Shifting 1st to 2nd

[SPYDERFUZZ]

This is just a little "I don't believe you". I took a 3 wheel course this past week-end from a guy that has been riding and building motorcycles for 50 years. He is a sidecar nut, but anyway a real nice guy and took a lot of time to explain everything to me. One of the things he had me do (or wanted me to do was a "figure eight", get up to 15mph shift to 2nd then down shift to 1st and turn the curve and head back around. I told him I could not shift below 15mph but like I say he didn't believe me. So I got up to 20mph real quick and got to 2nd (some of the) time then real fast downshifted to 1st. Most of the time I could get going fast enough to get to 2nd in the short distance he allowed. The other two people in the course were driving bikes he made and had no trouble shifting to 2nd manual trans). I just wanted to let you know that everybody doesn't know about the what a can or can't do. Was I telling the truth or was he right, and I was wrong and it was my ability not the ?

[Cruzr Joe]

You are correct, the Spyder should not shift out of first until roughly 28 MPH on a Semi Automatic, not sure on a manual.

Cruzr Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[CyncySpyder]

Shifting at too low an RPM can damage the transmission by warping the plates. As long as your above 4,200 RPMs, you should be able to safely shift, but personally, I wouldn't suggest shifting til around 5,000 RPMs so that your really starting to get into the PowerBand that the Spyder was built for.

Most ppl that have been riding 2 wheelers forever have no clue just how different a Spyder Roadster is compared to the 'same ole same ole' that they've been accustomed to ryding, so this shouldn't surprise anyone in here.

[captblack]

Works on an SM but lugs the engine a little in 2nd. I would have cheated and gone a little faster ...

[Bob Denman]

I'm missing something...
Is yours an SE-5, or SM-5?
If you've got an ESSEM; you could have shifted wherever you wanted...
The ESSIES are the fussy ones about keeping things spinning above a certain rpm level...

[Illinois Boy]

Bob mentions a good point...

The main issue is on SE's, where the clutch is not fully locked (engaged) until 3200 (+-200).

Otherwise, for a class, shifting sooner to learn the techniques of setting-up for a corner and driving through one, you would probably not cause a lot of damage. (I am glad to hear you took a course to learn this. It is good information for your safety and enjoyment.)

In this situation, It certainly is not putting a Spyder in its optimum configuration though (being far below its power-band), but as mentioned, for a class you could get away with it for the few hours of practice.

The problem is when owners operate their Spyders in this manner regularly.

[SPYDERFUZZ]

Then I was right. Thank God I only had to do it a few times and I did cheat and went faster then 15mph but had to shift and down almost few second apart. I have RT S ES limited and normally shift between 5 & 6000. Thanks for everyone's responses. I was tell the people that went through school with me to be sure to log into spyderlovers.co they will find great people and gain unlimited knowledge. I know I have.

[Bob Ledford]

I think I would have just turned the wick up a little higher and made the shifts really quick to make the OF (rhymes with gas) happy. But you did right by informing the OF of the machines capabilities

[TexAmRider]

I'm hearing what you're saying about RPM's and speed of shifting, but just can't push it. I'm shifting from 1st to 2nd at about 4000 to 4200 rpm and my speed at about 20-22 mph, and its sounds really wound up. Around the same with each gear as speed increases. Running about 5050 at 75 mph in 5th gear. What am I missing? Is there supposed to be a really neat change in sound or feel when shifting at a higher RPM / Speed. I now have about 1800 miles under me which of course shows you I am new to the ride. Maybe my tach is out of whack. confused !!

[BikerDoc]

50 years of "motorcycle" experience is irrelevant when it comes to understanding a Spyder.. Usually the more motorcycle experience people have the harder it is for them to learn that the Spyder does very little like a traditional motorcycle. Just like only perfect practice makes perfect, only Spyder experience is makes for a good advisor on Spyders

[Rotaxer]

Maybe you need to rev to 8-9,000 a few times to see what the Rotax is capable of, then 5 k will sound good to you. The rotax likes to rev, I very rarely rev to 9 k, usually if accelerating quickly I go 7-7500 k.



N.B. When testing the tach I would go by the digital tach if the digital and analog are reading different. I and others have had to replace the cluster because of faulty analog tachs. If this is the case take a picture of the cluster when the discrepancy is happening and visit your dealer.

[NancysToy]

I'm hearing what you're saying about RPM's and speed of shifting, but just can't push it. I'm shifting from 1st to 2nd at about 4000 to 4200 rpm and my speed at about 20-22 mph, and its sounds really wound up. Around the same with each gear as speed increases. Running about 5050 at 75 mph in 5th gear. What am I missing? Is there supposed to be a really neat change in sound or feel when shifting at a higher RPM / Speed. I now have about 1800 miles under me which of course shows you I am new to the ride. Maybe my tach is out of whack. confused !!

You need to teach your ears a new tune. Forget what you think it sounds like, and be sure to shift an SE where it will remain above about 3500 after the shift. That means shifting at 4500-5000 rpm or more. You can run the thing all the way up to 9500, so don't let that Harley or Goldwing tune playing in your head guide you...you need to hear the Huyabusa song.

[SPYDERFUZZ]

BikerBob, an old golf pro told me one time practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. I thought that was good advice.

[Spyder Tony]

I'm hearing what you're saying about RPM's and speed of shifting, but just can't push it. I'm shifting from 1st to 2nd at about 4000 to 4200 rpm and my speed at about 20-22 mph, and its sounds really wound up. Around the same with each gear as speed increases. Running about 5050 at 75 mph in 5th gear. What am I missing? Is there supposed to be a really neat change in sound or feel when shifting at a higher RPM / Speed. I now have about 1800 miles under me which of course shows you I am new to the ride. Maybe my tach is out of whack. confused !!

After riding 2-wheeled cycles for so long, the hardest thing for me to do was to use the recommended shifting points. It may sound like you're redlining your Spyder, but rest assured that high RPM's are what they require. You will get used to the "sound" of when to shift (as you mention) after riding the bike for a while. I used to look at the tach to see when I should shift...now, I can "hear" when it's time to shift and it no longer feels like i'm winding my bike out before shifting to the next gear. Lugging (shifting at too low/early of a point) is what you want to avoid. As a frame of reference, I (like you) used to shift from 1st to 2nd at 4200-4500 rpms...now, I am totally used to shifting from 1st to 2nd at 5500-6000 rpms and am used to the sound of the engine at those rpm levels. I'd recommend giving the shifting points outlined in this forum (Sticky) a while longer until they become "2nd" nature...get it, 2nd (as in 2nd gear)???
Okay...the pun is admittedly a bad one, but hopefully the advice is better

[Illinois Boy]

BikerBob, an old golf pro told me one time practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. I thought that was good advice.

I like that!

[TexAmRider]

Ok I got it. I took it out last evening, and smoked the tach, and it felt good. That is until my wife slapped me upside the head, wandering what I was doing. When I explained, she said you can do that when I'm not with you. Ha , like she almost meets me at the door when I get off work to go riding.

Any way, I pushed it like you said and wow, this thing will get up and go. I found myself shifting at no less than 4500 rpm even when I double checked myself. Also, my tach is not whacked. Just me. Thanks for all the help guys, and Gals. Love the ride.

P.S. Did you see where the 6 day dude came unwound? I used to sell Chinese Scooters, and there is no comparison. While I'm able, I still ride my Honda VTX 1800, for the 2 wheel thrill, but can't beat the Can Am Trike.

[KeithInAurora]

Bob mentions a good point...

The main issue is on SE's, where the clutch is not fully locked (engaged) until 3200 (+-200).

Otherwise, for a class, shifting sooner to learn the techniques of setting-up for a corner and driving through one, you would probably not cause a lot of damage. (I am glad to hear you took a course to learn this. It is good information for your safety and enjoyment.)

In this situation, It certainly is not putting a Spyder in its optimum configuration though (being far below its power-band), but as mentioned, for a class you could get away with it for the few hours of practice.

The problem is when owners operate their Spyders in this manner regularly.

Are you sure the clutch fully locks at 3200 (+-200)? That seems awful low, since my RT is usually lugging along at 3200 unless I'm in 1st gear. Like Spyder Tony, I don't shift out of 1st gear until more like 6500 rpm and I try to keep every shift above 5000 after the shift. Through experimentation, that seems to give me the best performance and least amount of lugging or "spin up" after the shift. Oh, I also found that up-shifting is much smoother when I am accelerating and keeping a constant throttle. Just my $.02 worth...

[Illinois Boy]

Are you sure the clutch fully locks at 3200 (+-200)? That seems awful low, since my RT is usually lugging along at 3200 unless I'm in 1st gear. Like Spyder Tony, I don't shift out of 1st gear until more like 6500 rpm and I try to keep every shift above 5000 after the shift. Through experimentation, that seems to give me the best performance and least amount of lugging or "spin up" after the shift. Oh, I also found that up-shifting is much smoother when I am accelerating and keeping a constant throttle. Just my $.02 worth...

That information is in the manual "specs". Is is correct.

Locking of the clutch just means it is fully-engaged... it does not mean you are within the engine's power band. It is in the range of 3200 where the clutch no longer "slips".

The engine's power band begins at much higher rpm's than 3200; which is probably why you are finding better performance by shifting at a much higher rpm. Most would have a more enjoyable experience if they would operate their machine within the power band, by shifting accordingly.

[Bob Denman]

, ...so don't let that Harley or Goldwing tune playing in your head guide you...you need to hear the Huyabusa song.

That's a good way to put it!