Whether or not to Juicebox...

[Spyder Tony]

I am hoping for some feedback from those out there who have (or had) Juicebox. I have read the threads and posts regarding the subject, but still didn't see what I am looking for. I have a 2013 Spyder ST Ltd (13,000 miles) and am currently getting 30 mpg. I have been toying with the idea of installing a Juicebox Pro. I know that there are no maps currently for the 2013 ST, but I figure i'll play with some custom maps. What I am wondering is, for those who have (or had) one...what was your mpg before AND after the juicebox. I have seen a plethora of posts listing owners' mpg after installing, but it is not a good frame of reference for me if I don't know what kind of mpg they were getting prior to installing the Juicebox. From what I gather, I am guessing at losing approximately 4 mpg (30 down to 26), but have no idea f this is accurate. I know there are those of you out there that believe the Spyder is fast enough as is...but it would be helpful for me if anyone can list their pros & cons with their Juicebox experience. I have seen the YouTube install on the Can Am, and it looks pretty straightforward, but I am worried about any unforseen "anomalies" with the Spyder after hooking up & using the Juicebox. I'm hoping to base my decision on the feedback received. Thanks in advance for the comments :bowdown:

 

[Flanker]

Have you talked directly with Two Brothers yet? If not you should.................they've been very helpful and responsive to any questions I've had in regards to the JBP. I like mine; NP with it. I initially went with the baseline #2 setting (recommended by TBR Tech Support); which is for a single can TBR slip on with a stock air filter (I've got a K & N air filter in mine). Mind you the printed instructions listed this setting for 2008-1010 Spyders, and mine is a 2012. Anyway...................mine ran fine; stuck with the baseline #2 for a bit, then as it seemed a bit rich to me (exhaust sound under vigorous acceleration), I leaned out the low and mid range circuits by 10%. The Spyder accelerated a bit harder (seat of the pants dyno) and burbled a bit less. Call TBR Tech Support and tell them what you've got, and what you want to do! You'll be glad you did! Good luck!

 

[Spyder Tony]

Thanks Flanker...

Have you talked directly with Two Brothers yet? If not you should.................they've been very helpful and responsive to any questions I've had in regards to the JBP. I like mine; NP with it. I initially went with the baseline #2 setting (recommended by TBR Tech Support); which is for a single can TBR slip on with a stock air filter (I've got a K & N air filter in mine). Mind you the printed instructions listed this setting for 2008-1010 Spyders, and mine is a 2012. Anyway...................mine ran fine; stuck with the baseline #2 for a bit, then as it seemed a bit rich to me (exhaust sound under vigorous acceleration), I leaned out the low and mid range circuits by 10%. The Spyder accelerated a bit harder (seat of the pants dyno) and burbled a bit less. Call TBR Tech Support and tell them what you've got, and what you want to do! You'll be glad you did! Good luck!

Thanks for the feedback Flanker. I will take your suggestion and call Two Bros. Good to hear that they are helpful with consumer questions.

A couple more questions for you, if you don't mind...

1) Did you install the JBP on your Spyder yourself (as opposed to buying your Spyder with it already on)?

2) If so, do you know what kind of MPG you were getting before the install as opposed to after putting on the JBP?

 

[ARCTIC]

What are you really going to gain?
I doubt you'll ever increase mileage enough to pay for the JB.
You're adding an extra electronic component that could fail. You're flirting with voiding your warranty. Performance gains will be minimal and possibly not even noticeable unless you frequently drag race with your buddies.

 

[Flanker]

I put it on myself; I'm no mechanic. but I've had a lot of back yard wrench twirling experience over the years. The JBP is no more complicated than plugging in a toaster; there's just more plugs. No cutting of the stock wiring at all; I did remove a fair bit of the body work to give myself unfettered access to the injectors, and throttle position sensor wire. You can watch the JBP install video at TBR's web site; BE ADVISED the location the TBR video tech lays the JBP is for instructional purposes only, and NOT where it should actually be installed (several potential locations.....................just not there). Also, the guy in the install video did not take off any where near the amount of body work I think is necessary; to make plugging in the JBP components easy. If you're not familiar with this type of thing..............taking off more body so you can locate and easily see and access the stock components makes for a much easier project (except for taking off and putting back on the body work). The pictures with text instructions that come with the JBP are pretty easy to understand, and give a much better idea of how the actual install should go. I had to trim a plastic cover with a hack saw blade, so it would clear the JBP control module (nothing is visible with the body work in place). The JBP comes with four preloaded maps, and there are a number of empty slots in it available for somebody else's maps, or ones you develop with the included software/USB cable. I didn't mess with any of that. Which map you use is selectable with a small recessed rheostat knob, and you can lean or richen low, mid, and high rev range fuel delivery in 10% increments (also by recessed rheostats). I've only checked my mileage once and it was a hair over 32 MPG (it might be a bit higher now as I've leaned the low and mid range JBP circuits out by 10%). Send me a PM with your e mail if you like; I'll send you a pic of where I installed my control module (though not the other bits underneath the body). Artic is correct that any (if any) fuel savings are not cost effective if that's your aim. Doing so might cause warranty issues with your dealer. My dealer told me they've installed several JBPs with TBR slip ons on other customers bikes; and they have no warranty issues with the aftermarket gear (but that's my dealer's attitude). I respectfully disagree with Artic on the performance gain. The K&N filter, JBP, and TBR slip on combo have given me noticeable and substantial HP and torque increases across my rev range. I'm very pleased with them.

 

[joet82]

the biggest question is, what other aftermarket parts to you have on?

if you are still stock, you don't need it. if you have just the exhaust, you don't need it. the only time you really should have one on is if you've replaced both the airbox (more free flowing filter) and the exhaust.

otherwise you don't need one, imo.

 

[Spyder Tony]

What are you really going to gain?
I doubt you'll ever increase mileage enough to pay for the JB.
You're adding an extra electronic component that could fail. You're flirting with voiding your warranty. Performance gains will be minimal and possibly not even noticeable unless you frequently drag race with your buddies.

Hi Arctic;
The gain would be performance/speed. The JBP would not increase mileage, in fact, it would decrease it...which is why I am asking how much the mileage decrease would be. I agree with the adding of an additional component which could fail, and that it could possibly void my warranty...which is precisely why I opened up the thread. I want to know the pros and cons of installing such a device. Based on the feedback, i'll make my decision. I found this site to be very helpful when shopping prior to buying my Spyder, so am looking for the same kind of help in relation to the JBP. You also bring up a solid point about the amount of performance gain...if it is minimal, the risk may outweigh the gain.

I look forward to more feedback from others as well. Thanks for your thoughts Arctic!!!

 

[Spyder Tony]

Thanks Joet82 and Flanker...

Thanks for the additional input Flanker. you gave me great insight into what to expect. Also..the install vids make it look almost too easy, so it's good to know that I shouldn't mount it in the location shown in the video.

Joet82...You bring up a good point. I wanted to do something a bit different and retain the stock exhaust, yet run a differnt air filter (K&N) and the JBP. My reasons for keeping the stock muffler are as follows:

1) I don't want a really loud and throaty muffler as I leave for work early in the morning and don't want the neighbors hating me.

2) I like the chrome accents (muffler guards) that come with the stock muffler.

3) I have side saddlebags and after reading the various threads, I have learned that my choice of muffler may be quite limited.

I'm interested to know if either of you have ever heard of a Spyder owner running the JBP with the stock exhaust and high performance air filter? May sound silly to some, but this is as much a commuter bike for my 7 year old and I as it is my "weekend racer".

 

[NancysToy]

Hi Arctic;
The gain would be performance/speed. The JBP would not increase mileage, in fact, it would decrease it...which is why I am asking how much the mileage decrease would be. I agree with the adding of an additional component which could fail, and that it could possibly void my warranty...which is precisely why I opened up the thread. I want to know the pros and cons of installing such a device. Based on the feedback, i'll make my decision. I found this site to be very helpful when shopping prior to buying my Spyder, so am looking for the same kind of help in relation to the JBP. You also bring up a solid point about the amount of performance gain...if it is minimal, the risk may outweigh the gain.

I look forward to more feedback from others as well. Thanks for your thoughts Arctic!!!

Without exhaust and or intake/camshaft modifications to flow more fuel/air, there will be no performance increase to speak of. More fuel (Juicebox function) is only needed if you can move more air/fuel mix or pack more into the cylinder. Reducing the air/fuel ratio might be marginally helpful in an EPA lean engine, but it mostly just wastes fuel. An optimal air/fuel ratio can only increase performance if you can get more of it in and out of the cylinder.

 

[arntufun]

I run the JB, 02 mod and a performance filter and average about 22-25 mpg depending on my driving style that day.

With that said............. IMO if you intend on keeping the stock exhaust, it's pointless for you to purchase the JB. Waste of money bro, no gains and a possible rich mixture because your not getting more flow threw a performance exhaust..............:thumbup:

 

[Spyder Tony]

I run the JB, 02 mod and a performance filter and average about 22-25 mpg depending on my driving style that day.

With that said............. IMO if you intend on keeping the stock exhaust, it's pointless for you to purchase the JB. Waste of money bro, no gains and a possible rich mixture because your not getting more flow threw a performance exhaust..............:thumbup:

Thanks for the MPG info as well as the rest. I'm deciding to keep the stock setup for now, but i'll be revisiting the idea when my son is a bit older. He's still young and prone to burning himself on the exhaust...which is why I liked the idea of the factory exhaust guards that came with my bike. Are there exhaust guards for Two Bros (or the other high perf exhausts)? Also, is anyone running their hi perf exhaust with saddlebags on their bike? It is my understanding that only certain exhausts will work with the saddlebag setup.