Engine Locked Down, BRP Want Cover Under Warranty

[boborgera]

Being the Devils Advocate, I would think when you Illegally Modified a Spyder; ie Tampering with an emission device, Removing the cat' O2 mod. etc, The dealer and or BRP can refuse to work on that Spyder . And I'm sure BRP's lawyers would 'if push came to shove also point out that the finds for tampering reach into the ten's of thousands. Just saying.

[hackett43]

There's a lot of folks in here who've researched this issue more than I have...
It just seems like good common sense that if your "modification" started the chain of events that led to the failure; you're screwed...
However... if the actual failure was in an unrelated system of components that were otherwise unaffected by the tinkering under the hood; then you have a leg to stand upon!
It's time for Round Two... Good Luck!

Seems like i started a war hear, I've been accused of coming hear lurking for 2yrs. and posting for the first time only to complain. I am realest, If i dont have something revelant to add to the conversation, then i keep my mouth shut. I love this site, i've found vaulable information about the spyders from you guys and i am thankful. I thought my post may help some one else, But it seems this subject has been covered in the past. I thought i finally had something to post to help others. Thanks to farmboy i am going to fight BRP on this, I have been doing some research all morning and i will be contacting my lawyer.

[mastertek2000]

Seems like i started a war hear, I've been accused of coming hear lurking for 2yrs. and posting for the first time only to complain. I am realest, If i dont have something revelant to add to the conversation, then i keep my mouth shut. I love this site, i've found vaulable information about the spyders from you guys and i am thankful. I thought my post may help some one else, But it seems this subject has been covered in the past. I thought i finally had something to post to help others. Thanks to farmboy i am going to fight BRP on this, I have been doing some research all morning and i will be contacting my lawyer.

I am on your side this had nothing to do with what your problem is and for some reason them 2 guys that posted you are lurking if the had nothing to say they should have been like you and to post now they are judging some one by the # of post they have come one guys the posted here for help not to get pounded down because he only has 9 post so I wounded how long you 2 have been bikers because you sure the hack ain't acting like one Hackett I wish the best of luck on this battle let us know how it goes sorry for the way some members acted

[hackett43]

I am on your side this had nothing to do with what your problem is and for some reason them 2 guysat posted you are lurking if the had nothing to say they should have been like you and to post now they are judging some one by the # of post they have come one guys the posted here for help not to get pounded down because he only has 9 post so I wounded how long you 2 have been bikers because you sure the hack ain't acting like one Hackett I wish the best of luck on this battle let us know how it goes sorry for the way some members acted

Thank you for your support, I will give updates on The out come.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks to farmboy i am going to fight BRP on this, I have been doing some research all morning and i will be contacting my lawyer.

As I said before; Good Luck, and we're hoping for a successful conclusion to this nightmare for you!

[Littlebadwolf]

I understand the loyalty aspect between a dealer and a customer but one thing I do find confusing is that the dealer will install and charge you the going labor rate for any aftermarket product you bring to them...Then they'll play the loyalty game if something needs to be fixed that they installed to begin with. Can't have it both ways, but they do.

[hackett43]

As I said before; Good Luck, and we're hoping for a successful conclusion to this nightmare for you!

Thanks

[SpyderFun]

...I aked him (Alex ) how can they not cover it under warranty when it had not been determined what caused the engine to lock down. He said that it had been modified and BRP stands behind there decision, I asked him if it was a faulty oil pump would it still not be covered ? He still said it would'nt be covered...

Approaching this from a maintenance background of 30+ years, BRP needs to 1st determine what caused the failure. Did the engine fail due to a faulty NON-MODIFIED part or did it fail as a result of an UNAUTHORIZED MODIFICATION?

Is there anyone on this site who thinks that adding additional lights would cause an engine to seize up? Yet the adding of additional lights is by definition an "unauthorized modification". Only after determining WHAT caused the engine to seize up can BRP then determine if it is a warranty issue or not. Sorry BRP but simply "modifying" your product does not completely void a warranty unless the modifications can be shown to be the cause of premature failure.

Finally, if there are faulty components due to poor quality control by a supplier or BRP itself then it is BRP who has the issue and the resulting problem(s).

[ivanlee]

Hello to all, This is my first post on here but i have been following this site for 2 yrs. I have a 2009 spyder that i purchased new in 2010. The first weekend in May i was headed home from a bike show, about a half mile from were the show took place i was riding along doing around 50mph. and all of a sudden i heard a rattling noise from the engine and before i could pull over the back tire locked down. I called some friends and they came with my trailer, We had a hard time getting it out of gear. I took to the dealer on the following Monday. When they tried to get approval they asked did it have a fuel controller on it, He told them that he was not sure because he had'nt removed any covers accept the oil cover. well to shorten this story up, When BRP found out that i had a fuel controller on it they told the dealer that it would'nt be covered under warranty because my bike had been modified. So i called them myself and they told me the same thing, I aked him (Alex ) how can they not cover it under warranty when it had not been determined what caused the engine to lock down. He said that it had been modified and BRP stands behind there decision, I asked him if it was a faulty oil pump would it still not be covered ? He still said it would'nt be covered. Right now i am pissed ! Now i have a bike with 8k miles with a locked engine that BRP want cover under warranty. Has this happen to any one else ? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The first thing out of BRP is no! even if it is their fault. they save a lot of warranty cost because their is a lot of people that don't push it, you need to take this all the way. good luck.

[hackett43]

Approaching this from a maintenance background of 30+ years, BRP needs to 1st determine what caused the failure. Did the engine fail due to a faulty NON-MODIFIED part or did it fail as a result of an UNAUTHORIZED MODIFICATION?

Is there anyone on this site who thinks that adding additional lights would cause an engine to seize up? Yet the adding of additional lights is by definition an "unauthorized modification". Only after determining WHAT caused the engine to seize up can BRP then determine if it is a warranty issue or not. Sorry BRP but simply "modifying" your product does not completely void a warranty unless the modifications can be shown to be the cause of premature failure.

Finally, if there are faulty components due to poor quality control by a supplier or BRP itself then it is BRP who has the issue and the resulting problem(s).

You're right, even a different type or brand Of tires pipe, etc. could void warranty by there definition.

[Knarfoh]

Approaching this from a maintenance background of 30+ years, BRP needs to 1st determine what caused the failure. Did the engine fail due to a faulty NON-MODIFIED part or did it fail as a result of an UNAUTHORIZED MODIFICATION?

I agree, but what about what I said above? Shouldn't the Spyder owner sign an agreement to pay all the costs associated with diagnosing the problem if it turns out it is his fault? I believe I agree with what you are saying, but if, in fact, the manufacturer/dealer say oops.. your fault - now pay us for the time it took us to figure this out - won't he only be more steamed, i.e. throwing good money after bad so to speak? I also believe that the manufacturer/dealer wins a tie, i.e. could have been our problem, could have been your problem.

It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer).

I think I have seen other people post on this FORUM they would not contemplate major MODS before the warranty runs out. Technically, any MODS might violate the agreement with the manufacturer. So he is behind the 8-ball to begin with based upon what he signed. The one fact no one is disputing is: he made MODS that affected the mechanical operation of his Spyder. That is not adding L.E.D.s to your Spyder.

P.S. If they can agree on doing the diagnosis with the customer paying the costs if the MODS may have contributed to his problem, I would get him to pay the estimate upfront. Just remember, my words are "may have contributed to his problem". They do not have to prove beyond a doubt his MODS didn't cause the problem - they are not responsible for figuring that out for him. He has to make his own case. He made the MODS not them.

Few weeks ago, I agreed with an insurance company. Now I am agreeing with a manufacturer (sort of).

Pigs are flying in central Ohio.

[Knarfoh]

Being the Devils Advocate, I would think when you Illegally Modified a Spyder; ie Tampering with an emission device, Removing the cat' O2 mod. etc, The dealer and or BRP can refuse to work on that Spyder . And I'm sure BRP's lawyers would 'if push came to shove also point out that the finds for tampering reach into the ten's of thousands. Just saying.

I always figured the devil was an attorney. Sorry - even the devil is entitled to his due sometimes.

[Bob Denman]

Pigs are flying in central Ohio.

Then I'm guessing that a regular Umbrella just ain't gonna cut the mustard!

[CyncySpyder]

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Then when DocRags had his water resevoir crack while he was not near his HOME DEALER, the dealer he took it to was well within their rights not to show Him any COURTESY because A: He didn't buy it from them and B: DocRags may or not not have used un-authorized oil in the Spyder at some time ...this is your logic on this right !!!!!!.....Mike...............And I don't mind being attacked for things I have SAID but please have the common decency to not attack me for stuff I DIDN'T SAY.....Thankyou for your attention to this little detail......Peace and Love to All.....Mike

[ARtraveler]

I am also kind of on the ride here. The dealer and BRP should look into the repair and cover it under warranty IF it can be determined that the modifications were not the cause of the problem in the first place. The problem lies within the fact that how do they determine that?

Modifications open the door to these kinds of problems. Heck, my dealer wont even install non-BRP tires on the Spyder.

[ataDude]

Just as an FYI... the TBR fuel controller is advertised as NOT being able to lean out the fuel mixture. If that is the case, I don't see how the controller can cause a lean mixture and overheating.

That is the only thing about a fuel controller that can possibly do damage... a lean fuel mixture.

[Arr MiHardies]

The dealer should have looked at the problem and determined the cause before asking BRP if it would be covered, with the customers explicit understanding that if the mods caused the issue they would be responsible for all labor and parts charges. The dealer didn't have to tell BRP about the mods at all IMO until/unless they were determined to be the cause of failure. At which point the customer should be responsible for the repairs.

[hackett43]

I agree, but what about what I said above? Shouldn't the Spyder owner sign an agreement to pay all the costs associated with diagnosing the problem if it turns out it is his fault? I believe I agree with what you are saying, but if, in fact, the manufacturer/dealer say oops.. your fault - now pay us for the time it took us to figure this out - won't he only be more steamed, i.e. throwing good money after bad so to speak? I also believe that the manufacturer/dealer wins a tie, i.e. could have been our problem, could have been your problem.

It is not up to the manufacturer/dealer to figure this out for the guy. He must ante up with a promise to pay if they determine his MODS caused the problem or may have caused the problem. Only if it is clearly the manufacturer's fault, should they pay. Also, this sounds like an expensive repair, so I am leaving the dealer free of all liability on this one. Didn't buy it there; they didn't do the MODS; they need to get paid by someone (customer or manufacturer).

I think I have seen other people post on this FORUM they would not contemplate major MODS before the warranty runs out. Technically, any MODS might violate the agreement with the manufacturer. So he is behind the 8-ball to begin with based upon what he signed. The one fact no one is disputing is: he made MODS that affected the mechanical operation of his Spyder. That is not adding L.E.D.s to your Spyder.

P.S. If they can agree on doing the diagnosis with the customer paying the costs if the MODS may have contributed to his problem, I would get him to pay the estimate upfront. Just remember, my words are "may have contributed to his problem". They do not have to prove beyond a doubt his MODS didn't cause the problem - they are not responsible for figuring that out for him. He has to make his own case. He made the MODS not them.

Few weeks ago, I agreed with an insurance company. Now I am agreeing with a manufacturer (sort of).



Pigs are flying in central Ohio.

Check out : Magnuson-Moss Act Of 1975

[spyder3]

Being the Devils Advocate, I would think when you Illegally Modified a Spyder; ie Tampering with an emission device, Removing the cat' O2 mod. etc, The dealer and or BRP can refuse to work on that Spyder . And I'm sure BRP's lawyers would 'if push came to shove also point out that the finds for tampering reach into the ten's of thousands. Just saying.

A jersey devil no less!!

[Dudley]

Everyone can have a lot of suggestions as to what you should or shouldn't do, but the facts still stand...you had a modification done to your Spyder and almost every manufacturer of autos or motorcycles will void any and all warranties if mods are done to their product. Sure, we can all insist that each case should be taken individually, but that would be very time consuming and would result in tying up the small claims courts to no end...So the reason for the blanket coverall...any mod to the product voids the warranty...Period.
You can go ahead and hire a lawyer, but I think you will lose. The dealer may have installed the mods you had done, but that doesn't put them on any blame...you wanted it done, they did it, and you paid them.
And if you read through all the papers you got from BRP when you purchased the Spyder you will probably see a written their disclaimer if the Spyder is modified.

[Sarge707]

Everyone can have a lot of suggestions as to what you should or shouldn't do, but the facts still stand...you had a modification done to your Spyder and almost every manufacturer of autos or motorcycles will void any and all warranties if mods are done to their product. Sure, we can all insist that each case should be taken individually, but that would be very time consuming and would result in tying up the small claims courts to no end...So the reason for the blanket coverall...any mod to the product voids the warranty...Period.
You can go ahead and hire a lawyer, but I think you will lose. The dealer may have installed the mods you had done, but that doesn't put them on any blame...you wanted it done, they did it, and you paid them.
And if you read through all the papers you got from BRP when you purchased the Spyder you will probably see a written their disclaimer if the Spyder is modified.

When I picked my Spyder up after my Only problem they noticed I had ESI Double Play and Center Light and informed me that was Nice BUT if I have any electrical problems (In The Future?) BRP is not going to cover that type of problem since I have after market electronics installed!
My problem was not related to electronics and was fixed.

[pellcitypete]

I too have been having trouble with BRP an my 2011 spyder-rts it's been in shop several times an I to have caught from some pepole on here.My wife an I went on our first trip 2 weeks ago while on trip I found out that the VSC an DPS also computer not working. I could start egnine with waiting for comp. to come on at all in any gear.Service teck that unloaded saw an noted start probleman DPS prob. after 1 week in shop the BRP ser rep stoped taking my phone call. the dealer I bought it from told me that BRP said that the buds showed no problem with spyder so I told the ser maneger at Big#1 to put it in writing no safety problems with my spyder and he said he had more checking to do I still think we need to start a class action! pete

[Dudley]

I too have been having trouble with BRP an my 2011 spyder-rts it's been in shop several times an I to have caught from some pepole on here.My wife an I went on our first trip 2 weeks ago while on trip I found out that the VSC an DPS also computer not working. I could start egnine with waiting for comp. to come on at all in any gear.Service teck that unloaded saw an noted start probleman DPS prob. after 1 week in shop the BRP ser rep stoped taking my phone call. the dealer I bought it from told me that BRP said that the buds showed no problem with spyder so I told the ser maneger at Big#1 to put it in writing no safety problems with my spyder and he said he had more checking to do I still think we need to start a class action! pete

A class action??? Go ahead. You got a few suggestions that you should seek another dealer and work from there. You keep going back to one that can't or won't fix the problem. Seems like what you want to hear is that we will all sign on the class action with you....WRONG!

[powerbyaj]

I had the same problem when my spyder caught fire the first year and my transmission went bad they would not cover it because i had mods. I paid for a transmission rebuild and the automatic transmission stills has problems must be my crazy riding style or my body weight on the transmission making it stay in gear and sometimes not shifting...lol. I have almost 70000 miles and affair to ride anymore because i know the engine is next to go. Yes i am complaining so no need to here anyone's smart comments...and thanks for listing.