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White knuckle test ride - can I learn to like this? Buy newish or older/cheaper?

F

FlyingBoat

New member
Short version:
Long time MC rider. Test rode Spyder RT yesterday. It scared the death out of me. Wife loved it.

Long version:

I don't do bike tours etc. Motor Cycle riding has always just been a means of transportation to get from A to B.
If I am going A to B, I might as well have fun doing it.

My latest bike, a 2001 Honda Reflex, just died on me after 23 years. Tranny out and can't find parts.
I ride the scooter because it was just easy to hop and go, and kept me out of speed concerns, lol, with my other bikes in the past like Honda V45, Triumph Triple, etc. It was just fun to hop and go. I enjoyed the 10 to 30 mile jaunts on it, versus taking a car.

I also have a Crossfire SRT6 at my winter house in Phoenix, which is also fun to run around on.

For my summer house, we moved further out in the country to be closer to grandkids. That means now I need to go 30 minutes or so to get to normal hang outs. I can take the interstate freeway which cuts it down to 22 minutes or back roads at 30+. Didn't like riding the Reflex on the freeway, even though I had years of doing so. Been doing more the SRT6 Crossfire the last few years, (which is now relocated to my winter house).

So, since the Reflex died. Time to upgrade. Could get nice new scooter, like a Suzuki Burgman or BMW C400, or even a low mile Reflex or Forza.

But I am thinking now more about safety, and at times I would like to take the freeway which is quicker. Safety is one of the reasons I bought the Crossfire in the first place, to have fun going A to B, with extra margin of safety, which put the Scooter into the shed a couple of years.

Anyway, thinking through it, I was thinking a Spyder could add more safety. We would have room for it in our garage, rather than bringing the Crossfire back up here as well. The other thing I thought is that maybe my wife might be interested. The Reflex used to be hers, but she never rode it much, which I was OK with, because I was concerned about her safety anyway. (She did ride it from Atlanta to MN 23 years ago when we bought it, and loved it, but has hardly been on it since, lol.)

So we went to try the Spyder yesterday. She knew nothing about them. To my shock, she loved it. She found it so comfortable. She loved to drive it and loved it as the passenger as well. It was so comfortable to her. She would never be the passenger on my other Motor Cycles.

Me on the other hand. It was harrowing. Hell, I have flown ultralights that I had more confidence in than the Spyder. It was just so unnatural. Situations I would ride the scooter on with no thought had my stomach in my throat on the Spyder. Hell with the traffic behind me, I am going slow because I don't know where this thing is going. Is it going to hit the guardrail or go into the other lane, I don't know. When my wife was driving and I was a passenger, I was scared to death she was going to hit the guardrail or wander off into other traffic as well.

I don't have experience riding a snowmobile. I think the one time I did ride 55 years ago I ran into a shed. I used to have powerful jet skis that would turn on a dime, but they didn't hurt me much when they threw me off into the water. It just wasn't fun for me. I am just recovering from a bad cold with headache issues, so it could be that. But I couldn't wait to get off that thing.

I thought my wife would feel the same after the ride. Ready to apologize for taking her through it. Like, well here we tried this thing, it was an experience, but it wasn't what we expected. Nope, just the opposite. She had the time of her life. She would love to get one, though she acknowledges that I would be the one who would need to ride most often, so it should be what I want. So it isn't a fight between us. Just that we don't want to disappoint each other.

Now what do I do?

Can I get used to riding one of these? Will it be fun, like hoping on the scooter and going?

It probably didn't help, that the first model I rode was a Ryker which was a squirrel all over the road. Maybe I just hadn't recovered from that?

For me, it was the concern with turning. Is this thing going to tip over? Can I control it? Also, that it is wide, so it would take up the whole lane with less margin of error hitting either side.

I think I just didn't understand it, to have confidence in it. I take it that I could take it sharper on turns and it not throw us off or tip? I mean even in the parking lot I am screaming to go slower because wife is heading for curb, and I am not sure she can turn in time.

--------------------------------

Then, also it comes down to what we should get, if I do go with one of these and believe it can be fun for me. She didn't find the F3 comfortable, and certainly not the Ryker. RT was just right for her. So that is settled.

I don't think we will ever go touring on it. But the storage would be great for grocery runs, and our jaunts to the pickleball courts with gear. So the RT is overkill, but it could be useful. I doubt we would put more than 1K on it each year. We put 22K on Reflex in 23 years and I no longer need to commute to work.

With such low envisioned usage, I would tend to want to go with an older model, but I hear of all the repair concerns and lack of parts after 10 years. I don't want to end up with a large paper weight.

Money is not a concern. But I do like deals and to be frugal, though I realize I am not going to live forever, and money ends up somewhere. It is hard to swallow that one of these is going to cost me more than the SRT6 Crossfire I bought for $13,500 eight years ago with 12K on the Odometer. A lot of fun that likely cost me nothing because it would sell for same or more right now. But it is what it is.

Should I spend $20K for 2021 or $8 to $11K for a 2012 or earlier?
 
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Because of the parts issue I'd go with the 2021.

As for the handling, the first thing I would have done is check is the front tires, both for tread wear and if they are inflated correctly.

I bought my Spyder after taking a 3-wheel Basic Rider Course from the Motorcycle Safety Foundation. I know you're an experienced 2-wheel rider, but 3-wheels are different.

In my area it's a 5 hour online course (watching videos and answering questions), followed by 7-9 hours on a 3-wheel motorcycle they provide on a closed course, a CAN-AM Ryker in my case.

https://msf-usa.org/

Good luck! :D
 
Flying Boat, Definately the 2020+ RTL.
More room and comfort for 2-up riding, you will not regret it!

We have 41K miles on our 2020RTL riding 2-up 80% of the time in just over 4 years.
The more we use it, the more we enjoy it.

You will learn to guide it down the road, you DON'T steer it.
It is about the safest bike on the road, MHO!

Good Luck, Hope to see you on the back roads, :thumbup: Bill

"West Central Minnesota"
 
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I recently moved from a big Victory touring bike. My first couple months my neck hurt, my wrist ached and arms ache. It takes a bit to loosen up what we are used to on a 2-wheeler. For me, I have found position in lane is a big factor. The crown or wear pattern in a lane can cause the Spyder to dart, so for me I just sort of hit the middle of the lane and let the rear tire run down middle.
 
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Typical 1st ride after getting off 2 wheels. Same thing happened to me and most others. Took me 600~800 miles of riding most every day before I really started to settle in. But then I didn't have anyone to tell me to relax. You're knuckles are white because you're death gripping the handlebars. I did the same thing. Absolutely worst thing you can do. Makes things much worse. Relax, Relax, Relax is the key. From the fingertips to the chest. Hard to do in the beginning. But will work wonders.

I'm in the opposite neighborhood. I'd go for a well maintained older Spyder. Higher mileage doesn't bother me either. True, BRP has made a lot of improvements on the newer models. But the 998, if ridden as designed, is a worthy engine. The older Spyders last a long time and though some parts are a little harder to find. Most don't need parts. It's a bit tricker with service as some dealerships won't work on bikes over 10 years old. But if you can do your own maintenance, (recommended regardless of what year or model you get), things go pretty well.

I like the fact that you can get into the platform for well less than 1/2 the price to see if it is for you. For me, that tends to relax the transition. If you don't like it, you can get your money back out of it and move on. The older Spyders don't devalue that much because they've already lost much of the headroom the new ones tend to lose. And you don't have to worry so much about the first scratch or ding it might get. Then, if you like the Spyder, you will know a lot more about what you really want, and you can bump up to something newer.
 
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Spend the extra on the ‘21, FlyingBoat. The redesign for the ‘21 models is well worth it.

With regard to your white-knuckle ride, I can assure you that that was due to YOU not the Spyder. When I first rode one, I hopped off my Victory Vision and straight on to a Spyder F3. The salesman gave me zero input. When I reached the front gate of the dealership, I found myself turning INTO oncoming traffic, despite my wanting to head in the other direction. Yep, I was automatically counter-steering. That disappeared in the first half mile.

I also found the F3 accelerating slightly as it changed down each gear automatically as I slowed for a turn into a side street. I panicked at first, but once again, that feeling disappeared after a few times.

I found the Spyder wandering over the road, just like you. Once again, it was due to me over correcting the bars. That takes a little longer to overcome, but it disappears once you learn to relax your grip. Have you ever taken a houseboat for a drive with a single outboard at the rear? You will find yourself over correcting constantly, and zig zagging up the river until you loosen your grip.

You’ll find you won’t hit “either side” as you can see exactly where your front wheels are.

As for tipping over, it can be done, but only when you lose total control. I have only seen photos of some clown tipping it over when reversing too fast. I, personally, have never seen any instances of a Spyder tipping over when going forward (I’m sure it can be done, but I haven’t seen it in 10 years).

...and yes, they are fun. I have more fun on my ‘21 RT than I had on my 2-wheelers (especially as I age). Sure you miss leaning, but you can really punt these things through corners fast enough to put a huge grin on your face... and no more worries about whether someone has left some oil, gravel, or sand just around the next corner. You just ride straight through it, where you would be picking yourself up off the road on a two-wheeler.

Good luck with your decision making. :thumbup:

Pete
 
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The 2020 and newer are more comfortable and have the best power steering. So shop around I saw a 2020 RT Limited, Red for $17,000 today. The older Spyders are pretty good too, if you are looking to save a buck before you upgrade to a newer one at a later date.
 
CopperSpyder said:
The 2020 and newer are more comfortable and have the best power steering. So shop around I saw a 2020 RT Limited, Red for $17,000 today. The older Spyders are pretty good too, if you are looking to save a buck before you upgrade to a newer one at a later date.
Click to expand...

Thanks, where did you see the 2020 RT Limited Red?

I am considering a 2021 Sea to SKy for $20.6K 8K miles. Thanks.
 
FlyingBoat said:
I was thinking the same thing. Get into it cheap and see what I like. Then, besides the forums, I see Ads like this. A 2013 for 4K because parts aren't available to fix it. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1141442980247621/?ref=saved&referral_code=null
Click to expand...


The add clearly states that this is a "PARTS BIKE ONLY", not to be ridden, whatever that means.

Also this one here seems to be at a very good price in my opinion. I also prefer the 2020 and newer but that's just my opinion also.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?160418-2015-RT-Limited
 
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As others have stated, the riding experience is much different than any two wheeler that you are accustomed to. When I traded my 2017 Harley Ultra for a new 2020 RTL and then rode it home for 250 miles, my first thoughts were"what have I Done". It was really different ride than what I was use to. Every curve, I thought that I was being thrown off by the bike. Fast forward about 1000 miles and now I felt like I knew how to ride the beast. I have traded for a 2022 F3L SPL. which lets me sit down in the bike rather than on top of it. Ride feeling more like a two wheeler. Takes time and patience to appreciate the Spyder Ride.
 
K80Shooter said:
The add clearly states that this is a "PARTS BIKE ONLY", not to be ridden, whatever that means.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?160418-2015-RT-Limited
Click to expand...

Right, it is a parts bike because he can't get parts to fix it, so needs to part it out and take the loss.

Now, I suppose that one being a 2013 is at the end of the 998 period, so parts are not easily sourced.

Seems to me it is good to get a bike near the beginning of the model cycle, then parts may be more available at a later time. Though I realize bugs may not be as worked out.
 
Let me throw in my 2 cents as a "rookie" Spyder rider, a long time 2 wheel rider, and former Crossfire owner, not SRT-6 :^( how's that for qualifications?

One difference with me is, I decided I wanted a Spyder a few years back, and I read a lot about them. This helped me build a mental picture of how they differed from a regular motorcycle. Prior to buying mine, I spent some time riding my motorcycle and imagining some of the differences. As an example, I practiced slowing and stopping with only the rear brake, and when I could, went around corners slow enough to minimize leaning, etc. Obviously, there was plenty that was impossible to duplicate, but I was trying to prepare my mind to unlearn things it had known for over 5 decades.

The Spyder I went to look at, and ended up purchasing was a 2-hour drive away. On the very first corner of the test ride, I got a nice hit of adrenaline as I started the turn and the Spyder ever so slightly shifted to the outside, instead of leaning slightly into the curve. Ok, that was exciting, so as I continued my ride around the block, now more prepared, I really concentrating on how the Spyder felt, not how I expected it to feel, and it quickly felt much better. Well, the 2-hour ride home was quite tense, as I had many of the same sensations you did. There's a lot of traffic on 303 and 60, which didn't help. Instead of having a whole lane to move around in, I felt like I was riding something 8 feet wide, and where I had the most trouble were the gentle S curves with changing road camber where on a 2-wheel bike, a slight shift in weight or looking through the curves made the bike follow naturally. Now, I needed to give specific handlebar input while keeping the massively wide front track between the lines all while feeling I was leaning the wrong way. I was also feeling lateral forces that I've never experienced before while straddling a bike. Again, these forces on a 2 wheeled motorcycle would not be felt because the bike ever so slightly pivots, to translate them to downward forces. You either slightly lean with them, or you remain slight loose at the hips. After doing this for so many decades, it's a sensation I never even thought about. Interestingly enough, that very same sensation was unnerving to my wife when she first started riding with me years ago. So, what I had to do is to tell myself to trust the bike, that the sensations were new, and that didn't mean they were dangerous, just different. I did find the Spyder to be quite jittery, feeling almost like I was being buffeted at freeway speed, but once I relaxed some, trusted the bike, and stopped trying to make it behave as I expected, I started to feel better. I found the Spyder wasn't the uncontrollable bucking bronco it first felt like, and I started gaining my confidence and enjoying the ride.

Over the next two weeks, I made a point of going on short rides around town. I stopped comparing the Spyder to a motorcycle, and I started learning how the Spyder felt as its own entity as I rode. Within a few days it started feeling natural. I live out in the country off a two-lane highway that heads into town and in those 8 miles are 5 roundabouts, perfect for practicing and learning how the Spyder feels in curves. I live west of you, just off 89 after it peels off 93 and heads North to Prescott. The ridge leading to Yarnell is just north of me, and this is where I went next, to practice on the wonderful curves going up to Yarnell, and back down. It wasn't long before I was leaning into the curves and really enjoying the stability and traction the Spyder provides. These are the kinds of roads I loved in my Crossfire, even more than on my motorcycle. I sold the Crossfire in 2020, I have missed it ever since, and I came home from that spirited ride in the twisties, feeling just like I did in the car. I've never been a knee dragger on a bike, and as I got older, I worried more and more about taking corners "fast," losing traction, and going down. Now here I was, having the same kind of fun on the Spyder as I did in the Crossfire, and at the same time having the open air feeling of a motorcycle. I love the thing. I call it my Three Wheel, European Luxury Sports car. Only thing missing is air conditioning. Ironically, my Crossfire was a very similar red to the Spyder.

Even with practice and experience, the Spyder still felt squirrely or darty. After some research, I began to suspect it was an alignment problem. A close look at the front tire wear added to my suspicion. Both front tires had a little more inside wear (they're original with 16k on them) After a bunch of research, I decided to grab a couple straight edges, a measuring tape, and a couple other items and checked the alignment. Sure enough, it had quite a bit of toe-out. I adjusted it as best I could, and the bike tracks much better. I'm going to take my time and check it again, and this winter, I might take it in for a laser alignment. Ride Now! in Surprise supposedly does laser alignment, although I haven't verified it yet.

I purchased the Spyder used in the end of June, and absolutely love the thing. It wasn't long before it no longer felt 8 feet wide, and riding it feels natural. With summer temps, I haven't gone on long rides yet, but I try to take it out for around an hour around sunset. I love the traction and stability, and I love coming to a stop without putting my feet down - and reverse! Ohhh, I love reverse, and a parking brake is awesome too! I came from a Harley Ultra Classic touring bike, where my wife pulling on the rear luggage rack was my reverse, and God help me if my foot slipped on gravel when stopped. The Spyder RTL gives me the protection and comfort of the Big Harley, without the worry of gravity ruining my fun. I can't imagine going back to two wheels, and in many ways, I have my Crossfire back again too.

FYI: My sig picture is at the lookout on Granite Mt near Yarnell taken on one of my sunset rides.

You'll find most will recommend you give the Spyder time and miles. I like to add, don't go into it trying to compare it to anything else. Take it for what it is. This is why people who ride them who've never ridden a motorcycle seem to take to them more easily. They have nothing to compare them too. It's all new. Like a little kid learning to walk, take it in steps, practice, and don't get stuck trying to compare walking on two legs to crawling.

Finally, the reality is, Spyders aren't for everyone. This forum doesn't represent buyers who bought one, didn't like it, sold it, and never looked back, so you won't find much from that point of view.
 
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It's a almost 5 year old bike so that's 4-5 thousand miles a year. The Spyders will go way more than 150,000 miles on the 1330 engine.
 
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You are doomed, you will never achieve the control you need to feel comfy.

Get yourself another 2-wheeler and your wife a Spyder.

Ride together, everybody wins.
 
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I would get a 2020 or newer if you can. See if you can find a left over 2023. You get a new warranty and not something you know nothing about. You will not be sorry if you get an RT or RTL, they are great. Just take your time to learn how it handles. If possible, find out from your dealer if there is a BDP ride course in your area. I bet that if you get one there, will be more miles put on it than you think! The only other thing will be how to decide who is in the driver's seat!? I hope you like being a passenger...
 
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24k is still low miles on these modern machines. When I was first riding in the late 60s and early 70s, it seemed like 30k was high miles on a bike. Today with modern bikes especially the larger ones, you can expect well over 100 - 150k. When I sold my '03 Harley Ultra, it had 100k on the motor, it didn't use any oil, and ran great. I wouldn't have hesitated jumping on the bike and crossing the US on it. Good maintenance is the key. I bought my 2020 RTL with 16k on the clock and am hoping to get at least a decade of riding out of the bike. I might wear out before the bike, especially since I'm not a long distance tourer. In fact my wife and I are looking at this Spyder as likely the last bike I'll ever own and I hope it'll let me ride until I can't ride any more.
 
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