more tweeking. Fuel mileage is not a concern and for the record, I always use premium fuel. I just want better responsiveness when I need it..... Another 15-20 ponies will do it for me. I am not interested in being able to do burn-outs, etc...... Jim
    As I stated in my post #155 above …. I'm quite sure if you have an SE trans. a LUGGING scenario is not very likely …. I would try and an LUG my 2014 RT but it's buried in my basement due to WINTER ...…….. Mike

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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypurone View Post
    True, But you can still be in too high of a gear for a given throttle application and technically be "lugging" the engine.... Yes the engine operates in that parameter but loads are much greater than if you were in a better gear for the given scenario. Like say, putting along in 4th at 2k and hammer it vs 3rd gear at 2k with the same throttle application.... I think these are the scenarios he is referring to....
    Here's my thoughts on your scenario …. ( not dissing you ) …. " anyone can do something ridiculous/outrageous etc.... I think it's written in the US Constitution " , but I'm not one who would - are you ????? ( again not dissing you ) ……… BRP has done a hugh amount of homework on how to prevent a rider from having an accident ………. However they nor anyone else can prevent someone from just driving off the road or slamming into a bridge abutment …. but imho it's so rare an occurrence I don't think it's been done yet …… and again NOT dissing anyone here ….. Mike

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    if you put in fuel with an octane rating too low for your vehicle, it can create a knock. An octane rating is the measure of a fuel type’s ability to resist premature detonation of the air-fuel mixture in the engine. This combustion causes “knocking” or “pinging” monster change timing and knock sensor values for 91 octane fuel engine knock can do thisdownload.jpg .from the monster website ''Note: 89 or 87 can be used in an ''emergency''. If used, stay below 50% grip throttle and don't lug engine in a high gear with low rpm. Keep engine rpms higher (5000+rpm) only using low gears. The throttle opening should never outpace
    engine rpm (load engine). Cycle fuel tank before riding normal again. Always use 91+ on stage 2 setups'' doesn't sound like fun to me to stay below 50% throttle i wouldn't risk it with 89 or 87 unless i had to. you do not get good mpg with melted valves and pistons

  12. #162
    Active Member Jetfixer's Avatar
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    Between my last post and this one, I agree with all of you. And if I remember correctly, there was some info from Monster that said their flash (Stage 1) essentially kept the factory parameters below 3000 rpm. The new settings kicked in above 3k. And as with any engine, it's best to not lug it when cold. That said, with my Stage 1 flash, my bike still downshifts at the same points if left on its own, and does allow me to upshift even if I feel it might be too low of an rpm. As detrimental as pre-ignition (knock, ping, etc.) is, I almost wish there was a way to know for sure if it would be audible on this bike. I swear I've never heard any either before or after the flash. The Monster Stage 1 flash absolutely comes to life after 3000! This thing just wants to go! I use my Spyder as a daily driver commuter mobile in any weather except icing and brine covered roads. For some reason now, even though I leave my house at the same time, I get to work earlier each day!

  13. #163
    Active Member JS3535's Avatar
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    Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

    What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
    I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

  14. #164
    Very Active Member hypurone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Here's my thoughts on your scenario …. ( not dissing you ) …. " anyone can do something ridiculous/outrageous etc.... I think it's written in the US Constitution " , but I'm not one who would - are you ????? ( again not dissing you ) ……… BRP has done a hugh amount of homework on how to prevent a rider from having an accident ………. However they nor anyone else can prevent someone from just driving off the road or slamming into a bridge abutment …. but imho it's so rare an occurrence I don't think it's been done yet …… and again NOT dissing anyone here ….. Mike
    And they will! I was only confirming that yes, a person can technically "lug" the engine, even with the SE trans, which makes the loads on the rod bearings/wrist pins & rings that much greater.... And once they have the "flashed" power/torque curve, they tend to get "lazy" with the shifting cuz it pulls so well.....

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    JS3535 Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

    What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
    I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

    sounds like a good plan to me

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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddjim View Post
    JS3535 Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

    What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
    I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

    sounds like a good plan to me
    You might not be happy with the way that stuff is created ( ie chemically ) …… Mike

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    Trigger pulled Vision CX ordered

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    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddjim View Post
    JS3535 Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

    What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
    I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

    sounds like a good plan to me
    You need LOWER octane at higher altitudes. Less oxygen at higher altitudes so you need to have a lower flash point for the fuel. Your bike will adjust and compensate for the altitude and you should realize better fuel mileage while experiencing reduced performance. Adding octane booster would be counter-productive..... Jim
    Platinum Silver Satin 2014 RTL, Driver Backrest. Baha Ron Bar, Elka Shocks, Hiway pegs, Lighted Bump Skid, Centramatic Wheel Balancers, Wide Vu Mirrors, Third Tail/Brake light, Missing Belt Guard, Federal Formoza front and General Altimax rear tires, Squared Away, Mirror turn signals, Vibration Damper, Magnetic Mirrors, Matching RT622 Trailer.....Semper Fi....

    .]

  19. #169
    Active Member 308gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryd View Post
    I am larryd, I am a fan of getting the 89T rear sprockets to work on our heaver, riding double, pulling trailers RT Spyders...This would make a world of difference in the performance of the RT's...When BRP wanted to step up the performance on the F3's all they did was change to the lower gearing 89T rear sprocket...Steve at MFI had been working with two different testers for this project and thought he had it perfected but a glitch showed up...I recently talked to Steve about this task and he said he would like to have a slave RT close at hand to try and get this working...I told Steve that I would donate the 89T sprocket and belt to try and make this happen...Now all that is needed is someone that lives on the Canada side of the boarder close to Steve @ MFI so he has a Spyder in hand to work with...If I lived closer it would be me, but it takes two weeks for the most part to send the ECU back and forth...On the F3's there is a selection in the BUDS menu that you can choose 89T or 79T rear sprocket ratio...I think this is a doable task, SOMEONE JUST NEEDS TO FIGURE OUT HOW...larryd

    canamjhb...My above response was to respond to your towing acceleration concerns...My screw up for not attaching to your post...And my RTS has the MFI stage 1 flash...
    I asked steve about this too..hes working on it..when hes successful in doing this in which he will (he needs more time)..a lot of people will have it done..

  20. #170
    Active Member kdp1308's Avatar
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    I just asked Steve about the 89t rear sprocket and this was his reply, "We started to look into allowing sprocket changes, but never finished. Personally, I think the higher gearing of the 79T is better. Just add power to match the 89T acceleration. And I think a better mod would be for the 80T users to install the 79T setup. (Not the opposite)."
    I just want to be able to get off the line riding 2 up and to be able to use 5th gear.

  21. #171
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    The only thing the 79 T rear sprocket may be good at is top speed...And then only if you have the HP to push the Spyder thru the air resistance...

    When ever you purchase a vehicle with the towing package they have the same HP as all the others but have a lower rear gear to make them pull...

    I would like to see two exactly the same EVERYTHING F3 Spyders line up against each other, with the only difference, one equipped with 79T and the other with 89T rear sprockets...I would bet the 89T would kick A** every time...Why do you think BRP changed to the 89T F3??? It was the easiest way to make them quicker...No other reason...

    I have offered to loan a 89T black rear sprocket and a new belt to anyone that lives near Steve at MFI to get this developed...He needs a slave bike close at hand to work on...There is too much shipping and riding time lost mailing the ECM's around...

    This 89T sprocket change for the RT would really wake these heavy machines up...

    larryd

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoovOpRatoR View Post
    I just ordered the Dynojet Power Vision, it seems to be user customizable and uses the existing port to connect. We'll see how she goes!

    https://cart.dynojet.com/p-3069-power-vision.aspx
    Have you tried hooking it up yet ?
    Mine arrived yesterday and connecting to port just right of rad cap I get nothing {F3-S} , key turned on , unless I plug in my computer to power unit , but then when I try to do first flash to marry it , it says "no ecu" connected .
    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by strykerAKAmack View Post
    Have you tried hooking it up yet ?
    Mine arrived yesterday and connecting to port just right of rad cap I get nothing {F3-S} , key turned on , unless I plug in my computer to power unit , but then when I try to do first flash to marry it , it says "no ecu" connected .
    thanks
    digging a little deeper seems got a wrong cable , on the bike plug pins 12345 have cables plugged in but on the PV cable it has pins for 123&6 so 123 pins connect to bike while pin 6 is dead ended . and calls to dj gets phones are down at moment

  24. #174
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    I used tech support online. You have the wrong cable. Seems like they been sending the wrong cables for the spyder. And it will never read your ECU . Once you get the correct cable you may have to send the ECU in to pull your tune and then they create one for your Spyder.

    Then load the maps to your Tuner and then you can load the revised tune to the ECU.

    I was sent cable # # 76950960 this is what they said I needed. Took them 3 times to get it correct.

  25. #175
    Active Member JS3535's Avatar
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    I called & talked to a guy at Dynojet about a month ago. He couldn’t really give me a good description of how the unit worked, what tunes were available or what features it would do (like quick start). I called back a week later & talked to someone else & same thing. Needless to say I ended up sending my ECU to monster. Should have it back next week, hope the weather holds out to be able to test it.

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