Where is the "J" marking on a 2014 RTL front wheel ?

[teninospyder]

In the past I have read "most" of the discussions on tires and rims, and now I have found a local tire shop that will install and balance "auto" tires on my front rims IF I can show him they say they are "J" rims directly on them somewhere/somehow. He says in the past (could be years) this has come up, and he saw at that time where the rims said use motorcycle tires only, which is why they didn't do it on those.

I initially stopped in to ask if he could balance my existing wheels/tires or not. He was very nice to me and said he could do that - depending on the center hole size - and then we had the discussion about mounting new auto tires on a Spyder.

So.........can anyone tell me where/how to show him these are "J" rims, and does anyone know off hand the center hole size ?? ray: ray:

PS: I thought of another good reason for car tires on the fronts, which I don't remember seeing in any discussions - might have just missed it though. Anyway...getting non-direction tires...it would allow you to rotate the 2 fronts without taking the tires off the rims :yes:

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Read through this thread, if you haven't seen it yet, and see if it helps. The "J" may actually be on the tire itself. Shops typically don't have an issue with the fronts, though.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?111467-Spyder-wheel-controversy-PROOF-IMHO

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

"J" type wheel / rim

In the past I have read "most" of the discussions on tires and rims, and now I have found a local tire shop that will install and balance "auto" tires on my front rims IF I can show him they say they are "J" rims directly on them somewhere/somehow. He says in the past (could be years) this has come up, and he saw at that time where the rims said use motorcycle tires only, which is why they didn't do it on those.

I initially stopped in to ask if he could balance my existing wheels/tires or not. He was very nice to me and said he could do that - depending on the center hole size - and then we had the discussion about mounting new auto tires on a Spyder.

So.........can anyone tell me where/how to show him these are "J" rims, and does anyone know off hand the center hole size ?? ray: ray:

PS: I thought of another good reason for car tires on the fronts, which I don't remember seeing in any discussions - might have just missed it though. Anyway...getting non-direction tires...it would allow you to rotate the 2 fronts without taking the tires off the rims :yes:

I'm the one who started that thread, I now have the 14 RT same as you .... I just checked the inside of my spare wheels ( OEM silver ) it states the wheel is " DOT M1 " this is just another designation for a " J " type wheel. According to DOT regs ..... The wheels that were on my 2011 RSS were stamped " J" type rim, the type of wheels BRP is using hasn't changed from day one .... their supplier has though ....... Mike :thumbup: ......... Have your dealer look closely at any Spyder Kenda tire .........it states very clearly that the Kenda MUST be used with a " J " designated wheel ....... They are just screwing with you ...IMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[teninospyder]

Thanks Mike

I'm the one who started that thread, I now have the 14 RT same as you .... I just checked the inside of my spare wheels ( OEM silver ) it states the wheel is " DOT M1 " this is just another designation for a " J " type wheel. According to DOT regs ..... The wheels that were on my 2011 RSS were stamped " J" type rim, the type of wheels BRP is using hasn't changed from day one .... their supplier has though ....... Mike :thumbup: ......... Have your dealer look closely at any Spyder Kenda tire .........it states very clearly that the Kenda MUST be used with a " J " designated wheel ....... They are just screwing with you ...IMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

Got it :yes:
Any info on the hub opening size for balancing equipment needs ? ray:

 

[Peteoz]

Read through this thread, if you haven't seen it yet, and see if it helps. The "J" may actually be on the tire itself. Shops typically don't have an issue with the fronts, though.

Tyre shops don’t usually have an issue with the backs either, Snowbelt. It’s just the wheel remove and replace that causes the problem. I always buy my tyres through my local tyre shop to give them the business, and they never have an issuedoing whatever I want. They might be a few bucks more expensive than buying online, but I find those extra few bucks are soon affrayed by the service you receive.

Pete

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

balance with ceramic beads

https://www.amazon.com/Z-Tire-Beads...6528013&sr=8-13&keywords=tire+balancing+beads
All this talk about balancing tires or whether our tires fit on the balance machine. Throw 4oz in the front or 6 oz in the rear and be done with it. Perfect balance for just a couple dollars.
When the tire is being mounted throw the beads in and forget it.
Reusable as well?
Dennis

 

[Peter Aawen]

Tenino, I'd be just a little concerned about this tire bloke, after all, it's HIS BUSINESS to know which tires he is allowed to fit onto what type of rims, AND where the necessary identification markings are meant to be, so he shouldn't need (or want!) you to show him where this info is, HE should be showing YOU!! Especially if he has any reason to doubt or be concerned about what you are asking him to do!! :lecturef_smilie:

And btw, all the necessary info is going to be cast or stamped indelibly into the rim, usually on the inside of the tire-well near the valve hole for steel rims, so that it cannot be missed by a tire fitter installing a new tire & valve onto the rim; or it'll be on the inner/brake side of one of the 'spokes' on alloy wheels, altho some rim manufacturers do vary where they put it - but it WILL be there somewhere on a DOT Approved rim!

So I'd suggest that you've gotta worry just a little about a tire outlet that doesn't KNOW the rules that apply to what tires they are allowed to fit onto which type of rims..... a Spyder Dealer who only sells & fits approved spares, you MIGHT just excuse & let them get away with relying on the manufacturer providing appropriately approved & legal parts.... 'MIGHT' that is, cos it's not necessarily their core business, even if you'd hope they were a little more aware of the legal & safety requirements for all aspects of what they do.... But an AfterMarket Tire Outlet, who's very business is based upon them fitting non-genuine tires onto a variety of vehicle rims, potentially including a variety of aftermarket rims, and who is frequently the prime source of info that many owners go to in order to know what tire & rim combinations are safe & legal; surely a competent Tire Technician in such a business would MAKE SURE they know the very fundamental basis of the legalities & liabilities associated with safely & legally carrying out their core business.... :shocked:

Here in Australia, all our Tire Resellers MUST have access to & know this sort of stuff in order to carry out their business, and they have a bible to work with, the Australia Tyre & Rim Association Handbook, which spells all this out clearly so that if there is ever any question, the Re-seller can refer to the bible & confirm the legality or otherwise of what a customer may be asking them to do!! And I doubt that any competent Australian Tyre Outlet has ever questioned the legality of fitting a normal 'Passenger Car Tyre' onto a Spyder Rim, even if they may have had concerns about their equipment & its capability to handle the centre hub hole etc, simply because they can check out & match the markings on the rim & on the tire and confirm (or reject) the legality & safety of what they are being asked to do!! hyea:

And another btw, the most frequent place for mismatched rims & tires to explosively part company & cause potentially grave injuries to anyone nearby is during the initial fitting process!! So IF it was unsafe to fit a car tire onto a Spyder Rim (& it isn't, no more than fitting any other Passenger tire onto any other Passenger Rim!) then I reckon we would've heard about it by now, given the number of Spyders sold & running non-OE Tires!! But we haven't heard anything like that, have we?!?

 

[Ccol]

Hi guys.... This is on the front sidewall on the OM Kenda tyre on my 2017 F3s Daytona....Standard Rim:5.0 J ...
I'm thinking that means a Standard Rim with a "J" profile....5.0 inches wide ...:dontknow:

 

[teninospyder]

Yes. I saw this last night too after Bluenights posts

Don't know about that being the width, but makes sense and looks about right.

 

[Bob Denman]

Mike,
Once again: Thanks for doing the heavy-lifting on this issue! :clap:

Now, we know that "M1", and "J" rims are the same! :thumbup:

 

[teninospyder]

In defense of the tire guy

Tenino, I'd be just a little concerned about this tire bloke, after all, it's HIS BUSINESS to know which tires he is allowed to fit onto what type of rims, AND where the necessary identification markings are meant to be, so he shouldn't need (or want!) you to show him where this info is, HE should be showing YOU!! Especially if he has any reason to doubt or be concerned about what you are asking him to do!! :lecturef_smilie:

And btw, all the necessary info is going to be cast or stamped indelibly into the rim, usually on the inside of the tire-well near the valve hole for steel rims, so that it cannot be missed by a tire fitter installing a new tire & valve onto the rim; or it'll be on the inner/brake side of one of the 'spokes' on alloy wheels, altho some rim manufacturers do vary where they put it - but it WILL be there somewhere on a DOT Approved rim!

So I'd suggest that you've gotta worry just a little about a tire outlet that doesn't KNOW the rules that apply to what tires they are allowed to fit onto which type of rims..... a Spyder Dealer who only sells & fits approved spares, you MIGHT just excuse & let them get away with relying on the manufacturer providing appropriately approved & legal parts.... 'MIGHT' that is, cos it's not necessarily their core business, even if you'd hope they were a little more aware of the legal & safety requirements for all aspects of what they do.... But an AfterMarket Tire Outlet, who's very business is based upon them fitting non-genuine tires onto a variety of vehicle rims, potentially including a variety of aftermarket rims, and who is frequently the prime source of info that many owners go to in order to know what tire & rim combinations are safe & legal; surely a competent Tire Technician in such a business would MAKE SURE they know the very fundamental basis of the legalities & liabilities associated with safely & legally carrying out their core business.... :shocked:

Here in Australia, all our Tire Resellers MUST have access to & know this sort of stuff in order to carry out their business, and they have a bible to work with, the Australia Tyre & Rim Association Handbook, which spells all this out clearly so that if there is ever any question, the Re-seller can refer to the bible & confirm the legality or otherwise of what a customer may be asking them to do!! And I doubt that any competent Australian Tyre Outlet has ever questioned the legality of fitting a normal 'Passenger Car Tyre' onto a Spyder Rim, even if they may have had concerns about their equipment & its capability to handle the centre hub hole etc, simply because they can check out & match the markings on the rim & on the tire and confirm (or reject) the legality & safety of what they are being asked to do!! hyea:

And another btw, the most frequent place for mismatched rims & tires to explosively part company & cause potentially grave injuries to anyone nearby is during the initial fitting process!! So IF it was unsafe to fit a car tire onto a Spyder Rim (& it isn't, no more than fitting any other Passenger tire onto any other Passenger Rim!) then I reckon we would've heard about it by now, given the number of Spyders sold & running non-OE Tires!! But we haven't heard anything like that, have we?!?

Peter:
I'm thinking I might have written my info in a way it could be mis-interpreted by others and if so I apologize.
To clarify, in no way did this individual leave me with the feeling he didn't know what he was talking about or that he was an expert on all Spyder wheels. He is not a motorcycle shop or rider guy and in trying to help me he merely mentioned that in the past (some time ago - maybe 7 years or even earlier) he had run into this request and had turned it down because he had no reason to know up front that the wheels were OK for car tires and neither did the Spyder owner. Not being there, I don't know what that conversation fully entailed. He was familiar with the "J" classification and said if I could show him that marking on these wheels, we would be good to go. Seems reasonable to me, seeing as admittedly I'm sure he hasn't gotten this request very often - if at all - recently.

I do appreciate your input and hope I'm not upsetting you with this response.

 

[BajaRon]

PS: I thought of another good reason for car tires on the fronts, which I don't remember seeing in any discussions - might have just missed it though. Anyway...getting non-direction tires...it would allow you to rotate the 2 fronts without taking the tires off the rims :yes:

Directional tires are almost always designed around enhanced water shedding which increases wet traction. The greatest threat to losing traction on the Spyder (especially the rear) is hydroplaning. It is very important to get a car tire with excellent wet traction characteristics. This usually means a directional tire.

The front end of a Spyder is so light that, as long as your alignment and balance are good, the front tires should wear evenly and last a long time without rotation. The potential for a few more miles out of a tire is not worth sacrificing wet traction, in my opinion.

 

[Peter Aawen]

......

I do appreciate your input and hope I'm not upsetting you with this response.

Not upset at all, Tenino, altho I do appreciate your expression of concern. :thumbup:

And I do hope that you likewise, aren't upset by my earlier post or the reiteration here that if he is a professional tire tech for ANY type of vehicle, it still comes back to being HIS business to know where to look for the J or any other info on the rim and the tire AND TO CHECK the tire & the rim before mounting that tire on your rim - he really shouldn't be asking you, altho maybe he was in a round-about way suggesting that he knew & would check anyway.... as he should! But I wasn't there, so I really don't know how he said it or exactly what he said, but I do hope that he left you firm in the knowledge that he KNEW what sort of tire was allowed to go on what rim & that he knew were to find that info on the Spyder Rim & any tire you wanted to put on it. If he did that, then all is well with the world & you shouldn't have any concerns about your new tires being fitted & mounted to your rims & everything being cared for properly hyea: But if not, then maybe you might want to reconsider getting him to do anything to your tires & rims?! :shocked:

 

[rays hell]

Rotation

In the past I have read "most" of the discussions on tires and rims, and now I have found a local tire shop that will install and balance "auto" tires on my front rims IF I can show him they say they are "J" rims directly on them somewhere/somehow. He says in the past (could be years) this has come up, and he saw at that time where the rims said use motorcycle tires only, which is why they didn't do it on those.

I initially stopped in to ask if he could balance my existing wheels/tires or not. He was very nice to me and said he could do that - depending on the center hole size - and then we had the discussion about mounting new auto tires on a Spyder.

So.........can anyone tell me where/how to show him these are "J" rims, and does anyone know off hand the center hole size ?? ray: ray:

PS: I thought of another good reason for car tires on the fronts, which I don't remember seeing in any discussions - might have just missed it though. Anyway...getting non-direction tires...it would allow you to rotate the 2 fronts without taking the tires off the rims :yes:

I've always heard it's not a good idea to swap tires left and right, directional or not.
Unless you were to dismount and remount the tires.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

WELLLLLLL NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT

Mike,
Once again: Thanks for doing the heavy-lifting on this issue! :clap:

Now, we know that "M1", and "J" rims are the same! :thumbup:

.... Not the SAME - if they were they wouldn't be marked " M1 " ..... however my understanding is, they are essentially EQUAL in the rim dimensions to be an either - or classification ........ BRP changes suppliers according to " cost to produce an item " as it relates to the Bean counters at BRP.....why the older rims were marked " J " and the newer are marked " M1 " is only something BRP can answer ( good luck with that :roflblack::roflblack: ) ........... hope this clarifies things .......Mike :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

They're "Close enough for Government work": that's what matters! :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

https://www.amazon.com/Z-Tire-Beads...6528013&sr=8-13&keywords=tire+balancing+beads
All this talk about balancing tires or whether our tires fit on the balance machine. Throw 4oz in the front or 6 oz in the rear and be done with it. Perfect balance for just a couple dollars.
When the tire is being mounted throw the beads in and forget it.
Reusable as well?
Dennis

Of the many tires I have dismounted with beads in them, the vast majority are clumped and CAUSING the imbalance. The slightest bit of moisture or tire lube on the rim and they are useless. We DO NOT recommend balancing beads in Spyder tires.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: I'm sure that there are lots of poor quality tires out there; but I just haven't seen the need. :thumbup:

 

[crw]

j rating

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/how-to-read-the-wheel-markings


this is a link on the j rating

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

Wondered about that

Thanks, I wondered if the inside of the tires could produce moisture from the rims heating and cooling. I have only done this s couple of times and each time I forgot they were in the tire. They make a bit of a mess on the shop floor when you pull the tire.
Dennis

Of the many tires I have dismounted with beads in them, the vast majority are clumped and CAUSING the imbalance. The slightest bit of moisture or tire lube on the rim and they are useless. We DO NOT recommend balancing beads in Spyder tires.