Will my 2024 F3T need a belt vibration damper?

[AndysF3S]

The manual for my 22 F3S says that 775N +/- 150N is the correct number but I don't work in N and the conversion seems to be 174 lbf with a +/- of 34 lbf. which would be 140-218 lb/f which might put your new belt in the top of the range maybe allowing for a bit of wear and stretch.

I measured mine with the Krikit and found it to be a bit inconsistent but after several readings it seemed to be reading about 200 and the belt feels tight. This was with the wheels on the ground not with the rear wheel suspended as the manual calls for so a relative reading at best and it will change with the wheel suspended.

For those who have an idler pulley (dampener) it is easily seen when looking forward from the rear muffler side ahead of the shock/spring and you can see it and touch it without disassembly. Mine is easily moved up or down with one finger pressure (not much downward spring force) and it is aligned evenly over the belt. I tried rocking the roller up and down and sideways and it is solid, but I only have about 3500 miles since new.

That brings up a new question: older (2015 as an example year) F3s had a vibration problem and the 2022 (as one example year) addressed the issue with an idler pulley. Now the 2024 F3 doesn't have the idler pulley. Does Can-Am feel the 2024 doesn't have that vibration anymore?

IMO, I would run your machine as is and see if it develops a vibration; if not, you are good to go in stock form.

 

[PMK]

I am going to "let it run". That tensioner is wider than the belt. Guessing I could maybe remove a shim or add one to where the tensioner is mounted to make up for that maybe 1/16-1/8" part of the belt it is missing. To me that's not worth the effort.

As stated earlier... I am NOT going remove the caps and axle nut, add more belt tension, check the alignment and put it all back together. The lower belt tension with the roller tensioner on just seems to be working fine for me. That also should be easier on the pulley bearings in the front.

Do appreciate the alert to this tensioner existence and position. Something for me to watch in the future.

FWIW, not sure why you keep revisiting the need to loosen the axle and make adjustments. Not needed at all if the belt tracks correct and the tension is acceptable.

The concern with your damper / tensioner is that unit alone. Being oem BRP, the arm may have developed freeplay, the rollers bearing may be failing, or more simply, when installed the person did not align the damper / tensioner bracket correctly.

To be correct, with the drive belt rolled forward, the roller should center over the belt. Also, the roller / roller mounting bolt should be at 90* the the belts length.

If the arm mounting, or any other parameter such as wear, positioned the roller at an angle upon the belts surface, not only will the roller life be reduced, but the belts surface will wear.

Kind of like turning the steering, the wheels go at an angle, but imagine if they understeered and you went straight with turned wheels.

Simply be careful, will not be fun trashing a belt and ruining a trip.

 

[Woodaddict]

View attachment 208981 View attachment 208980
My lower belt tension is 85 ft. lbs. on my Cricket gauge under the bottom of the belt. Not changing it as it runs fine.

Just to make sure you are getting an accurate reading, the kricket gauge should be on TOP side or smooth side; in the middle of the belt related to the pulleys; in line with the belt; and in the middle of its width. Reading it this way, with the wheel on the ground, I have mine as well as with many others, at 160. That little finger trying to pop up resting on the teeth of the belt doesn't let it function properly.

 

[Captainmal]

To get a belt reading from the top of the belt would require removal of the belt guard. Otherwise you cannot get your finger with Krikit gauge on top of the belt. I have been pushing up on the underside (flat) of the belt as it returns to the rear sprocket. The results vary with where I push up. This picture was taken after pushing up about at the area of the passenger footage. Hard to read but it now seems to be in the 100 - 140 ft. lbs each time I try with the wheels on the ground.

Next issue might be based on your experience. Is it reasonable to remove the panels, take off the belt guard and gain access to that tensioner? Then if so, could that tensioner be moved or shimmed outward to gain that little bit of contact that mine shows is missing from the belt?

 

[Mikey]

Your Vibration Dampener is bolted in only spot it can be to my knowledge as far as front to back, now it can be twisted side to side, it should be as close to 90 degrees to the belt as you can get it, with the belt as near to perfect adjustment as you can get also! You already know what I would do with the whole works from my last post! opcorn:

 

[Dasmoetorhead]

Gee that is a surprise to me. The tensioner seems like it is riding fine and the belt seems both centered on the front pulley and has a gap from the inside on the rear. I guess that tensioner could be a little more "outside" but not much of an issue to me. The little Cricket gauge shows it to be just in the 80 ft. lbs range on the bottom of the belt. I am not going to loosen up the caps and add more tension as all seems to run fine just the way it is.

What do you see that is wrong or a cause for concern with a wear pattern?

All I see is some paint on the roller from the belt lettering being transferred. I don't see any wear. Looks G2G to me.

 

[Captainmal]

REVISED KRIKIT READING

Took the belt guard off after taking the bike for a short ride to go shopping. 37 mpg at the pump but I digress. With the belt off I took multiple readings from the top down. All were in the 260-270 ft. lbs reading.



You can also see in this picture the belt looks perfect. Now for another revelation. That "tensioner" does not apply much tension.

I reached forward and easily pulled up that tensioner. I do mean rather easily. The thing must just be some kind of "flutter device". It is not pushing down on the belt with much pressure. Just enough to crush something into the belt top as you see stuck right before the roller.



Tried pushing the tensioner outward and the bolt holding it in place immediately hits the side of the attaching piece as shown. You can rather easily push it to both sides of the belt. It probably moves around during operation.

My conclusions are the belt is tensioned properly. You only get a proper reading taking the belt guard off and going top/down. The tensioner applies little belt pressure so must only aid in suppressing any "flutter" of the belt, if at all. That tensioner does not seem like it could induce any belt wear unless the bearings crapped out inside the roller.

Life is good! Let's ride.

 

[Peter Aawen]

^^ All that is because that roller sitting on the top of your belt is NOT a 'Tensioner'! :banghead:

The ONLY thing that these roller jobbies are planned/installed to do is to stop or dampen the 'harmonic vibration' that can occur in the rest of the Spyder because there's a long reach of belt between the two pulleys, and in certain circumstances (at certain speeds?) that stretch of tight belt can vibrate & 'sing' juuust enough to induce a harmonic resonance that can be felt elsewhere &/or throughout the Spyder as a vibration!! :shocked: nojoke

It only takes the lightest of touches to stop/damp down the stretched belt chord from 'singing' in the way that causes this harmonic vibration, so the roller doesn't need to 'tighten the belt' like a true tensioner would, it really doesn't need to do very much at all; and as many have found, another simple and perfectly acceptable way of achieving the same thing is to adjust/vary the belt tension a little so that it stops that 'singing' from happening in the first place & therefore it can't induce the harmonic vibration that bothers some!!!

There's simply no need to apply any real pressure or tension to the roller in order to change the 'tension' in the belt, that's done elsewhere; so that roller is just sitting there rolling away madly on top of the belt to dampen down any oscillation in the tight belt cos it's stretched taut during operation... Or if you like, the roller is held by a light spring so that it's always touching and running on the belt like that in order to stop/dampen down the little 'flutter' or up & down movements in the stretched chord of belt that make the belt 'sing' in a way that can cause the rest of the Spyder to harmonically vibrate in various ways/places! :lecturef_smilie:

There's No real 'tension' involved at all, just a madly spinning roller running in close proximity to the belt, a roller that's spinning on tiny bearings that're in turn spinning at an exponentially higher rate so that eventually, those bearings will HAVE to fail and then some part of that dampener will probably take the belt out! :gaah:

Have I said that it's NOT a 'belt tensioner' as such, it's only a vibration Dampener enough yet?? :dontknow: :bdh:

 

[Captainmal]

^^ All that is because that roller sitting on the top of your belt is NOT a 'Tensioner'! :banghead:

The ONLY thing that these roller jobbies are planned/installed to do is to stop or dampen the 'harmonic vibration' that can occur in the rest of the Spyder because there's a long reach of belt between the two pulleys, and in certain circumstances (at certain speeds?) that stretch of tight belt can vibrate & 'sing' juuust enough to induce a harmonic resonance that can be felt elsewhere &/or throughout the Spyder as a vibration!! :shocked: nojoke

It only takes the lightest of touches to stop/damp down the stretched belt chord from 'singing' in the way that causes this harmonic vibration, so the roller doesn't need to 'tighten the belt' like a true tensioner would, it really doesn't need to do very much at all; and as many have found, another simple and perfectly acceptable way of achieving the same thing is to adjust/vary the belt tension a little so that it stops that 'singing' from happening in the first place & therefore it can't induce the harmonic vibration that bothers some!!!

There's No real 'tension' involved at all, just a madly spinning roller running in close proximity to the belt, a roller that's spinning on tiny bearings that're in turn spinning at an exponentially higher rate so that eventually, those bearings will HAVE to fail and then some part of that dampener will probably take the belt out! :gaah:

Have I said that it's NOT a 'belt tensioner' as such, it's only a vibration Dampener enough yet?? :dontknow: :bdh:

Your summary sure matches the information. Thanks.

I did not know there was such a thing on my bike until the topic came up. Others called it a "tensioner" so I did. Then when I took off the belt guard and lifted the thing up it confirmed everything you said. Now my take is you should not be correct on everything. Guessing the little bearings on that "flutter roller" have such little pressure that they will last and last and last.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Your summary sure matches the information. Thanks.

I did not know there was such a thing on my bike until the topic came up. Others called it a "tensioner" so I did. Then when I took off the belt guard and lifted the thing up it confirmed everything you said. Now my take is you should not be correct on everything. Guessing the little bearings on that "flutter roller" have such little pressure that they will last and last and last.

Should 'last & last' is a reasonable assumption, but we all know what that 'makes an Ass (of) you (and) me' thing does! :cus:

There's more'n just a couple of Spyder Owners who've posted here to suggest otherwise, and they tell us that replacement belts can be pretty expensive, IF that's all that needs replacing after the roller bearings &/or Damper arm fail, as they do! :yikes:

These bolt-on Dampers are a pretty crummy 'add-on band-aid' solution to a problem that is solved or at least minimised by many with greater safety simply by adjusting the drive belt tension, usually 'down a bit' from the guitar string tight OEM Spec!

Just Sayin' :thumbup:

 

[PMK]

If it matters Captainmal, should be about 66,000,000 revolutions each 5000 miles for the larger diameter aftermarket rollers. The smaller diameter BRP oem setup is more.

My friends 2021 arrived with an oem BRP setup on it. He removed the oem and upgraded to a Lamonster aftermarket setup.

Saw him the other day. Had him order a new replacement Lamonster roller. His has about 10,000 miles on it. So easy simple swap low cost too.

This will also let me get a look inside the bearing to inspect for roughness, wear, lube issues etc.

 

[Captainmal]

Under 2K miles on mine. Good idea for me in a few more thousand. Others too.

Thanks.

 

[Yabbadabbadoo]

The OEM roller and bearing failed on my F3-S somewhere around 10,000 miles. It gouged the belt so my dealer gave me a new damper assembly and belt under warranty. I replace them myself but I used the Lamonster roller instead of the OEM. I now have an additional 30,000 miles on the bike and no issue so far with the Lamonster roller. But I ordered a new one and I will be installing it any day now - just in case.

 

[EdMat]

It's not that hard to reach under the left side, raise the arm and spin the roller while feeling for bearing problems. You don't even have to look at what you are doing, just feel.

I wish that lowering or raising the belt tension would have removed the vibration, or lowered it to a tolerable level. Didn't work out that way for my 2019. I would love to do away with the dampener and not have to worry about it. Didn't work out that way so will gladly check the bearings and roller from time to time so I can have a pleasant ride.

 

[wagswvu]

I don't know when they started, but pretty sure all new Spyder's come with a factory BRP belt tensioner these days. My 23 F3s did, I however swapped it out with a Lamonster one since it's more heavy duty.

 

[BajaRon]

REVISED KRIKIT READING

Now for another revelation. That "tensioner" does not apply much tension.

^^ All that is because that roller sitting on the top of your belt is NOT a 'Tensioner'! :banghead:

Peter! You are man after my own heart. We carry this torch of enlightenment together!

It is, of course, a belt DAMPENER, NOT a belt Tensioner! But do you think preaching this for low, these many years, will eventually convert the masses? I'm not holding my breath on this one! :banghead:

But be encouraged, Peter. We have one more who has seen the light! And there is great satisfaction in this!

 

[PMK]

Peter! You are man after my own heart. We carry this torch of enlightenment together!

It is, of course, a belt DAMPENER, NOT a belt Tensioner! But do you think preaching this for low, these many years, will eventually convert the masses? I'm not holding my breath on this one! :banghead:

But be encouraged, Peter. We have one more who has seen the light! And there is great satisfaction in this!

View attachment 209142

If it matters, correctly the device is a damper, not dampener.

A dampener would make the belt wet.

Deal with these terms a lot in the suspension industry.

 

[BajaRon]

If it matters, correctly the device is a damper, not dampener.

A dampener would make the belt wet.

Deal with these terms a lot in the suspension industry.

You may have a point here. However, I submit this (friendly intentioned) Google Definition.

A dampener is someone or something that dampens. So damper and dampener can both refer to one that deadens sound vibrations. But damper does not work for something that makes something slightly wet.