Why would you want an asymmetrical rear tire?

[Chasinsparks]

TEST DUMMY UPDATE: I rode toady about 150 miles in pouring rain. I never had any problems even with the standing water in the road. We hit speeds up to 65 mph through winding roads, up and down hills again it was literally pouring for several hours. I mounted my rear with the inside toward the right/brake side.


I'm no tire professional, all I can say is I had no hydroplane issue at all.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

TEST DUMMY UPDATE: I rode toady about 150 miles in pouring rain. I never had any problems even with the standing water in the road. We hit speeds up to 65 mph through winding roads, up and down hills again it was literally pouring for several hours. I mounted my rear with the inside toward the right/brake side.


I'm no tire professional, all I can say is I had no hydroplane issue at all.

Thank you Test person …. imho " asymmetrical " is more Sales hype than any real benefit you will get from using a tire that is designated " asymmetrical " …...….. it also sounds like you approve of the Vredestein's :thumbup::thumbup: ………. Mike hyea:

 

[Chasinsparks]

Mike

I personally approve of them, I like how they ride and handle. We just turn over 600 miles on them this weekend alone through some hills, and curvy road and I had zero issues. The first day as I said it poured and I had nothing but confidence the Vredestein Quatrac 5. On all three.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike

I personally approve of them, I like how the ride and handle. We just turn over 600 miles on them this weekend alone through some hills, and curvy road and I had zero issues. The first day as I said it poured and I had nothing but confidence the Vredestein Quatrac 5. On all three.

Glad I could assist in your tire choice and very glad you like them ….. thanks …. Mike hyea:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Further to my earlier post about how little untoward effect these mildly asymetric tires have on your handling, you might want to try this little quiz that may just put the 'symetric vs asymmetric' discussion into a clearer perspective....

Sorry, I must apologise for the 'quality' of the dodgy pics up front, and cos I'm not at home or near the skid pan today, I only had access to few tires, but I think they'll serve, so here goes: -

Which of these 6 tires do you consider to be symetric &/or can be readily run in either direction (possibly but not necessarily on a Spyder) & which do you think are asymetric &/or should only be run in one direction?

 

[BoilerAnimal]

I ain't scared, so I'll take a stab at it.

#2 is the only asymmetrical tire, #1 is directional, #1,3,4,5,6 are symmetrical.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks for being brave enough to give it a go, and I'll say that you are correct about #1 being directional :thumbup:

But while I will neither confirm or deny anything about any/all the others, I think I'll hold off on the reveal for them for a while, maybe see if anyone else wants to put up their thoughts... opcorn:

 

[h0gr1der]

Further to my earlier post about how little untoward effect these mildly asymetric tires have on your handling, you might want to try this little quiz that may just put the 'symetric vs asymmetric' discussion into a clearer perspective....

Sorry, I must apologise for the 'quality' of the dodgy pics up front, and cos I'm not at home or near the skid pan today, I only had access to few tires, but I think they'll serve, so here goes: -

Which of these 6 tires do you consider to be symetric &/or can be readily run in either direction (possibly but not necessarily on a Spyder) & which do you think are asymetric &/or should only be run in one direction?

I'll take a stab at it, but I'm not a tire guru.

1 looks to be symmetrical and directional.
2-5 may all be asymmetric as the grooves (sipes?) do not mirror each other. I'm a little fuzzy if the asymmetric description would only count for the very outer bands.
6-Can't say. Shadow is in the way.

 

[jcthorne]

Further to my earlier post about how little untoward effect these mildly asymetric tires have on your handling, you might want to try this little quiz that may just put the 'symetric vs asymmetric' discussion into a clearer perspective....

Sorry, I must apologise for the 'quality' of the dodgy pics up front, and cos I'm not at home or near the skid pan today, I only had access to few tires, but I think they'll serve, so here goes: -

Which of these 6 tires do you consider to be symetric &/or can be readily run in either direction (possibly but not necessarily on a Spyder) & which do you think are asymetric &/or should only be run in one direction?

you are confusing symmetric with directional. All but one of those tires are symmetric, IE the same left to right. The first one, a Kenda is directional but not asymmetric. and can only run in one direction. Directional are NOT what this thread are speaking of.

 

[Peter Aawen]

you are confusing symmetric with directional. All but one of those tires are symmetric, IE the same left to right. The first one, a Kenda is directional but not asymmetric. and can only run in one direction. Directional are NOT what this thread are speaking of.

Actually, no, JC. You too have fallen for it & got all but the first one incorrect. :sour:

And the confusion re symetric/asymetric vs directional/non-directional bit is purposefully and partly the point of putting up the quiz. Anyone else want to take a punt? :dontknow:

Ps, h0gr1der, you got the first one correct on all counts, and have come very close re the rest too! :congrats:

 

[PMK]

Peter, for whatever reason, and unknown to me as to why, the automotive industry is a bit wonky in how they define tires.

To most people, a symmetric tire would project a mirror image based off the tires rotating centerline. I believe the auto tire folks often call this a directional tire.

The tires we deem as asymmetrical on Spyders, i thought the automotive folks considered them symmetrical, basing symmetry as the vehicles centerline and not the tires rotating centerline. In these cases, the tires can be rotated to either the left or right side of the vehicle.

The true fact in regards to tires is that when a tire is used on a motorcycle, technically based on two rolling wheels on the same centerline tracking, I doubt you will find anything but a true symmetric tire, with mirrored treaded.

All that said, when an automotive tire is installed on a motorcycle, the automotive definitions regarding basic tread pattern being symmetric or not are essentially null and void. The obvious gray area are the non centerline tires on a trike, the Spyder included. However, to apply automotive definitions to all tires or only outrigger tires when installed on a motorcycle certainly appears out of context.

Consider how incorrect it could be to apply the terms we use for moto tires against automotive tires.

In my opinion. The easiest way to consider tires for a Spyder, does the tire have a symmetrical tread pattern based on if a mirror is placed on the treads centerline. If there is no mirror image, the tire is asymmetric.

Going further, some asymmetric tires are what I call equal but opposite. Meaning the tread pattern does not mirror, but is equal but opposite angled tread blocks. Theses tires are not normally labeled inner or outer edge.

Then we have tires that are asymmetrical based on using the mirror technique, but are not equal but opposite. These tires present essentially two entirely different tread patterns where inner treads blocks differ greatly from outer tread blocks.

So in regards to answering your photo quiz, you need to stipulate, are you installing the tires on a motorcycle or on a car.

 

[bayoubill]

so whats the best rear tire for 4 seasons? i have to get one as soon as i get my dess problems fixed, the more i read here the more confused i am

 

[Spyderlass]

Which of these 6 tires do you consider to be symetric &/or can be readily run in either direction (possibly but not necessarily on a Spyder) & which do you think are asymetric &/or should only be run in one direction?

OK, I'll bite. I'm on my phone so I hope the order of the pics is correct!
1 is symmetrical and directional
2 is assymmetric and needs to be fitted with the lower part of your picture outwards.
3,4,5 and 6 are assymmetric.
3, 4 and 5 can be run both ways but
6, the mud and snow one, may have an outside edge, it's difficult to tell from your pic whether it's just the varying tread block size around the tyre circumference or a different pattern on each side. It certainly looks different side to side.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Peter, for whatever reason, and unknown to me as to why, the automotive industry is a bit wonky in how they define tires. [ Add 'and the tire industry' after the auto industry & I have to agree!]

To most people, a symmetric tire would project a mirror image based off the tires rotating centerline. I believe the auto tire folks often call this a directional tire. [That is (usually but not exclusively) true. See your comment above!]

The tires we deem as asymmetrical on Spyders, i thought the automotive folks considered them symmetrical [umm, once again, usually but not necessarily...] basing symmetry as the vehicles centerline and not the tires rotating centerline. that is the case - - sometimes...] In these cases, the tires can be rotated to either the left or right side of the vehicle. [Yes!]

The true fact in regards to tires is that when a tire is used on a motorcycle, technically based on two rolling wheels on the same centerline tracking, I doubt you will find anything but a true symmetric tire, with mirrored treaded. [For motorcycle tires, that IS usually the case... there are a few exceptions that aren't necessarily important here or re Spyders.

All that said, when an automotive tire is installed on a motorcycle, the automotive definitions regarding basic tread pattern being symmetric or not are essentially null and void. [Yeah, I can see what you are saying, not necessarily tho] The obvious gray area are the non centerline tires on a trike, the Spyder included. [It clearly is a grey area] However, to apply automotive definitions to all tires or only outrigger tires when installed on a motorcycle certainly appears out of context. [Again, not necessarily....]

Consider how incorrect it could be to apply the terms we use for moto tires against automotive tires.

In my opinion. [Not only yours!] The easiest way to consider tires for a Spyder, does the tire have a symmetrical tread pattern based on if a mirror is placed on the treads centerline. If there is no mirror image, the tire is asymmetric. [That is (at least generally) true - more on this later!]

Going further, some asymmetric tires are what I call equal but opposite. Meaning the tread pattern does not mirror, but is equal but opposite angled tread blocks. Theses tires are not normally labeled inner or outer edge. [That is correct, & very applicable to our discussion & at least some of the confusion seen here in this thread.]

Then we have tires that are asymmetrical based on using the mirror technique, but are not equal but opposite. These tires present essentially two entirely different tread patterns where inner treads blocks differ greatly from outer tread blocks. [Yes!]

So in regards to answering your photo quiz, you need to stipulate, are you installing the tires on a motorcycle or on a car. [It's not really essential, but rather than trying to expound on that here, can I suggest that what I put up later might help clarify that?! ].

My comments in [Bold] You've hit on some very important points in this, and I believe also some points that are causing a lot of the confusion in this thread!

Asymetrical tires don't necessarily have any different inside/outside tire carcass construction &/or different inside/outside tread compounds, many of them aren't even marked inside/outside because it just doesn't matter with them, but some (not too many yet!) high performance asymetrical tires DO have those markings & either or both of the construction/compound differences! And it's THOSE FEW with markings and either/both of the different construction or compound differences that are quite likely unsuitable for use on the rear of our Spyders, largely due to the potential for un-even drive under some conditions in a single drive tire application, so you really should check with the tire manufacturer before trying them on your Spyder/Ryker! However, most of those 'mildly asymetrical' tires that aren't labelled inside/outside (& even some that are) can be safely used as drive tires on Spyders, and as can be seen from the posts & threads here, some of them already have, very successfully!

Another point is that while most Symetrical tires are Directional, it's not mandatory; and many Asymetrical tires aren't Directional at all! However, tires that are Directional AND Symetrical are usually specialist tires of some type (Performance, Dry, or Wet, et al) while most Non-directional tires are either General Purpose or All Season tires. The terms Symetrical/Asymetrical & Directional/Non-Directional aren't necessarily interchangeable, altho there are some instances when they may be - but that's just because the Auto & Tire Manufacturers are frequently just ornery & contrary! (See PMK's first comment above!)

And rather than going on forever about this, there are already some very good descriptions about the differences between Symetrical & Asymetrical tires; here's a link to just one - a pretty good one too!

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/symmetric-vs-asymmetric-tires#

Check out the pics of the Asymetrical Tires, especially the one identified as one of the best produced - maybe you can compare their tread patterns to my quiz pics... do any look similar at all? :dontknow:

As for the quiz, most have worked out that pic 1 is a Kenda, and yes, they are both directional and symetrical. However, ALL the rest are technically Asymetrical but NONE of them are Directional! Why would anyone be concerned about running them on their Spyder? Oh, and I should say that I know that tires of each those brands & tread patterns have all been run as the drive tire on a Spyder, and all but pic 6 on the front, too! Plus, at least arguably anyway, as well as lasting longer & costing less, they've ALL provided better performance for their users than the OE Spec Kendas did, both in the dry & the wet (well, when they are run at an appropriate pressure for their loadings anyway! )

So why aren't we all out there Ryding more & worrying less? :lecturef_smilie:

 

[PinkRosePetal]

so whats the best rear tire for 4 seasons? i have to get one as soon as i get my dess problems fixed, the more i read here the more confused i am

:dontknow: There isn't a best one....you get to choose. That's the fun of the game! Here's a site that might help you where you can get info, pictures of the tread, wet grip, noise level, fuel efficiency, load ratings and speed ratings. Click on the tyre picture to get more info. Use the side bar to select summer, all season or winter fitment to narrow your search.

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finde...fVHJMRGVmU0kFA+KUpDvT/Xqwx3gmizH9hd30xIFoHFKA

 

[bayoubill]

:dontknow: There isn't a best one....you get to choose. That's the fun of the game! Here's a site that might help you where you can get info, pictures of the tread, wet grip, noise level, fuel efficiency, load ratings and speed ratings. Click on the tyre picture to get more info. Use the side bar to select summer, all season or winter fitment to narrow your search.

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finde...fVHJMRGVmU0kFA+KUpDvT/Xqwx3gmizH9hd30xIFoHFKA

i know there isn't a best, but there's always one brand most run, at least on every other brand bike i've ever had before there was always one that a majority ran.

 

[wingit3611]

Mike

I personally approve of them, I like how the ride and handle. We just turn over 600 miles on them this weekend alone through some hills, and curvy road and I had zero issues. The first day as I said it poured and I had nothing but confidence the Vredestein Quatrac 5. On all three.

Be nice if you added your tire pressure. Only because everyone is different and has his or her's preferred settings. Different tires like different air pressure' maybe a pound this or pound that way, but that's the way the owner like his. Just curious?

 

[AeroPilot]

Go to a Rally and in addition to checking out other bikes mods, if you're interested in tires, check out the tread patterns and wear and ask the riders. Everyone rides a little different and often you can get a better feel for those that ride similar to you and what they like, not just the most vocal posts. But the forums are great for opinions as well. The last couple of Spyderfests and the Red Rocks Rally had mostly stock Kendas that I saw, but a mix of other tires on the RTs and F3s that I checked.

 

[SpyderAnn01]

i know there isn't a best, but there's always one brand most run, at least on every other brand bike i've ever had before there was always one that a majority ran.

The most popular at this time are the General Altimax RT43 (my preferred tire), Yokohama S Drive, Vredestein, and the Kumho. There was a time, before people started experimenting with different sized tires, that the only car tire people used was the Kumho Ecsta, and that was ONLY because it was available in the stock size. You will still get people recommending them but they are not a great tire, they are just the tire that that particular person chose. Others will opt for the Vee Rubber Arachnid tire since it also is marked For Special Motorcycle Use Only, it is as bad as or worse than the Kenda but people think it is good because of that wording.

You need to do your research and choose accordingly. Just remember that most people don’t put many miles on their Spyders and their opinions should be based on that.

 

[Spyderlass]

....there's always one brand most run,

Yes, but be wary of the sheep effect, imho.