Yes! Another tire thread...question

[JS3535]

LOOK MA, NO HANDS!

So I installed the ferderal formoza’s on the front & the Kuhmo Ecsta on the rear & boy what a difference. I did have the fronts road forced balanced & 1 took only .75oz & 1.0oz on the other. I also installed the wheel balancers from lamonster on all 3. The front end is a night & day difference for the better. I thought it steered like on rails after installing the Baja Ron sway bar but now it’s like an Indy car on rails. The front end is light & nimble and the handlebars & fenders are smooth as butter. I’m off next weekend to get it “squared away” even though it feels like I don’t need it, but I’m still going to have it checked. I went for about a 50 mile ride around town & on the freeway and handling was great. I can’t express how happy I am with these tires. I’m running 18 psi cold for those who are going to ask. Now the rear tire is a difference story.

The rear tire is the same size as factory & I was running 28 psi cold but after first test dropped it down to 25. I have a huge loss of traction. Just barely taking off from a stop if I give it too much throttle I can hear the rear tire chirping. Going around corners it drifts like a mofo, which is fun as hell but can definitely tell it might be a problem when traction is needed. Might be getting some rain next weekend & if I get stuck in it I will report back on wet conditions for both front & rear tires. I am not to happy with the rear so far, maybe the drop in psi may fix that, we will have to wait & see.

 

[Hypurone]

The rear tire is the same size as factory & I was running 28 psi cold but after first test dropped it down to 25. I have a huge loss of traction. Just barely taking off from a stop if I give it too much throttle I can hear the rear tire chirping. Going around corners it drifts like a mofo, which is fun as hell but can definitely tell it might be a problem when traction is needed. Might be getting some rain next weekend & if I get stuck in it I will report back on wet conditions for both front & rear tires. I am not to happy with the rear so far, maybe the drop in psi may fix that, we will have to wait & see.

I'm running 16 in my Kuhmo AST and it is doing much better in the grip dept. Can still spin it up but it is still much better than the Kenda. I'm still searching for a more preformance oriented tire but as you know the choices are non-existent in a 225/50. Debating on whether or not a 215/60 in a performance line will overcome the reduction in tread width. ....

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

WIDTH DIFFERENCE

I'm running 16 in my Kuhmo AST and it is doing much better in the grip dept. Can still spin it up but it is still much better than the Kenda. I'm still searching for a more preformance oriented tire but as you know the choices are non-existent in a 225/50. Debating on whether or not a 215/60 in a performance line will overcome the reduction in tread width. ....

There are four tires with much better traction ( wet & dry ) that I can speak for .... An Altimax , a Pirelli, & two Michelin's ..... 10mm is about 3/8 th of an inch .......on a Hayabusa this could make a difference ....... on a Spyder, I wouldn't have any concerns especially in turning traction ...... jmho ... Mike ......PS check my thread on the new Defender model ....... :thumbup:

 

[trikermutha]

Yes, I already have those & tried those. After a little bit of mix up (I removed all the weight then installed balancers, come to find out you’re supposed to leave the weight on) I had the wheels rebalanced & it seems to be worse than before. I’m going with new tires just because I’ve heard so many bad thing about the Kendra’s, thinking they may be the problem & because new tires are only about $100. I’m hoping this does the trick.

I have tried tires,balanced them several times. And believe the wheels are the problem. I finally found a place that balanced my wheels with a road force balancer and fixed the problem.
I was amazed how many tire places do not balance a wheel correctly even noticed this on my car tires too.

Also tried the centratic balancers and didn't work well, then found out to leave the weights on but never went back to try the centramatic balancers yet.

 

[JS3535]

I'm running 16 in my Kuhmo AST and it is doing much better in the grip dept. Can still spin it up but it is still much better than the Kenda. I'm still searching for a more preformance oriented tire but as you know the choices are non-existent in a 225/50. Debating on whether or not a 215/60 in a performance line will overcome the reduction in tread width. ....

I am going to drop the front to 15 & the rear to 20 and go for another test run.

To the guy who made the comment that it might be in the wheels, could be correct. Before they mounted my tires they spun the wheels by them self to check them. They both needed the exact same weight before & after mounting the tire. Coincidence? Perhaps. What I don’t know if the weight was called for in the same spot before & after. Also when mounting the Formosa’s on the front wheels they had a hell of a time setting the bead, meaning it was really tight fit on the wheel. I know it probably has something to do with the “car tire” on a motorcycle wheel, so I don’t want to hear it. Also good to know that may help from pushing off the bead due to running to low air pressure, 4x4 & dune guys know what I mean.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

tire issues

I am going to drop the front to 15 & the rear to 20 and go for another test run.

To the guy who made the comment that it might be in the wheels, could be correct. Before they mounted my tires they spun the wheels by them self to check them. They both needed the exact same weight before & after mounting the tire. Coincidence? Perhaps. What I don’t know if the weight was called for in the same spot before & after. Also when mounting the Formosa’s on the front wheels they had a hell of a time setting the bead, meaning it was really tight fit on the wheel. I know it probably has something to do with the “car tire” on a motorcycle wheel, so I don’t want to hear it. Also good to know that may help from pushing off the bead due to running to low air pressure, 4x4 & dune guys know what I mean.

Imbalance in wheels is caused by the same thing as in tires .... somewhere on the object you are checking the balance for, has more material, hence more weight. I'm reasonably sure the weight was put in the same place when the tire was re-checked for balance, unless the tire it-self was badly out of Balance ....... It has been proven ( on this forum ) that the BRP wheels are 99 % identical to the ones made for cars ......... I've had many, many tires put on BRP wheels and never had a Mounting issue ..... As far as " pushing off the bead " well I accidently ran my Michelin rear tire at 8lbs for about 15 miles mostly on a dirt road, and it was only slightly " squirrelly " at the slower speed I was driving at ..... when I looked at it, it didn't look Bad, only less than normal ( Michelin's have much stiffer sidewalls than Kenda's ) but it didn't break the Bead seal, because if that occurred it would have gone flat immediately....... Mike :thumbup:

 

[trikermutha]

I mounted the Formozas myself and had no issues. Did they put the wheel in the correct way be fore installing the tire? Low side of the wheel.

Well anyway good luck..

 

[JS3535]

I mounted the Formozas myself and had no issues. Did they put the wheel in the correct way be fore installing the tire? Low side of the wheel.

Well anyway good luck..

Wheel the correct way? Low side of the wheel? Please explain.

The tire went on the wheel fine, just when applying air pressure to set the bead is when there was a problem. They really had to soap them up to get it to “pop” on. Make sense?

 

[Hypurone]

Wheel the correct way? Low side of the wheel? Please explain.

The tire went on the wheel fine, just when applying air pressure to set the bead is when there was a problem. They really had to soap them up to get it to “pop” on. Make sense?

By low side he means the "thinner" side. Meaning, if you look at the widths of the wheel sections to either side of the center "well", one side is narrower and a tire should ONLY be mounted from this side. Made for a sh1tload of fun watching newbies try to mount tires on wheels where they had to go on from the inside of the wheel vs the normal outside! :roflblack: Those these types of wheels are rare and far between...

As far as seating the beads, that is due to the contour of the "well" on the wheel. At its edge where the tire needs to go up and over to seat, it is a rather sharp angle..... and when both beads are pushing to get over there respective "humps" at the same time it can make things a PITA! Been there done that. Now imagine mounting a 40 or 35 series tire with REALLY stiff sidewalls!

The trick I used when I was doing that sort of thing, was to wipe one bead clean and dry, then lube the other bead and get it to seat then lube the last bead. I had to mention that to the tire shop that was doing my AZ01's and couldn't get them seated either..... :banghead:

 

[trikermutha]

:agree: and I have used a strap around the wheel to sometimes get the bead to seat. :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

Imbalance in wheels is caused by the same thing as in tires .... somewhere on the object you are checking the balance for, has more material, hence more weight. I'm reasonably sure the weight was put in the same place when the tire was re-checked for balance, unless the tire it-self was badly out of Balance ....... It has been proven ( on this forum ) that the BRP wheels are 99 % identical to the ones made for cars ......... I've had many, many tires put on BRP wheels and never had a Mounting issue ..... As far as " pushing off the bead " well I accidently ran my Michelin rear tire at 8lbs for about 15 miles mostly on a dirt road, and it was only slightly " squirrelly " at the slower speed I was driving at ..... when I looked at it, it didn't look Bad, only less than normal ( Michelin's have much stiffer sidewalls than Kenda's ) but it didn't break the Bead seal, because if that occurred it would have gone flat immediately....... Mike :thumbup:

The bead ramp area behind the seat is different on different style BRP and PPA wheels. We have never had an ounce of trouble mounting tires on the spoke rims or the blades. Now the shamrock wheels...those are a major PIA to get tires on and beads to seat. Its the shape of the ramp, not the tire. We have learned for those wheels to be extra careful with the mounting lube and it takes a bit more pressure to get them to seat. Some PPA wheels are a bit more trouble too but not as bad as the Shamrocks.

Its all in the interior shape of the wheel and how the ramp guides (or does not) the tire bead to the rim seat.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I am going to drop the front to 15 & the rear to 20 and go for another test run.

To the guy who made the comment that it might be in the wheels, could be correct. Before they mounted my tires they spun the wheels by them self to check them. They both needed the exact same weight before & after mounting the tire. Coincidence? Perhaps. What I don’t know if the weight was called for in the same spot before & after. Also when mounting the Formosa’s on the front wheels they had a hell of a time setting the bead, meaning it was really tight fit on the wheel. I know it probably has something to do with the “car tire” on a motorcycle wheel, so I don’t want to hear it. Also good to know that may help from pushing off the bead due to running to low air pressure, 4x4 & dune guys know what I mean.

Car tire on a Motorcycle wheel ….really ….:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ……..... Mike hyea:

 

[JS3535]

Brought this one back to life did ya!